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[Retribution 1.1] Combat Battlecruisers

First post First post First post
Author
Mizhir
TOP DAMAGE Ltd.
Trigger Happy.
#21 - 2013-01-08 21:06:07 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Cyclone:
Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile rate of fire
7.5% bonus to shield boosting amount

Fixed Bonus:
99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules
Slot layout: 7 H (-1), 5 M, 5 L (+1), 2 turrets, 5 Launchers
Fittings: 1200 PWG (-10), 525 CPU (+100)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 4750(+355) / 4000(+94) / 3500(+81)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2250(+62.5) / 592s(+8.67s) / 3.8 (+0.05)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 165 / 0.704 / 12500000 / 8.2s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 (+10) / 50 (+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 45km / 220 / 6
Sensor strength: 16 Ladar
Signature radius: 250 (+10)
Cargo capacity: 450 (-25)


Why not 6 launchers? I thought you were going away from the split weapon layout. Now it just seems like you swapped it around for the cyclone.

Also, many of the former tier2 ones seem to lose their utility high. I had hoped to see t1 BCs being used more with a link or two for small fleets with the upcomming change to links, but the loss of the utility high will just mean that ppl will be less likely to fit one with a link.

❤️️💛💚💙💜

fukier
Brave Collective
#22 - 2013-01-08 21:06:44 UTC
Edward Pierce wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
But Fozzie, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount on both Gallente Battlecruisers?? But we all know how much active armor tanking sucks!! Whatever will you do about this dilemma..... Twisted


Until they make these bonuses apply on all reps (remote reps too), the rep bonus will always be inferior to the passive tank since it can't scale in gangs.


by all reps that would mean incomming external RR right? as a rep bonus without range bonus on rr is rather useless...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
FistyMcBumBasher
Goryn Clade
#23 - 2013-01-08 21:06:51 UTC
I think having armor repair per level on both of the Gallente BC's is a little boring. Maybe an armor resist on the brutix or a Drone MWD on the Myrmidon?
Thomas Hurt
Future Ventures
#24 - 2013-01-08 21:07:25 UTC
Interesting to see that the only people the Dev responded to were goons...
Mary Clarissa Titor
#25 - 2013-01-08 21:08:03 UTC
A few questions. Pardon me if they sound stupid. :)

  • Looks like all battlecruisers are keeping their warfare link module fitting bonus. But as far as I remember, the plan is to get rid of off-grid boosting in the future. That will make battlecruisers with warfare link modules usefull, while right now I don't think I've ever seen one fit on a real ship. Is there a particular reason for Gallente to have no battlecruisers with an utility high for such a usage while Amarr and Minmatar do?
  • What Hans said. Why both Gallente battlecruisers get an active repair bonus, when such a bonus so often remains unused in a fleet situation? With the current popularity of T1 logi, the usefullness of an armor resist bonus is much higher.


Otherwise, yay, heavies on myrm! :)
Beidorion eldwardan
Tactically Armed Vanguard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#26 - 2013-01-08 21:08:58 UTC
the sad thing about this major nerf, which it really is... tier 3 bc's are going to be even more the ship to fly once this slaughter goes into effect.

for instance the dual type of the harbinger plus the other chances to will make me sell mine before it get ruined. i would not fit different weapons on a ship. for the simply reason that damage modefiers come from different modules so i'd have to compromise to much on my overall fitting idea.

and i have a FAR more important question ! does this in any way effect on the commandship version of the upcoming ruined tier 1 and 2 bc's.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#27 - 2013-01-08 21:09:40 UTC
you still sell cap use bonus as second bonus for amar ships :(

It should be a role bonus that you can use a weapon, ship bonus gives specialization. Other ships receive tracking, range, whatever bonus and amarr ships like harb or oracle have a "yey you can actually fire this weapon" bonus.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

fukier
Brave Collective
#28 - 2013-01-08 21:10:54 UTC
the changes i would like to see:

Myrmidon:
Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to drone tracking and optimal range
10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints
Fixed Bonus:
99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules
Slot layout: 4 H (-2), 6 M (+1), 6 L, 5 turrets (-2)
Fittings: 1050 PWG (-125), 425 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3500(-406) / 4500(-188) / 4750(+453)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2850(+37.5) / 750s(+108.75s) / 3.8 (+0.05)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 145 / 0.704 / 13100000 / 8.6s (-0.1)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100 (+25) / 175 (+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 200 / 7
Sensor strength: 18 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 305 (+5)
Cargo capacity: 400

Brutix:
Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
10% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness
Fixed Bonus:
99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules
Slot layout: 7 H, 4 M, 6 L (+1), 7 turrets
Fittings: 1200 PWG (+50), 435 CPU (+10)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3500(-406) / 4500(+135) / 5000(+117)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 3000(+656.25) / 789s(+164s) / 3.8 (+0.05)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 155 / 0.704(+0.0352) / 12250000 (-1,000,000) / 8.1s (-0.2)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 200 / 7
Sensor strength: 18 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 305 (+5)
Cargo capacity: 475 (+75)


Ferox:
Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to all Shield Resistances
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
Fixed Bonus:
99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules
Slot layout: 7 H, 5 M, 5 L (+1), 7 turrets (+1)
Fittings: 1100 PWG (+25), 510 CPU (+35)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 5000(+117) / 3500(+81) / 4250(+344)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2750(+250) / 723s(+56.33s) / 3.8 (+0.05)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 140 / 0.65(+0.05) / 13510000 (-500,000) / 8.2s (+0.3)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km (+5)/ 195 / 8
Sensor strength: 19 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 295 (+10)
Cargo capacity: 475 (+130)

At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Dead Links
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-01-08 21:11:51 UTC
Meh, whatever.
CaptainFalcon07
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#30 - 2013-01-08 21:12:29 UTC
My opinion:

Harbinger - A big improvement and change. I like it.

Prophecy - I am not impressed, it has more tank and everything but 75 mb of drone is pretty lacking. I say you give it more launcher slots and make it a missile launching drone boat.

Ferox - better, but still not good enough. The optimal range bonus is pointless when you have the Naga that has way better DPS AND RANGE. Swap the Range bonus for a damage bonus, make it more like the new Moa.

Drake - nothing much has changed.

Cyclone - Poor, only 5 launchers with a single damage bonus. You might as well get a caracal. Give it 6-7 launchers and it will be good.

Hurricane - Loses a high slot, eh can deal with it.

Myrmidon - Loses a turret for more drone bandwidth, seems better but I still don't like that armor repair bonus.

Brutix - Better but still not impressed with the armor repair bonus.
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#31 - 2013-01-08 21:12:40 UTC
The cane hadn't really healed from the last onslought. Now it loses a high, less cap, less cap regen, less shields, less structure...

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.

Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
#32 - 2013-01-08 21:12:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarnak Wulf
I like the looks of the new prophecy. The Harb did get hit harder then I expected.

I was hoping that between the Myrm and Brutix one would get rid of the armor rep bonus. Sigh. 100m^3 is a weird bandwidth for the Myrm too. 4 heavies? 3 heavies an two medium to not make full use of it? It's nice but sort of offends my OCD.

The Drake is unoriginal. Caldari hybrid boat get shield and a hybrid bonus. Caldari missile boats get range and damage. The Ferox got upgraded to 7 turrets. I approve.

Minmatar - saw it coming. Looks fine.
Edward Pierce
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2013-01-08 21:15:22 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Cyclone:
Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile rate of fire
7.5% bonus to shield boosting amount

Fixed Bonus:
99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules
Slot layout: 7 H (-1), 5 M, 5 L (+1), 2 turrets, 5 Launchers
Fittings: 1200 PWG (-10), 525 CPU (+100)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 4750(+355) / 4000(+94) / 3500(+81)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2250(+62.5) / 592s(+8.67s) / 3.8 (+0.05)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 165 / 0.704 / 12500000 / 8.2s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 (+10) / 50 (+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 45km / 220 / 6
Sensor strength: 16 Ladar
Signature radius: 250 (+10)
Cargo capacity: 450 (-25)


Why not 6 launchers? I thought you were going away from the split weapon layout. Now it just seems like you swapped it around for the cyclone.

