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How to counter Strategic Cruisers?

Author
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-01-12 04:30:03 UTC
Legions , Tengus , Loki...

All names that would instantly send a chill down the spine of those listening on the intel channel.
Fast , agile , and very lethal.
They are among the MOST dangerous ships to fight and perhaps one of the most resilient on the battlefield .

With the damage potential of a Battleship and agility of a cruiser , just how do you counter them???

In this game of Rock Paper Scissors Spock.
Just what can we use to defeat Spock??

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#2 - 2013-01-12 04:30:56 UTC
Blob them. That's how you win in EVE.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-01-12 04:36:23 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Blob them. That's how you win in EVE.


Well ofc , thats how we ALWAYS took them down (if we can catch them).
But THERE HAS to be a counter.

Destroyers counter Frigates
Cruisers counter destroyers and frigates
Battlecruisers counter cruisers ,destroyers, but have trouble against Frigates.
Battleships are battlestations that can be countered by frigate and cruisers.

Where is the strategic cruiser in that equation?

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-01-12 05:19:16 UTC
Arbitrators! Killed a blaster prot in my arby not to long ago.

Anyway no specific hull counters t3. It depends on the type of t3 and how he is setup. I mean not all frigates are easily taken down by destroyers. some cruisers are great at smashing some frigates but not all, while some cruisers can't touch frigs at all.
Don't measure counters by ship class measure them by hull and setup. A shield brutix is a very different ship than an armor one. A fleet maelstrom isn't the same thing as a dual xasb one.

Some battleships can make mincemeat of frigates with the proper modules and weapon types.

I mean if a t3 is a fast type counter it with something fast, if its a mediocre speed brawler kite it or use a better brawler. Their are to many variants to name the counters for, but you don't list counters for a ship class you do it for a hull and setup type.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

SAJUK NIGARRA
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-01-12 05:43:32 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Legions , Tengus , Loki...

All names that would instantly send a chill down the spine of those listening on the intel channel.
Fast , agile , and very lethal.
They are among the MOST dangerous ships to fight and perhaps one of the most resilient on the battlefield .

With the damage potential of a Battleship and agility of a cruiser , just how do you counter them???

In this game of Rock Paper Scissors Spock.
Just what can we use to defeat Spock??



Webs, painters and neuts.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#6 - 2013-01-12 05:49:30 UTC
T3 nerf is coming. Just wait a while. Twisted
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#7 - 2013-01-12 06:09:54 UTC
Ewar. Lots of Ewar.

Energy neutralizers will ruin Proteuses and Legions.
Sensor dampeners will infuriate Tengus.
Tracking Disruptors will wreak havoc on Proteuses, Lokis, and some Legion builds.
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-01-12 08:13:31 UTC
Well after reading the above posts.
There really isn't any counter to it is there?

E-War you say?
If you're 1v1 ing a t3 , that means your med slots are out and chances are they'll out run you ,
If you want to be practical with E-war that means you'll need backup, falling back again to the BLOB tactics .

Pick arbitrators you say?
Are you sure you're not just fighting a poorly skilled pilot in a poorly fi

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#9 - 2013-01-12 10:53:05 UTC
Neuts are pretty effective, so maybe something like this for anything that isnt a Tengu;

[Curse, Curse Passive TD + Point]
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor

Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
True Sansha Medium Nosferatu
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5
Hammerhead II x5
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-01-12 10:58:40 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Neuts are pretty effective, so maybe something like this for anything that isnt a Tengu;

[Curse, Curse Passive TD + Point]
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor

Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
True Sansha Medium Nosferatu
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5
Hammerhead II x5


considering tengus are about as common as T3 comes , and people are saying how other T3s are crap compared to it .
How do you kill a cruiser than can speed tank 2000+dps while dishing 600-700 omni dps ?

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#11 - 2013-01-12 11:31:40 UTC
Well, they don't deal that kind of DPS, unless HAM fit in which case they are a lot easier to kill, they deal around 450 these days, and no other T3s arent crap compared, they just have different purposes.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#12 - 2013-01-12 12:09:13 UTC
What t3 spottings really sound like on intel channels is

"OMG! EXPENZIV KILLMAILZ MUSTWHORE!"

