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FW: Ban Warp Core Stabs in Plexes
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Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#21 - 2013-01-08 18:20:11 UTC
Still laughing over this thread.

The idea that one player could anticipate the tactics of an attacker, fit a ship proactively to counter this, and be considered unfair....

...awesome....
Lol

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2013-01-08 18:47:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Crimeo Khamsi
Keep in mind also that warping around ON GRID is a valid and sometimes very successful tactic in PVP. In a plex, I might set up a bunch of bounce points all 200km from one another ahead of time, then as soon as you get there, I can engage you, and essentially dictate the range of battle without having to entirely rely on prop mods

So banning stabs would not only prevent escaping battle, but also limit techniques used during battle. Which defies the OPs logic (which of course wasn't very good anyway. I'm just throwing another problem onto the pile)
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#23 - 2013-01-08 18:57:00 UTC
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Keep in mind also that warping around ON GRID is a valid and sometimes very successful tactic in PVP. In a plex, I might set up a bunch of bounce points all 200km from one another ahead of time, then as soon as you get there, I can engage you, and essentially dictate the range of battle without having to entirely rely on prop mods

So banning stabs would not only prevent escaping battle, but also limit techniques used during battle. Which defies the OPs logic (which of course wasn't very good anyway. I'm just throwing another problem onto the pile)

Wait, you prepare strategic BMs ahead of time?

That's an awesome strategy!

The OP probably wants you banned from the game for thinking ahead though, this could be even more effective than a stab....

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-01-08 18:59:59 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Keep in mind also that warping around ON GRID is a valid and sometimes very successful tactic in PVP. In a plex, I might set up a bunch of bounce points all 200km from one another ahead of time, then as soon as you get there, I can engage you, and essentially dictate the range of battle without having to entirely rely on prop mods

So banning stabs would not only prevent escaping battle, but also limit techniques used during battle. Which defies the OPs logic (which of course wasn't very good anyway. I'm just throwing another problem onto the pile)

Wait, you prepare strategic BMs ahead of time?

That's an awesome strategy!

The OP probably wants you banned from the game for thinking ahead though, this could be even more effective than a stab....



Nooo, he won't have him banned.

He'll just start another thread about how warping around in a site shouldn't be allowed
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#25 - 2013-01-08 19:20:26 UTC
Takanuro wrote:
Faction Warfare is for PVP, this is how CCP market it.

Scenario:

You see a Tristan on scan at a novice plex. You warp to said plex and activate the gate. You discover it's a valid war target, lock target, activate Scram or Disruptor but wait.....War Target warps off.

My suggestion is that Warp Core Stabilisers are not capatible with the Acceleration gates into FW Plexes. If we are all here to PVP then Warp Core Stabilisers have no place in the combat arena. Tristans, Caracals, Vexors, Dragoons, that's just the last few ships I've come across that have been 'stabbed-up' to avoid combat.

This is just another tool for farmers, a situation that CCP is allowing to get way too far out of hand.

Having to fit 3 Warp Disruptors on my Condor just to try and point a target is crazy and gimps my ships against anything that actually might want to fight.

Please help the PVP pilots as people are losing faith in FW as a PVP environment.

p.s If you do make this change, please make sure that Ventures cannot get into plexes either.

Thank you. Taka.

smells like butthurt cause they were denied a kill.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-01-08 19:23:53 UTC
Seranova Farreach wrote:
Takanuro wrote:
Faction Warfare is for PVP, this is how CCP market it.

Scenario:

You see a Tristan on scan at a novice plex. You warp to said plex and activate the gate. You discover it's a valid war target, lock target, activate Scram or Disruptor but wait.....War Target warps off.

My suggestion is that Warp Core Stabilisers are not capatible with the Acceleration gates into FW Plexes. If we are all here to PVP then Warp Core Stabilisers have no place in the combat arena. Tristans, Caracals, Vexors, Dragoons, that's just the last few ships I've come across that have been 'stabbed-up' to avoid combat.

This is just another tool for farmers, a situation that CCP is allowing to get way too far out of hand.

Having to fit 3 Warp Disruptors on my Condor just to try and point a target is crazy and gimps my ships against anything that actually might want to fight.

Please help the PVP pilots as people are losing faith in FW as a PVP environment.

p.s If you do make this change, please make sure that Ventures cannot get into plexes either.

Thank you. Taka.

smells like butthurt cause they were denied a kill.