Also, many of the former tier2 ones seem to lose their utility high. I had hoped to see t1 BCs being used more with a link or two for small fleets with the upcomming change to links, but the loss of the utility high will just mean that ppl will be less likely to fit one with a link.



Isn't a turret high on a missile bonus ship the ultimate utility high?

fukier wrote:
Edward Pierce wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
But Fozzie, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount on both Gallente Battlecruisers?? But we all know how much active armor tanking sucks!! Whatever will you do about this dilemma..... Twisted


Until they make these bonuses apply on all reps (remote reps too), the rep bonus will always be inferior to the passive tank since it can't scale in gangs.


by all reps that would mean incomming external RR right? as a rep bonus without range bonus on rr is rather useless...


Yes, I meant all incoming reps, that includes remote reps. And even then a resist bonus will outperform a rep bonus since buffer tanks (plate and extenders) won't gain anything from a rep bonus while a resist bonus benefits both active and passive tanking.
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-01-08 21:17:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal
Overall, this doesn't rustle my jimmies.

edit: i'm a big derp

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT

fukier
Brave Collective
#35 - 2013-01-08 21:17:52 UTC
Edward Pierce wrote:


Yes, I meant all incoming reps, that includes remote reps. And even then a resist bonus will outperform a rep bonus since buffer tanks (plate and extenders) won't gain anything from a rep bonus while a resist bonus benefits both active and passive tanking.


ok good cuss i have been suggesting this for years!

well with alts...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Abigail La'Fey
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-01-08 21:19:09 UTC
The Cyclone is missing a Launcher hardpoint.
Abigail La'Fey
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-01-08 21:19:54 UTC
Also, would it not make more sense to just give the Tier 1 BCs more slots to bring them in line with the T2 instead of nerfing the bridge new players live in before they can move to a BS?
CaptainFalcon07
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#38 - 2013-01-08 21:20:46 UTC
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
Overall, this doesn't rustle my jimmies.

However, the Harbinger does look a wee bit outgunned.
You're now reducing its fitting, reducing base HP, removing a high (for consistency) but also removing a turret hardpoint, in addition to making it SLOWER.

Combined with the inherit weakness that is laser damage output & tracking, this simply doesnt seem like a good deal.
At the very least, I'd say reduce the high slots and all that, but let it keep the 7 turrets and the powergrid. This will allow for people to run high dps setups that can compete with the likes of the others, in addition to actually fitting BEAMS. If people want that utility high slot, they can choose not to fit the 7th gun.


Haven't you notice the damage bonus has been increased? its gone from 5% -> 10% damage per level.

Now: 7 turrets x 1.25 = 8.75 turrets.

Future: 6 turrets x 1.50 = 9 turrets

As you can see you will do more damage while needing less turrets.
Edward Pierce
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#39 - 2013-01-08 21:21:18 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Ferox:
Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to all Shield Resistances
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range

Fixed Bonus:
99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules
Slot layout: 7 H, 5 M, 5 L (+1), 7 turrets (+1)
Fittings: 1100 PWG (+25), 510 CPU (+35)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 5000(+117) / 3500(+81) / 4250(+344)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2750(+250) / 723s(+56.33s) / 3.8 (+0.05)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 140 / 0.65(+0.05) / 13510000 (-500,000) / 8.2s (+0.3)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km (+5)/ 195 / 8
Sensor strength: 19 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 295 (+10)
Cargo capacity: 475 (+130)


An optimal range to hybrid guns practically forces you to use railguns since blasters have terrible optimals anyways, why not follow the Moa route and give this a damage bonus instead? Even a tracking or falloff bonus would beat this.
Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#40 - 2013-01-08 21:21:25 UTC
Please consider changing the +rep bonuses to Hardening bonuses or something that scales better with fleets.