Player Features and Ideas Discussion

i was going to point out that there was no point in arguing fits with this guy. that fit was linked earlier and was apparently a PL standard. he is the god of obscure fits that, in his mind, are great. we just cant figure out why hes so great

No, CCP can't quit "changing ships and equipment", it's required for a balanced game. The so called "nerfs" are never as serious, and never obsolete anything like people on the forums moan. The complaints and "GIEF SP BACK!!11 UNSUBBB" shouts come from players with very limited scope of experience and understanding of the game.

Haven't read whole thread, so only replying to opening post:


There are almost no skills in game which are useless. Each serves a certain purpose which might not be obvious to everyone at first glimpse, but with growing understanding of the game and mechanics people will start to know what each skill does.
Furthermore, because of rebalancing of certain aspects of the game - you mentioned upcoming BC changes - there is no necessity of refunding SP.
The SP will not be wasted on characters that have the skills related to the items being changed. They will, for most players, still be very valuable and essential for their gameplay, even if you don't think so.
Just because things like Heavy Missiles got changed in the past doesn't mean Heavy Missiles are useless now.

Refunding your skillpoints of already trained skills that are perfectly fine just because 'I don't like what I skilled there and I didn't recognize it before i spent several million of SP and therefore a few months worth of training time on their respective level 5' is really stupid. Because your argumentation bases on the statement that CCP changes everything and makes everything useless at some point in time and other things totally overpowered. Whic just isn't true. There will always be a fotm, but hopping from one to another by simply refunding your SP would result in a lot of characters with roughly 20m SP that just switch to the next fotm ship and skills and cry on forums a lot.

This would take away a lot of character development and ... it's just stupid.


However, I would like to see an exchange of skills implemented in the game, just like the Character Bazar.

Say, due to scientific progress in implantology and neuroscience it has become possible to extract certain memories of a capsuleers brain and transfer them into another capsuleers brain.

Sell a skill of yours for ISK.

Why, you ask?
Why i don't just buy a character from the Bazar?

Because maybe i'm pretty happy with the skills and/or name i have and don't want a new character at all, but improve my current one slightly. Like 'I really could use a Carrier, best with skill at 5, however i need it in 1 or 2 weeks and not in 3 months.'

Just find someone willing to sell his Carrier 5.

And to prevent people buying all the skills they need, limit it to one skill per transaction, and every transaction to require the use of an available neural remap.

This guy is pretty new, and seems to make the point in question.

Rephrasing his comment:
Newer players are able to compete with older players due to skills capping out, or not being pursued in favor of other directions by the older player.
Frequently, with ships not seen as important, training is stopped at prerequisite levels to move onto more desired skills.

This translates as: Flying cruiser or destroyer X, OlderPilot may not have all 5s in his skills for the ship or the weapons fitted. OlderPilot may have pushed for T2s early or bigger ships, so never went back.
He also never saw enough importance to delay training in other areas, since that would cost him TIME.

This idea allows OlderPilot to use no time, and dump skills he decided were later useless into these lower ships that he at least knows he will fly at some point.

He never needs to take TIME away from his priority in training to do this, which had blocked him till this respec.

This means the newer pilot must now face OlderPilot with all 5s in the ship, and probably it's weapons, where before he could have out specialized him and won.

No assumptions are being made regarding pilot skill here, I am simply pointing out how the advantage is being shifted distinctly into the older pilot's favor by this idea.

Being a Vet... I will say this:

It would be ******** for me to gimp myself and waste my respec simply to fight some noob. And yes no matter what skills I decided to remove in order to Fly the ship you sugest, i'd have to take skils out of stuff I use (unless they were the wasted SP, which I wouldnt have any because I would ahve already used my respec to put it into **** that was important to me, So Yea I'd have to gimp myself to do what you are suggesting. No being a vet, i already ahve 20 ships trained most likely that are equal or better then the one your suggesting I dump SP into

This entire post however is based on the assumption that an older player can and will always beat a newer one if he has the same ship trained. This simply isn't true.

Not only that but a vet has priorities of his own, and useing his one single respect that year, in order to beat a noob wont happen happen, and if it does well.... Then your vet was probably not a vet but a noob who bought a character.

Either way this supposition also assumes that a vast number of players will do this, This is also a false and illogical assumption. Your talking about maybe 5% of the player base.. Maybe. And since you only get 1 respec a year... I seriously doubt someone is going to gimp themselves for an entire year, simply so they can respec to fight a noob.

As with any change in game, SOMEONE will take advantage of it and abuse it, that is part of EvE. The Questions is, is it something only a few people will do or the entire Player base.

For this concern, your talking about a very small number of players who may do this. As the vast majority of people with High SP prefer to put it in things they need, rather then take a step back and put the SP in something they don't need and gimp themselves in the long run.

In addition, its their remap, I mean honestly the new player can do the same, granted he has to be more precise about it, But having this gives him an advantage he previously didn't have before.

Example:

A new player is mining all his SP is in Industry, He is continually Ganked, he gets fed up:

* With this system he can respec PvP style and fight back.
* Not feel helpless.


