These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Skill reallocation Option needs to finally be added and why
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#361 - 2013-01-16 02:13:18 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Astroniomix wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Astroniomix wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:


Most people do not fly a ship because it is the best, they fly a ship because they like it.

I sure as hell don't fly the best ship. I fly the one I fly because I like the way it handles and it fits my playstyle.


Therefore your proposal is not needed.
/thread.


My proposal does not deal soley with Nerfs and Game changes either.

It also deals with:

* New player opportunities and the Learning Curve

* Unused skills which are years old.

* Streamlining the skillsystem so it is less complicated.

* Making Eve more about the game play, then about What You have trained and what you don't. Right now because of the limited structure of the Skill System, you get in Eve and your only focus is to "Train skills".

I want to shift this focus from "Train Skills" to "Play Game". Allowing people to respec their skills lets them focus more on having Fun, then worrying about how they fapped up by training Mining when they figured out they wanted to pvp instead, and now have to worry about training basic pvp skills rather then simply transferring the SP and then going off to have fun while training other skills they need for pvp..

A week old noob can pvp. Your proposal does not fix anything because there is no problem.


A vast number of Noobs would disagree with you, especially those who have left the game after a week of playing specifically because skill system is so unforgiving.

Being able to go from barely being able to mine to not being any better off at pvp than you were before you "re-speced" isn't going to help.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#362 - 2013-01-16 02:13:20 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
The distribution of SP from removed learning skills is hardly the same thing as being able to perpetually chase the FOTM every time CCP nerfs your favorite PWNMOBILE.

-Liang


Most people do not fly a ship because it is the best, they fly a ship because they like it.

I sure as hell don't fly the best ship. I fly the one I fly because I like the way it handles and it fits my playstyle.



https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2450950#post2450950

did u forget this post?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#363 - 2013-01-16 02:19:59 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
The distribution of SP from removed learning skills is hardly the same thing as being able to perpetually chase the FOTM every time CCP nerfs your favorite PWNMOBILE.

-Liang


Most people do not fly a ship because it is the best, they fly a ship because they like it.

I sure as hell don't fly the best ship. I fly the one I fly because I like the way it handles and it fits my playstyle.



https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2450950#post2450950

did u forget this post?


nope, but the Cane isn't what I would consider an FOTM ship, I flew the cane because:

1. Its sexy
2. Well Balanced (as a ship)
3. Fit my playstyle.

In my opinion an FOTM ship is something like the Tengu, which when fit right you need 10 people to kill the damn thing. and thats only a 2.5 bill fit which isn't unusual on a T3.

Thats an FOTM ship. In fact all t3 cruisers are FOTM.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#364 - 2013-01-16 02:35:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
but in that post ur saying ur no longer going to fly it. ur going to fly battleships instead u say.

has it become less sexy?...no. it will look the same
has it become un balanced?...no, it will pretty much do what it does now, but with one less neut
has it changed its playstyle?...no, it will behave the same as it does now but with one less neut

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#365 - 2013-01-16 03:11:02 UTC
Quote:
nope, but the Cane isn't what I would consider an FOTM ship, I flew the cane because...


And I suppose peoples' playstyles just radically shifted when Retribution came out, thus explaining why you see so fewer canes now. It had nothing to do with the nerf. Nothing at all.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#366 - 2013-01-16 03:23:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
Daichi Yamato wrote:
but in that post ur saying ur no longer going to fly it. ur going to fly battleships instead u say.

has it become less sexy?...no. it will look the same
has it become un balanced?...no, it will pretty much do what it does now, but with one less neut
has it changed its playstyle?...no, it will behave the same as it does now but with one less neut


It's become unbalanced and no longer fits my playstyle, yes.

It stopped fitting my play style when they nerfed the CPU and PG, taking the highslot off, reducing the shield, the armor and the hull, just makes sure I'll never get in one again. (Probably).

That reduced its utility, it's dps, and its tank, as well as made it slower (since they are adding mass to it next patch as well).
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#367 - 2013-01-16 03:25:50 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
nope, but the Cane isn't what I would consider an FOTM ship, I flew the cane because...


And I suppose peoples' playstyles just radically shifted when Retribution came out, thus explaining why you see so fewer canes now. It had nothing to do with the nerf. Nothing at all.


