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Help needed with a Vargur fit for lvl 4 missions
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Crystonaia
Tactical Bombing
#1 - 2013-01-11 07:49:53 UTC
Anyone by any chance have a Vargur fit which can solo lvl 4's? (minmatar missions - republic justice department)

I am currenty using:

highs:
4 x 800mm

Meds:
Adaptive invuln II
1 Therm hardener II
1 kin harnder II
1 expl harnder II
1 shield boost ampf II
1 med pith c-type shield booster

Lows:
3 gyro II
2 TE II

rigs:
2 CCC I

Most times with missions like Angel Extravaganza or Worlds Collide, i melt and have to gtfo :P
So the main issue is the incoming dps, i am popping the rats quite fast....
But is there something i should enhance in my fit? Drop maybe a hardener for something else?

Any advise will be greatly appreciated!
Greenlike ish
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-01-11 08:45:53 UTC
Crystonaia wrote:
Anyone by any chance have a Vargur fit which can solo lvl 4's? (minmatar missions - republic justice department)

I am currenty using:

highs:
4 x 800mm

Meds:
Adaptive invuln II
1 Therm hardener II
1 kin harnder II
1 expl harnder II
1 shield boost ampf II
1 med pith c-type shield booster

Lows:
3 gyro II
2 TE II

rigs:
2 CCC I

Most times with missions like Angel Extravaganza or Worlds Collide, i melt and have to gtfo :P
So the main issue is the incoming dps, i am popping the rats quite fast....
But is there something i should enhance in my fit? Drop maybe a hardener for something else?

Any advise will be greatly appreciated!


1 med pith c-type shield booster: this might be the problem?
Spheranzinne
Color of Violence
#3 - 2013-01-11 09:33:26 UTC
it might sound stupid at first, but the med deadspace booster on bs sized hulls works better if used to complement a shield buffer tank approach, especially when the hull is a high alpha ship like machariel or vargur. this way u get enough time to pop the rats, thing which is really enjoyable and short in a vargur.

So, i would say drop a TE from lows, add a DCU, and go in the mids with two large extenders, two invulvs, the med booster and a deadspace 100mn afterburner. depending on how u are standing withe the cap, u can also switch the ccs in the rigs with shield rigs. u can also go now for faction damage mods, since the buffer now allows you to face the lonely mission hub occasional ganker.

u can also use, if any utility slots available, a dirt cheap deadspace heavy nos, that will suck the rats from 30k. i always use a pet bs that orbits close to improve my cap stability.

this is a sportscar approach to mission running which involves sometimes overheating the booster, thing that can be done for a good couple of minutes in a bs sized ship.

have fun Smile
Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-01-11 10:14:54 UTC
Please ignore everything the poster above me has said. His fit has no range, little dps and a bad tank. It took me ~30seconds to put together a Maelstrom fit that beats it at pretty much everything.

There's really no point in going capstable for a mission ship and there is absolutely no way anyone would suicide gank a BS for 250mil in faction Gyros anyway, so just skip useless stuff like a DCU

Quote:

[Vargur, PvE]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II

Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Explosive Deflection Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

Booster is kind of expensive, but nothing over-the-top considering you're flying a 800mil hull. Has more range, more dps and double the tank of your fit.

Quote:

[Vargur, PvE cap boosted]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II

Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Explosive Deflection Field II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Projectile Burst Aerator II


Has even more dps and sligthly more tank than the above fit. The shield booster is really cheap with ~200mil, but it needs a cap booster to keep running (which really isn't a problem, unless you have this allergic reaction to cap managment most mission runners seem so have)
Spheranzinne
Color of Violence
#5 - 2013-01-11 11:56:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Spheranzinne
As a rule of thumb i always ignore the tuskers. they suck at PVE.
the pimped gyst vargur WILL be ganked.
as for the pith, haha, this is mission running not tanking the blob. but yeah, try it nevertheless, and buy 800 boosters in bulk, they 'll cost more than the ammo.

oh, and quick edit here: never put optimal scripts on a ship with bonused falloff and tracking speed. use speeds or leave it empty.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-01-11 13:08:39 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
Umm... drop the thermal hardener, add a tracking computer and remove a TE for a DCU2.
= Better resists against angels and a lot better tracking.