Still, I'd rather hear QQ from FW players that want kills they so rightly deserve than to listen to QQ from high sec gankers, griefers, and deccers that think they earn every kill they get as if it were any more difficult than blowing up NPCs...
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#27 - 2013-01-08 19:47:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
ccp should motivate people to stay in plexes and fight, i don't think that banning items helps.

alternative proposal:
timer reset if you warp off. This will make everyone think twice if its still worth it to play the pve game in FW

this is a fix which tries to address the root of the problem, if stabs where bannded pve players would just warp earlier.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#28 - 2013-01-08 21:46:06 UTC
FW is what it is, there are people who were in it before you were, who dealt with the same ****. You've pretty much only got two options:

1) Take the pirates way out and don't run plexes, gate camps with some friends will provide you with your WT kills.

or

2) Quit Crying and just Suck It Up.
Guns nButter
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2013-01-08 23:31:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Guns nButter
Maybe i'm a little naive but... t2 hictor points with a focus script have a 30km range. Isn't that enough?
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#30 - 2013-01-08 23:46:50 UTC
lol, this is very true, though IDK if that would be considered overkill or not
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#31 - 2013-01-09 00:18:39 UTC
If I post a thread saying nerf point/scram as its unfair a 5 million dollar isk rifter can lock my 200 mil isk ship I'd be told:

A. waaaah, suck it up, l2p, etc
B. fit a warp stab

What exaclty is wrong with what the plex runner is doing? They opted for plan B. The much better option than dying like a muppet under plan A.

CBA assed to e-stalk you op for time played but you do know ccp have over patches boosted the pve bene's of FW to get people into it, right?

The older days pickings were slim. If a player wnet 0.0 he got his pvp and his 30 mil a tick average payouts when carebearing. Went WH'ing, sleeper poop pays well. And there was FW...lots of work, less payout. So ccp over time has been fixing this.

If you want pure pvp action you will have to go piewat or look at non sov wanting crews like RK. They generally only pvp. Its how they make their isk. Anything else and yes you will get you people who like their pve and pvp mixed to varying degrees.

Unless a feature was added I missed, typing amarr victor or whatever role play saying the other FW RP neckbeards use in the window to buy a ship doe not get it for free when they are buying replacement ships. And it sure as hell does not buy plex at the current wtf high prices (I remember plex being 300 mil or lower).
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#32 - 2013-01-09 02:00:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Felsusguy
No. If they want to use warp stabilizers, that's fine. What's next, no MWDs in Plexes because it's for PVP, and if it's PVP there are warp jammers? Warp core stabilizers are to allow you to warp away even if jammed, not to prevent PVP. If you don't want to die, don't die. Besides, warp core stabilizers are underpowered as is. They horribly reduce your ability to lock onto targets and require multiple of them to work against scramblers. Farming is bad, but warp core stabilizers are a completely legitimate and viable option to escape from an unwinnable fight.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#33 - 2013-01-09 02:57:43 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
No. If they want to use warp stabilizers, that's fine. What's next, no MWDs in Plexes because it's for PVP, and if it's PVP there are warp jammers? Warp core stabilizers are to allow you to warp away even if jammed, not to prevent PVP. If you don't want to die, don't die. Besides, warp core stabilizers are underpowered as is. They horribly reduce your ability to lock onto targets and require multiple of them to work against scramblers. Farming is bad, but warp core stabilizers are a completely legitimate and viable option to escape from an unwinnable fight.


Please define "unwinnable fight".

Have you ever participated in Faction Warfare? Do you know anything about Faction Warfare Plexes?

Warp stabs have a place and that place is on small, high-value haul ships, not in the low-slots of FW farmers.
Samuel Wess
Doomheim
#34 - 2013-01-09 06:03:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Samuel Wess
I don't know much about fw, but i have a friend that quit eve/fw, and was just because of spending 1 week in
it and only finding stabbed frigates :)
Stabs are good, fw mechanics could be improved it seems.

Walk into the club like "What up? I got a big cockpit!"
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#35 - 2013-01-09 06:19:13 UTC
Alaekessa wrote:


Warp stabs have a place and that place is on small, high-value haul ships, not in the low-slots of FW farmers.


Lol.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Titus Veridius
Calamitous-Intent
#36 - 2013-01-09 06:56:55 UTC

The only reason stabs became so prevalent in FW space was because Faction Warfare got buffed and made profitable. Because orbiting plexes for 5-10min in stabbed merlins was easy, people did it.

But.........

We wouldn't be having this discussion if FW didn't get changed. FW rarely got mentioned before 2012. It wasn't important and few people did it. Now that there are hundreds of people flying around FW all day, you are complaining that alot of them are stabbed.

If it wasn't for the changes that made stabbing merlins popular you wouldn't have the problem of finding so many people in every system flying around in ships to complain about.

So think about the chicken and egg logic there.

Imagine what you will know tomorrow.
Rancor Kane
Geuzen Inc
#37 - 2013-01-09 07:50:10 UTC
Takanuro wrote:
Rancor Kane wrote:
maybe we could make them useless just after jumping gates as well, so nasty ravens with 5 stabs that get away from a gate camp.