Actually yea, I do see less canes these days, I see more tengus and Legions, and more talos's now.
Apostrof Ahashion
Doomheim
#368 - 2013-01-16 06:55:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Apostrof Ahashion
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
but in that post ur saying ur no longer going to fly it. ur going to fly battleships instead u say.

has it become less sexy?...no. it will look the same
has it become un balanced?...no, it will pretty much do what it does now, but with one less neut
has it changed its playstyle?...no, it will behave the same as it does now but with one less neut


It's become unbalanced and no longer fits my playstyle, yes.

It stopped fitting my play style when they nerfed the CPU and PG, taking the highslot off, reducing the shield, the armor and the hull, just makes sure I'll never get in one again. (Probably).

That reduced its utility, it's dps, and its tank, as well as made it slower (since they are adding mass to it next patch as well).


Dear dumbass,

With AC fits you can still put anything you like on the cane, even after the pg nerf. With arty well you might need to train AWU a little. And that huge speed nerf is ~20m/s less when using mwd and shield tanking, ~5m/s less with afterburner, and about ~7m/s nerf when armor tanking. Not that it was hard to fire up EFT and add 300,000 mass to your cane with 200mm plates and check this yourself before bitching here. And Hurricane (if proposed bs changes goes live) is the only second tier bc that actually gained ehp. And you did lose one neut but so did the other bc.

So you see you still have skills for the best bc, no need to cry. Im really interested to see your fit for ac cane that you cant use anymore because they nerfed the pg.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#369 - 2013-01-16 07:09:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
Apostrof Ahashion wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
but in that post ur saying ur no longer going to fly it. ur going to fly battleships instead u say.

has it become less sexy?...no. it will look the same
has it become un balanced?...no, it will pretty much do what it does now, but with one less neut
has it changed its playstyle?...no, it will behave the same as it does now but with one less neut


It's become unbalanced and no longer fits my playstyle, yes.

It stopped fitting my play style when they nerfed the CPU and PG, taking the highslot off, reducing the shield, the armor and the hull, just makes sure I'll never get in one again. (Probably).

That reduced its utility, it's dps, and its tank, as well as made it slower (since they are adding mass to it next patch as well).


Dear dumbass,

With AC fits you can still put anything you like on the cane, even after the pg nerf. With arty well you might need to train AWU a little. And that huge speed nerf is ~20m/s less when using mwd and shield tanking, ~5m/s less with afterburner, and about ~7m/s nerf when armor tanking. Not that it was hard to fire up EFT and add 300,000 mass to your cane with 200mm plates and check this yourself before bitching here. And Hurricane (if proposed bs changes goes live) is the only second tier bc that actually gained ehp. And you did lose one neut but so did the other bc.

So you see you still have skills for the best bc, no need to cry. Im really interested to see your fit for ac cane that you cant use anymore because they nerfed the pg.


Dear Dumbass,

Putting AC rigs in the rigslots massively decreases your EFHP (by like 25%) whether shield or armor tanking.

Yea the cane is still fitable and flyable and will preform at a decent level, but no where near what it was, before the PG and CPU nerf., however My fit was my fit, and it fit me and my play style and worked fantastically, I can no longer use my fit or anything near it. So I'll pass.

Also the cane is no longer the best BC, and after this next Nerf bat it will be sub par.
Apostrof Ahashion
Doomheim
#370 - 2013-01-16 07:25:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Apostrof Ahashion
Dear dumbass,

it seems your reading is still not at decent level. Where did you read i said anything about ac rigs? Please post your fit and i will help you. Oh right you probably dont know how. Here you go, ac cane cookie cutter build:

[Hurricane, New Setup 1]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I

425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
Medium Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

And it fits with AWU 0. One neut less. Same damage. More EHP.

Terrible, just terrible. One neut less raped the hull, not good for anything now.
Lovely Dumplings
My Little Pony Appreciation Corporation
#371 - 2013-01-16 07:32:51 UTC
I'll support a "respec" under one condition: It falls under diminishing returns. First reallocation, 1 free SP costs two assigned SP. Next realloc you do, three points for one free. Carry on in such a fashion. You get your reassigned points, but chasing FOTM is going to hurt.

www.minerbumping.com
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#372 - 2013-01-16 08:24:49 UTC
Apostrof Ahashion wrote:
Dear dumbass,

it seems your reading is still not at decent level. Where did you read i said anything about ac rigs? Please post your fit and i will help you. Oh right you probably dont know how. Here you go, ac cane cookie cutter build:

[Hurricane, New Setup 1]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I

425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
Medium Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

And it fits with AWU 0. One neut less. Same damage. More EHP.