Edit, even with my skills that thing is stable with only 1 CCC, swap the other for... anything you want really Roll

Edit2:

[Vargur, New Setup 1]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

Explosive Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Explosive Deflection Field II
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
Small Tractor Beam II
Salvager II
Salvager II

Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I

Cap stable (not with tracktor etc), more tank, and better tracking Big smile
You can swap the second explosive hardener for an inv for some more all round tank but its not quite stable :p

No Worries
LordSpock
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-01-11 13:53:37 UTC
[Vargur, Lvl4]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II

Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Experimental 100MN Afterburner I
Explosive Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I


Hammerhead II x5


This works pretty well too. There is no reason with such a large booster to be capstable. Your pulse your booster when needed. when you don't turn on the AB you have 2 minutes to permaboost. This ship has massive DPS which should aloow you to actually get rid of the most DPS before you run in any trouble. Yes I know CCC are the way to go in most cases, but as you have an XL booster you benefit more from cap-capacity, than recharge. EFT shows 1m22s cap with CCC, 1m47 with these rigs.

You have 9k shield hitpoints. That means more than 10% is being brought back every 4 seconds.
McRoll
Extraction and Exploration Ltd.
#8 - 2013-01-11 13:59:36 UTC  |  Edited by: McRoll
The rigs are wrong with all the above posts. I had some theorycrafting a good while ago and fiddled around with my Vargur for best possible DPS projection. After much testing and discussing, there is basically only one core fit that is the best compromise between DPS and application of it.

Rigs must be

1x Projectile Burst Aerator II
1x Projectile Ambit Extension I

There is no discussion about that part.

The lows must contain 3x faction gyrostabilizer and 2x faction tracking enhancer. You can get rid of one tracking enhancer for a damage control if you have trouble tanking.

After that it's up to you what kind of tank you fit and what your wallet can sustain. I have a large Pith b-Type booster which I got for cheap back then and it's enough for everything a LVl 4 can throw at you. I also like to have a tracking computer fitted to get that little extra range or tracking depending on the situation.

Also, I would always fit an afterburner. Speed is part of tank because you can mitigate missile damage and get yourself into better position for applying DPS- and saves time flying between gates.

Dont forget that you can also inject gunnery implants in your head for better DPS. That would be a % to all turrets damage and falloff implant as well as a large projectile damage one.
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#9 - 2013-01-11 14:03:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Zor'katar
I'll throw my $0.02 in. I've used this with good success. (No fitting tool at the moment, so no standard formatting.)

    High:
  • 4x 800mm AC II (RF ammo)

    Mid:
  • 2x T2 Hardeners (mission specific if necessary)
  • 1x Pith B Large Shield Booster (edit: A-Types are cheaper now than my B-Type was when I bought it. May need to upgrade...)
  • 1x Shield Boost Amp II
  • 1x TC II (usually range scripted)
  • 1 utility slot (usually scan res scripted SeBo, but can be prop, more tank, ECCM, whatever the mission requires)

    Low:
  • 3x Gyro II (pimp if you want; I prefer to not be much of a loot pinata)
  • 2x TE II

    Rigs:
  • 1x Burst Aerator II
  • 1x Ambit I


Good DPS and range. Not cap stable, but you don't really need to be.

Spheranzinne wrote:
oh, and quick edit here: never put optimal scripts on a ship with bonused falloff and tracking speed. use speeds or leave it empty.


