Jita Park Speakers Corner

That doesn't sound bad.

(1) I doubt you can interdict more than a small fraction.

(2) Even if you could interdict everything, there still isn't the capacity in null to produce the required demand. It's on oft-repeated statistic, but many people aren't aware of it, but many systems in hi-sec have more production capacity than the best developed 0.0 regions.

I believe some of the systems within 2-5 jumps of Jita have double the capacity deklein has.

I will admit I look forward to the day that Null makes some kind of sense.

Wthl the peasants out working their fields, you know with them actually supporting Nulls need for ships that kind of guarantees someone will be afk mining.

But at least even as the peasants are weeded out they will still see the rewards of their activities in NUll, especially as income really needs to be bottom up.

Oh and on top of this of course is the fact that Null will need massive numbers of miners (especially if sov is tied to usage), so miners will become a great part of Null (and they will probably dob in any bots they see), they will build lots of ships and with ships easier to get more will go

BOOM

Yes but at the moment only the insane or a bot would min in Null, you are financially a lot better off in Hi-sec.

As to the importation and for that matter exportation that is why I would like to see jump fuel consumption increase to give the hi-sec market some protection as well as giving the Null sec industrialists the edge within their own space.

enlighten me: how does the null economy work?

preliminary information tends to suggest ratting and moon mining... but ratting gives only a trickle of income to an individual and moon mining is restricted to the "chosen ones".

and there's always complex running, but how often does a site spawn?

so... many null dwellers have alts in high sec to do their isk making to support their pvp habits.

Ratting isn't great, but grinding anomalies gives good ISK/hr. The problem is that it only produces ISK, and you can't fly ISK. It's also suceptible to interdiction (go read the many whines about AFK cloaking). Anoms can also - at best - only support 3 or 4 players at a time in an upgraded system, unlike a mission agent who can serve as many players as the local node can manage (well over a hundred in the best systems). Thus 0.0 has a very low economic density compared to hi-sec.

Nullsec industry is mostly: supercap production, because this is restricted to CSAAs, which can only be deployed in sov space, low-value, high bulk items like cap boosters, ratting ammo, cyno frigates, and occasionally you get some guy who builds in null for what are essentially roleplaying reasons, rather than economic ones. There is very little R&D and essentially zero invention. Virtually everything that the average 0.0 player flies and uses has to be imported from hi-sec.

Another very tight constraint is that 0.0 outposts can only have 4 office slots, and usually one of those is required for the alliance holding corp. Gallente outposts can have 12, but they're worthless for anything else than having office slots. They're purely military assets.

EDIT: Well run alliances have highly developed logistics services. To take my own as an example, I can post a "buy order" on the alliance forum for anything I want that can fit in a JF, and have it delivered to the alliance staging system for Jita +5% within 1-2 days at most; in fact I can often order in the morning while I'm eating breakfast at work, and have the contract waiting for me to accept when I get home. This service nicely illustrates the unbelievable advantage that hi-sec production has: anyone in INIT. who wants to produce to sell to the alliance has to be able to make a profit by selling for no more than 5% over Jita, within 24 hours. 5% isn't much margin to compete within....

Well I think he gets it now Zim.

part of the problem with discussing this issue is that the imbalance between 0.0 and hi-sec industry is so huge that people who hadn't previously considered the issue simply can't believe that the gap is so big, and they balk at the obvious implications.

I'd rather just see Spod (and Gneiss?) loaded up with low-end minerals to achieve the same effect without asking CCP to release a new shiptype that would cause even more ill-feeling amongst the hi-sec community.

Zim and I are pretty much aligned in our views on this subject. Even as a CFC partisan, he doesn't need to distort the facts because they support the case so overwhelmingly that the truth is the most effective propaganda that could be made. If anything, goons might want to understate the case because of the effect that I mentioned above - the imbalance is so shockingly great that people just don't want to believe it.