Terrible, just terrible. One neut less raped the hull, not good for anything now.


My fit had more DPS and a higher tank then that, Even my shield one, My armor one was way better then that also. I fought and killed plenty of canes with a fit similar to yours they didn't even make it through my shield (even when it was armor tanked).

Whats teh EFhp on that thing and the DPS? If it has less then 650 DPS and under 80k EFHP its not even close to my fits.


But were not here to debate cane fits, were here to discuss skill remaps
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#373 - 2013-01-16 08:41:47 UTC
Lovely Dumplings wrote:
I'll support a "respec" under one condition: It falls under diminishing returns. First reallocation, 1 free SP costs two assigned SP. Next realloc you do, three points for one free. Carry on in such a fashion. You get your reassigned points, but chasing FOTM is going to hurt.


Id be fine with that, Although CCP will probably give the newer players 2 free respecs like with Attributes. Then once a year afterwords.
Apostrof Ahashion
Doomheim
#374 - 2013-01-16 08:45:23 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:


My fit had more DPS and a higher tank then that, Even my shield one, My armor one was way better then that also. I fought and killed plenty of canes with a fit similar to yours they didn't even make it through my shield (even when it was armor tanked).

Whats teh EFhp on that thing and the DPS? If it has less then 650 DPS and under 80k EFHP its not even close to my fits.


But were not here to debate cane fits, were here to discuss skill remaps


Since you already said you dislike ac rigs, and adding one more gyrostab wont do you much good (especially since you need lows for armor tank) i dont really see how your fit could have "much more dps". As for shield fit, the only way for it to have more ehp is to drop propulsion and/or distruptor to free mid slot, and that you can do if you have a dedicated tackler. I tought that was obvious. This is after all, a cookie cutter build. Post your build and lets see what exactly did you lose.

I know this is not a discussion about that, but since the main reason in your argument for respecs is that "CCP is destroying ships they suck now i need my sp back" for the sake of that argument post your fit and we can see what exactly did you lose.
Apostrof Ahashion
Doomheim
#375 - 2013-01-16 09:05:08 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:

Id be fine with that, Although CCP will probably give the newer players 2 free respecs like with Attributes. Then once a year afterwords.


FFS, you still dont see how your "system" and respecs would magically create sp.


Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#376 - 2013-01-16 09:12:07 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
but in that post ur saying ur no longer going to fly it. ur going to fly battleships instead u say.

has it become less sexy?...no. it will look the same
has it become un balanced?...no, it will pretty much do what it does now, but with one less neut
has it changed its playstyle?...no, it will behave the same as it does now but with one less neut


It's become unbalanced and no longer fits my playstyle, yes.

It stopped fitting my play style when they nerfed the CPU and PG, taking the highslot off, reducing the shield, the armor and the hull, just makes sure I'll never get in one again. (Probably).

That reduced its utility, it's dps, and its tank, as well as made it slower (since they are adding mass to it next patch as well).


What do you mean by unbalanced? CCP and most players think that fitting on the cane was wildly easier than on other BCs, so they brought it down a bit- it's still easier to fit than the others, tho.

And in case you missed all BCs will be slighty nerfed in the next balancing pass, as they are currently too versatile and powerful for the price. Especially in comparison to battleships.

Seriously, is your only motivation for this whole skill point remap is your butthurt overreaction to Cane rebalancing (it's not even released yet)? And do you think that the skills you used to fly the ship are "years worth of SP wasted"?

.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#377 - 2013-01-16 09:31:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:


Actually, no where in the definition of pay to Win does it state that the Item "must not be available in game".

In fact it specifically states that a Pay to win game is defined by micro transactions which allow you to attain gear, weapons, currency or other items, which give you an advantage over others. It also goes on to state that generally these same items are available in game for free to players who put the time and effort in to get them.

However, it is considered a Pay to win game because you can get these items, gear, and weapons, BEFORE someone else who can not pay cash for them. Which puts them at a distinct disadvantage to you who paid cash for said weapons.