Not sure what the problem with range scripts in a TC is... do you think they only boost optimal? They boost falloff as well, and that's usually what you need in a Vargur. You'll be engaging in deep falloff far more often than up close where tracking starts to be an issue.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-01-11 14:15:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
Spheranzinne wrote:
As a rule of thumb i always ignore the tuskers. they suck at PVE.
the pimped gyst vargur WILL be ganked.
as for the pith, haha, this is mission running not tanking the blob. but yeah, try it nevertheless, and buy 800 boosters in bulk, they 'll cost more than the ammo.

oh, and quick edit here: never put optimal scripts on a ship with bonused falloff and tracking speed. use speeds or leave it empty.


every single sentence in this response is false. the fits proposed by Wuxi Wuxilla are a little on the expensive side but will get the job done very well.

I should buy an Ishtar.
LordSpock
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-01-11 14:55:12 UTC
McRoll wrote:
The rigs are wrong with all the above posts. I had some theorycrafting a good while ago and fiddled around with my Vargur for best possible DPS projection. After much testing and discussing, there is basically only one core fit that is the best compromise between DPS and application of it.

Rigs must be

1x Projectile Burst Aerator II
1x Projectile Ambit Extension I

There is no discussion about that part.

The lows must contain 3x faction gyrostabilizer and 2x faction tracking enhancer. You can get rid of one tracking enhancer for a damage control if you have trouble tanking.

After that it's up to you what kind of tank you fit and what your wallet can sustain. I have a large Pith b-Type booster which I got for cheap back then and it's enough for everything a LVl 4 can throw at you. I also like to have a tracking computer fitted to get that little extra range or tracking depending on the situation.

Also, I would always fit an afterburner. Speed is part of tank because you can mitigate missile damage and get yourself into better position for applying DPS- and saves time flying between gates.

Dont forget that you can also inject gunnery implants in your head for better DPS. That would be a % to all turrets damage and falloff implant as well as a large projectile damage one.


In my opinion a 170mil TE isn't worth the additional 0.5% tracking it adds. Because the rest of the stats are exactly the same.
stoicfaux
#12 - 2013-01-11 23:29:22 UTC
Here's what I use Minmatar space: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/59297-Vargur-Level-4-Minmatar-Space-Max-Gank-Min-Tank.html TCs normally run range scripts.

I'm guessing the OP either needs to skill up a bit or manage triggers better. Or try fitting an ASB?


Vargur, Vargur: Level 4 - Minmatar Space - Max Gank Min Tank]
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer

Tracking Computer II
Tracking Computer II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Explosive Deflection Field II
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II

800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
Small Tractor Beam II
Salvager II
Salvager II

Large Projectile Ambit Extension I
Large Projectile Burst Aerator II


Hobgoblin II

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
McRoll
Extraction and Exploration Ltd.
#13 - 2013-01-11 23:42:50 UTC
LordSpock wrote:


In my opinion a 170mil TE isn't worth the additional 0.5% tracking it adds. Because the rest of the stats are exactly the same.


They are THAT expensive now? Holy ****, I think mine cost each 50 or 60 back then. I had them for quite some time now...
By all means stick to normal T2 in that case.
goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#14 - 2013-01-11 23:47:30 UTC
Pretty sure this goes against anything thats been posted so far but it works for me and never get even a little close to melting.

[Vargur, Get'er'done]

4x 800mm Repeating Artillery II (Hail L)
Small Tractor Beam II
Salvager II
Auto Targeting System II

X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster (Navy Cap Booster 800)
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster (Navy Cap Booster 400)
Gistum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Core X-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Sensor Booster II
Tracking Computer II (Optimal Range Script)

Damage Control II
3x Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer

2x Large Processor Overclocking Unit I

5x Warrior II
10x Warrior II

65x Navy Cap Booster 400
5000x Barrage L
5000x Hail L

As always I expect the trolls, but heres the numbers anyways
1100dps
1500 tank 2400 w/heat (Always heat ASB)
MWD gives me the abiltity to pick ranges at all times
and for really heavy DPS I add a Shield Boost Amplifier changing my tank to a little over 3400