* Without this System he he will:

A. Get fed up and quit Eve. (As many do because of this exact situation)
B. Be helpless and unable to defend himself for weeks while he trains a decent pvp ship. (if he decides he'd rather have revenge and put up with the continuous ganks until he can... NOT your average "new" player)

Someone Posted that if you do ask for all your skill points back, you loss are your skill books and have to buy them all over again. Dude that alone makes me not want to ask for my skill points back. Just on capital books thats about 2 + bill that I rather have in my pocket. I don't see Vets gaining anything from a sp remap if you have to buy all the skill books back .

OK,

As a newb on my first account, I started as a gallente pilot.

I did not know that I could cross train, and I did not know which ships I preferred training for.

This was not my fault.
The training program for Eve (even after revamp) gives you very little knowledge in the game, and certainly doesn't give you experience with ships of other races.

So, as a no player you come into a game with an extreme learning cliff and are given the bear minimum of information, and are essentially FORCED to begin training strictly with one race because this is what the training program does.


So, I had trained hybrid weapons and gallente ships up to battleship class.

Though I'm now mostly a missile pilot, I have crossed trained to energy turrets, so while the support skills for turrets aren't useless for me, the skills put into gallente ships andhybrid weapons are useless to me.


Someone of course is going to argue that just because I don't use the skills doesn't make them useless.

Sure, for someone else, but for me they are useless. I do not like gallente ships, and I do not like hybrid weapons.

In the case of the tengu I used to have, assuming it gets nerfed, then it will lose the fact that it is the most effective missile focused lvl 4 mission runner in the game.

Players strive to have the best. We strive for efficiency in EVERYTHING we do. We want the best.
If the Raven was the best missile boat for missions, no one would fly the tengu in missions.

That said, the tengu IS the most effective missile boat for running lvl 4 missions even over the Golem.
This is due to the effectiveness of heavy missiles, the dps capability of the tengu, the tank, the velocity, and the size of the tengu.
While the Golem can get a lot more dps and use less missiles, it also has less range, less effective dps, a lot bigger target, slower, and there's no point in even moving cause you're not escaping any damage.

So, once players gain this knowledge they're going to strive to get into this ship.

This is not flavor of the month. This is using the most effective tool for the job.

Assuming the tengu gets nerfed it will no longer be the top runner for lvl 4 missions.
I as a mission runner have relied upon this ship, but if its capabilities are taken away by CCP, is it fair that I must suffer through it?

No, it's not. If CCP had balanced the ship properly in the first place, I would have probably put that SP into something else.

This is the case for many items in game.

There are players that have trained for titans specifically because they had an AoE doomsday.
So, when that was taken away, was it fair that they were left with something they didn't train for?
No, because had that ship been this way from the start, they may have trained for something else.


Even if you don't factor balance into a reason for allowing this, there's also profit and entertainment.

How you ask?

Well, it would be more profitable for CCP and more entertaining for players for the very same reason.

It is because players have a tendency to get bored of Eve from time to time. Even if they come back to the game, that's still money lost for however long that player is gone.

However, if that player were able to essentially swap his skill over to something else once a year, this would keep the players entertained because they could change it up and start flying a different race and/or class of ship, but still retain their skill lvl.
This means they stay in the game longer and don't get bored near as often.

This translates to money for CCP, and we all know that if you want to see CCP's favorite things about Eve, then you need to follow the money...

So you failed to do your research, trained ships you dont like and now want respec because you are dumb. That is fine, perfectly fine. But they cant enable them just for you. And there are ppl who play this game and dont suck. Part of them will be pissed, and the other part will just abuse it.

You cant really expect them to enable feature just based on the fact that some ppl suck. If you dont like your char you can always sell it and get another on the bazaar.

I use Vulcun 220 2's there is no smaller guns. Vulcan is the lowest class of Gun on a cane and is generally Standard fit weapon type for vet cane pilots. Due to the massive tracking and rate of fire.

It's good to see you back in the habit of trolling Mag's.

It's been a while since I've seen you contribute absolutely nothing to an argument but mearly disagree for the shear sake of disagreeing.

Apostrof Ahashion -

This is a game.. If I wanted to do research before beginning something I would have joined a science club.

I began playing Eve because it looked entertaining.

If you try and tell me that you did large amounts of research (which would be required) on Eve to understand which race you wanted to be, what you watned to do, and what ships you wanted to fly, then I will slap you and call you a liar.

No one, AND I MEAN NO ONE, has EVER come into Eve with an extreme knowledge of being in Eve.

Everyone started out with little to no knowledge of anything unless they had a friend tell/show them a few things that helped them decide which race they were going to be.

However, even then, many of those players have crossed trained into things they find more entertaining or have gotten involved in activities they didn't know they would like.

WE ALL have SP we don't use, and we all would love to be able to change things up for a while.

SP reallocation once a year would allow us to do this and would not give us any more sp or capabilities than we already had.

If I had maxed out skills with a Golem, but was getting bored with it and reallocated to be maxed out with a Paladin, well, I still have the same amount of SP and capability, only with a little change in flavor and without having to wait another year to do so.

It saves me time, allows more enjoyment out of the game, and makes CCP more money because I stick around longer and/or buy plexes to sell for my new ship.