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-01-12 13:41:18 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
What t3 spottings really sound like on intel channels is

"OMG! EXPENZIV KILLMAILZ MUSTWHORE!"


Well, BricKs are pretty professional on intel lol.

" xxx Spotted in XXX system
Nullified cloaky Tengu
warped off towards xx cluster .
In pursuit .
Orders? "

but does it matter?
When a T3 comes into hostile space , it probably is already prepared for roadblocks . Catching it with skills won't be sufficient , it'll also require a GREAT proportion of luck.
If a T3 is camping , the enemy FC probably already has done a complete KB background check and with alts as eyes, the entire fleet compo is already exposed , and killing the T3 is guaranteed to be a blood bath .
Even on 1 v 1 , a well skilled tengu will kill ANYTHING less than a BS in a jiffy .

Its the ultimate , one man army and don't even get me started on t3 fleets .

That reckons the question , even Goliath has a weakness, what are their's?

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
#14 - 2013-01-12 14:09:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Machiavelli's Nemesis
Ivy Romanova wrote:
That reckons the question , even Goliath has a weakness, what are their's?


Another t3.

LINK

or failing that, any gang with the right type of ewar and a rapier/huginn/ashimmu.
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-01-12 15:57:31 UTC
in other words ... there are no effective counters Oops

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-01-12 17:11:41 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
in other words ... there are no effective counters Oops



There are plenty of ways to kill t3's And to be fair, most T3's don't do BS level damage, although some can fit BS sized tanks.

Proteus can do huge damage, has a big tank, but is very susceptible to kiting and neuts.

Tengu does so so damage at range, but can be hard to catch. Oh, and show me a fit that does 700dps omni damage (given the tengu only has a bonus to kinetic missiles).

Legion is very prone to neuts with lasers. It is a brick armor tanked.

Loki has dem long range webs. But generally seems the squishiest of the T3's


Given their pretty much guaranteed SP loss these days, they should be tougher than your average ship to counter.
JAF Anders
Adenosine Inhibition
#17 - 2013-01-12 18:08:44 UTC
It is less of a question of how to beat Spock as it is a question to beat Rock or Paper on a given occasion.

The question of how to counter any generic strategic cruiser likely indicates the need to become more familiarized with Tech 3 ships and their subsystems. Account for the makeup of each individual ship you encounter and bring a ship or ships that exploit that ship's weaknesses and avoid or inhibit its strengths.

The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts.

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#18 - 2013-01-12 20:10:13 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
What t3 spottings really sound like on intel channels is

"OMG! EXPENZIV KILLMAILZ MUSTWHORE!"


Well, BricKs are pretty professional on intel lol.

" xxx Spotted in XXX system
Nullified cloaky Tengu
warped off towards xx cluster .
In pursuit .
Orders? "


lol, how quaint xD

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#19 - 2013-01-12 20:21:31 UTC
This thread needs more Ashimmus

wumbo

Benjamin Hamburg
Chaos.Theory
#20 - 2013-01-12 21:13:33 UTC
It depends on the fit. Most Tech 3 that you will encounter in your space, if you live in null, are likely to be nullified and cloaky, wich leave little room to catch them. A skilled interceptor could be able to decloak and point them, maybe 1 time out of 5 , and since these set-up usually are a compromise between tank and dps, it shouldnt be an issue even for a single BC to kill them. If you encounter a Tech 3 wich is not nullified, then you will be able to catch it easilly but killing it will be harder, and you will likely need a gang/logi to support you. The easiest way is to use a tech 3 yourself so you can properly counter fit depending on what you want to fight. Soloing a tech 3 in anything else excepted in a tech 3 yourself is impossible if you want my opinion, unless you gank it with a faction battleship like a vindicator, but he would be stupid to engage that alone, wich if he do, mean he is a scout and you'r screwed.

If you want a clue of what fit your target is using, check his lost on evekill, and at least his kills to see if he is close or long range. Beside that, there is not a lot of thing you can do, cause it's the purpose of Tech 3: versatility.
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