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
McRoll
Extraction and Exploration Ltd.
#15 - 2013-01-11 23:52:21 UTC
What do you need that much tank for? A lvl 4 doesnt even come close to the damage output you are tanking with this. Also you are losing probably around 100 dps or more in practice because of the rigs. Less paper DPS and less falloff than with aerator/extension combo.
goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#16 - 2013-01-11 23:57:14 UTC
McRoll wrote:
What do you need that much tank for? A lvl 4 doesnt even come close to the damage output you are tanking with this. Also you are losing probably around 100 dps or more in practice because of the rigs. Less paper DPS and less falloff than with aerator/extension combo.


I dont run LVL4's with it, and more often than not I have to deal with 'visitors' I know he doesn't need this much tank, usually only one booster is all thats needed and only a few cycles from it for something as simple as a lvl4.

If WorldsCollide is melting his varg tank then this will get him through with no worries. and he can trim it down as needed.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#17 - 2013-01-12 00:04:04 UTC
Zor'katar wrote:
Spheranzinne wrote:
oh, and quick edit here: never put optimal scripts on a ship with bonused falloff and tracking speed. use speeds or leave it empty.


Not sure what the problem with range scripts in a TC is... do you think they only boost optimal? They boost falloff as well, and that's usually what you need in a Vargur. You'll be engaging in deep falloff far more often than up close where tracking starts to be an issue.


This. Scripted TCs actually make great sense on the Vargur, both range and tracking depending on range.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#18 - 2013-01-12 09:40:25 UTC
I'm pretty sure I don't even use my booster in angels extra. And I don't know which WC you are getting but maybe try fitting different hardeners, or maybe a prop mod, npcs have pretty bad tracking.

tbh not really a huge difference between the slight changes in fitting. more or less every fit should have 4x 800s, 4-5slot tank, 3 gyros, a te, tc, and the t2 rof rig. and then a few slots for personal preference.

Zor'katar's and stoicfaux's fits look fine too.

my fit, the falloff rig puts it over pg limit with the ab. tbh I don't use it much, prefer the mach in most situations I'd use the vargur.

[Vargur, Varg copy 1]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Salvager II

Large Projectile Burst Aerator II
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II


Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x5

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Spheranzinne
Color of Violence
#19 - 2013-01-12 22:53:28 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Spheranzinne wrote:
As a rule of thumb i always ignore the tuskers. they suck at PVE.
the pimped gyst vargur WILL be ganked.
as for the pith, haha, this is mission running not tanking the blob. but yeah, try it nevertheless, and buy 800 boosters in bulk, they 'll cost more than the ammo.

oh, and quick edit here: never put optimal scripts on a ship with bonused falloff and tracking speed. use speeds or leave it empty.


every single sentence in this response is false. the fits proposed by Wuxi Wuxilla are a little on the expensive side but will get the job done very well.


posting with alts makes you famous, not right. also check killboards for vargurs. also stop pimpin maruders, they are already pimped by design.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#20 - 2013-01-12 23:51:27 UTC
Spheranzinne wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
Spheranzinne wrote:
As a rule of thumb i always ignore the tuskers. they suck at PVE.
the pimped gyst vargur WILL be ganked.
as for the pith, haha, this is mission running not tanking the blob. but yeah, try it nevertheless, and buy 800 boosters in bulk, they 'll cost more than the ammo.

oh, and quick edit here: never put optimal scripts on a ship with bonused falloff and tracking speed. use speeds or leave it empty.


every single sentence in this response is false. the fits proposed by Wuxi Wuxilla are a little on the expensive side but will get the job done very well.


posting with alts makes you famous, not right. also check killboards for vargurs. also stop pimpin maruders, they are already pimped by design.


Says the one who doesn't know how TCs work Roll.
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