That is Pay to win, and that is EXACTLY what buying a Plex allows you to do.
I didn't say not available in game, you really should read things correctly first. The fact that you keep avoiding my request, speaks volumes. You talk of logic, yet fail to apply any at all.

Your assertion in this thread, that ISK somehow only gives the seller of a Plex a win over anyone else, is utterly ridiculous. Especially when you've already said there are tons of ways to make it. You even state that mining and faction warfare are excellent ways for new players to make large amounts of ISK. Using your logic, would mean that those mining and doing faction warfare, have an unfair advantage over me?

But no, the logic of that simply doesn't fly. Just as it doesn't fly, regarding the ISK gained from the sale of a Plex. Because Pay2Win specifically regards items, unavailable through normal game play.
So here it is again, the same sentence.

Point me to ANY item in game a Plex can get you, that you cannot get by normal game play.

As far as the thread idea is concerned. I answered your attempt to squash Tippia's list of WHY this is a bad idea. Here is the link, it's over 2 posts. But you avoided them. You could respond to each point, if you really have faith in this.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#378 - 2013-01-16 10:06:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Roime wrote:
Seriously, is your only motivation for this whole skill point remap is your butthurt overreaction to Cane rebalancing (it's not even released yet)? And do you think that the skills you used to fly the ship are "years worth of SP wasted"?




man can't you see how they are wasted...I mean what other medium projectile fitting ship is worth a damn from the minmatar cruiser-ish line up? Thats right, 0. (insert sarcasm tag here)


or maybe he got the advance advanced copy of the eve with the BC skill realignment. The one where there is a minmatar BC skill to train to 5. I guess ccp is gonna make it hard to train and it won't be less than 30 days depening like it is now. Good thing I have BC 5 now....apparently the racial BC skills will make learning frieghter/jf 5 a walk in the park lol.

lets go down the list of some more cane only skills....

dual neut cane.....yep no other ship uses neuts like a cane

dual web cane....damn he's right, no other ship runs webs in eve

dual HAM/HML in the utility highs...no other ship fits these, its a cane trademark

armour cane...all those damn amarr and gallente players running those fail armour fits this whole time, friggin tards

shield cane...dumb caldari, they have been doing it wrong too shield tank fitting

probable has good navi skills....I can confirm my navigation skills stop working on any ship except the cane and they fly unbonused


But in all seriouslness OP what skills are you finding useless withthe new cane not even on the test server to give it a go. Or useless for any shiip you will go to. Besides the medium guns which even if you took to spec 5 is about 2 months stats depending and not years. You if iever go T3 pvp got loki...its not all bad dude.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#379 - 2013-01-16 10:16:41 UTC
Dear Guy -

"They are reducing the high slot and the EHP of the hurricane!!!!!!!!23231!!"

They are doing that to all the other tier 2 battle cruisers as well. Congratulations, its still competitive with other BC's!
Apostrof Ahashion
Doomheim
#380 - 2013-01-16 10:26:41 UTC
HAHAHAHAHA

Seriously, check his battleclinic, its hilarious.

Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:

I fought and killed plenty of canes with a fit similar to yours they didn't even make it through my shield (even when it was armor tanked).


He never killed a Hurricane. Seriously he never killed anything solo, he killed a couple of tacklers with 10+ other guys. And he has 80 million sp, so he cant defend his pathetic ass with "oh, this is my station trading alt, on my main i am in top 50". He is ranked bellow 450,000.00, guess how many subscriptions eve has. Since he obviously wont post his super secret fit that somehow has more tank, gank and everything else than standard cookie cutter fit il do it for him:

[Hurricane, taking stupid to the next level mk II]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Warp Scrambler II

425mm AutoCannon II
425mm AutoCannon II
425mm AutoCannon II
425mm AutoCannon II
425mm AutoCannon II
425mm AutoCannon II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II

Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
linkage


So in a nutshell, phase by phase, the scrubs train of "thought"
1. I suck in this game, im gonna train teh cane and start owning
2. ownage never happened
3. he panics
4. he conforts himself and continues trying
5. the cane gets nerfed
6. he does not really understand what exactly changed in practice
7. he panics
8. he bitches and wants his sp back
9. he proposes a stupid idea on the forums
10. he fails to realize that his idea would create sp out of thin air