Shields and armor should also be deactivated when I try to shoot someone they keep my damage from it's true potential.

If he leaves the plex he's done farming that one and can only continue when you leave the plex again. good job.







I am not suggesting anything about the effectiveness of warp core stabilisers or stargate mechanics. Please comprehend the OP.

I am just proposing an idea as FW has severe problems with plex farming that go against the spirit and purpose of the FW feature of EVE. Please troll somewhere else.



And I was quite serious, sarcastic maybe, but quite serious.

If a system is broken, because of 1 mod, the system wasn't right in the first place.

But the system isn't broken.

FW community wanted a way to earn a buck, as well as doing FW, aside from the missions since they would redirect you from the taking of plexes-> systems. A sollid request, I can remember having a hard time in my early FW period, to keep the ISk crane running, while the hull where shot from under my Pod.

Second request was to bring more meaning to the capture of systems, they did this by station block and by placing datacores to the LP stores of factions.

Now from and endless sea of empty systems FW lowsec turned to a rather high populated area, because people could earn a buck, people would need the Datacore's for their industrial alt's ect ect.

And people started to use the new options to their best intrest, mind not your best intrest, just as the rest of EVE.

NO where in FW is it stated that you need to engage the enemy, when he arives, and even way beore FW was profitable people would flee a plex when someone entered, no change is going to make people engage you if they think they have the disadvantage, nor should it.

You want to get rid of the farmers, remove the profit, though mind that instead of people fleeing you have a hard time inding any people at al, not to mention more than half the FW players claimimg to be Die hards (not saying they aren't) have farming alts them self.

Reconsider your tactics, fly in packs, and take your hits and quit yapping about people using the best tactic to counter your attacks.
Aemonn Ikari
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-01-09 09:24:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Aemonn Ikari
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Keep in mind also that warping around ON GRID is a valid and sometimes very successful tactic in PVP. In a plex, I might set up a bunch of bounce points all 200km from one another ahead of time, then as soon as you get there, I can engage you, and essentially dictate the range of battle without having to entirely rely on prop mods


You can't warp around in plexes and on grid with the acceleration gate. The mechanics of FW plexes completely eliminate tactical warping, you always land directly at the acceleration gate when warping and not at your actual target.

Even without warp core stabs, if you pay attention to d-scan an enemy pilot won't be able to catch you inside a plex, as you usually have sufficient time to align and warp out before they enter. This is a valid tactic, you don't have to take the fight if the enemy comes with vastly superior numbers or shiny ships.

Fitting warp core stabilizers in almost all cases means that you don't intend to ever fight. There are some exceptions, especially if you are using weapons that don't need targeting, but this change would still hit almost exclusively farmers, mostly those that don't pay enough attention to d-scan, and not pilots that intend to fight.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#39 - 2013-01-09 09:44:29 UTC
There's also the option of getting in a Tornado and waiting away from the acceleration gate and giving said farmer some alpha.

Friends
nikon56
UnSkilleD Inc.
#40 - 2013-01-09 09:51:02 UTC  |  Edited by: nikon56
Alaekessa wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
No. If they want to use warp stabilizers, that's fine. What's next, no MWDs in Plexes because it's for PVP, and if it's PVP there are warp jammers? Warp core stabilizers are to allow you to warp away even if jammed, not to prevent PVP. If you don't want to die, don't die. Besides, warp core stabilizers are underpowered as is. They horribly reduce your ability to lock onto targets and require multiple of them to work against scramblers. Farming is bad, but warp core stabilizers are a completely legitimate and viable option to escape from an unwinnable fight.


Please define "unwinnable fight".

Have you ever participated in Faction Warfare? Do you know anything about Faction Warfare Plexes?

Warp stabs have a place and that place is on small, high-value haul ships, not in the low-slots of FW farmers.

wcs place is on any ship provided the pilot is willing to scrifice his trageting range and sig radius for an additional warp strenght point.

it's like the cloacking device, can be fitted to any ship, giving you a serious advantage provided you accept the drawback.

everything has a counter in eve, disrupt / scram have WCS.

guess what, wcs can be countered too, learn to do it, if they are smart enought to counter you, then be smart and counter them.

add point, whether it is using more mods, faction mods, specific ships (lachesis / arazu anyone?) or the perfect counter, hictors.


there are solution, no need to ban anything from anywhere.

i often "miss" kills because of WCS, but that's how the game works.

i adapted, and changed fitting, or asked friend to use his seboed hictor -> problem solved

what will it be next time, ban ECM drones / mods, because even when i point him, he managed to ECM me and warp off?

or nano fiber and polycarbon mods, cause man, this stabber is sooo fast against my armor vexor i cannot get in range?