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The Venture needs a nerf?
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Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2013-01-08 20:24:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Oxandrolone
Sir John Halsey wrote:
Oxandrolone wrote:
The main problem is not the warp core strength and its so hard to tackle them....

The problem is with a perfect skilled virtue scanner you need to go to 1.00 AU which is mostly gonna be atleast 2 scans and then when you dictor lands with them it has about 3 seconds before it can drop a bubble meanwhile the venture aligns and warps in about 1.5 seconds.

The only way to catch one who is paying attention is too pre-bm the sight (so you dont have to scan it)

and then warp there in a cloaky T3 with +3 jam strength and decloak it with a bumb so it doesnt align and warp off before you cloaking delay ends. Or cloaky with smartbombs i guess might work.


Tackle it is not a problem.
If they are afk you can easily kill them.
You have mods to tackle them ;) ... Actually you can do it with one mod only.

If they are in your hole and you can't kill them, you are doing it wrong:
In your hole you should already have the ladar/radar scanned + all incoming WHs.
You can either warp to ladar cloaked, bookmark fly dictor and bubble or warp a regular ship to make them run back to the exit WH which is bubbled.

Pick your poison.

There is one more case ... smart people ... you won't be able to kill them anyway which makes all this chit chat about the +2 stab useless :)



what if as in 100% of my case they are not in your home, and you need to combat them, you need 2 scans where your combats are on d-scan thats atleast 12 seconds. then you got to warp to them also on d-scan and even when you enter grid they can align and warp before you land and can drop a bubble, all of this without a single module.

i dont minf if they fit warp core stabs, or jammers, or prop mods to get away. but now they got a stupid ore hold so they dont need to fit low-slots to make them better miners (expanders)

they shouldnt only be killable while afk...
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#62 - 2013-01-08 20:28:36 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Ayeson wrote:

So you think people are entitled to kills because they can scan? They they deserve to be spoon fed a kill because they can land on grid with someone?


Do you think fitting an extra point requires more skill that combat scanning someone without them seeing you?



Why on earth do you see them as exclusive Big smile

Maybe some players are just more skilled?

Like for example being skilled enough to both fit a ship, and scan, and they deserve this much coveted, defenseless mining frigate kill... and not you Shocked

Also, miner gank is a miner gank, barges and such could all be stabbed up to +10 for all I care.

.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2013-01-08 21:04:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
I don't disagree with you mate and personally i don't feel that it's worth my time trying to catch one... But some people have posted KM's in here where they have fielded a half a billion isk fleet to kill one of these little buggers, like we should be impressed or something Straight

Personally i feel that with their current abilities, it's more down to luck than player skill as to whether you catch a venture. (i.e. they are afk)

I think CCP could have made the venture just as viable without going to the extreme that they did and then maybe in the future they could have added cruiser size ship that performed similar to the venture.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
QT McWhiskers
EdgeGamers
#64 - 2013-01-08 21:08:37 UTC  |  Edited by: QT McWhiskers
This thread has given my time in the bathroom on the clock tons of joy. You have seriously validated my time spent in here. The venture is cheap, its hard to scan, it requires extra points, it can go 2k ms and it can hold 5000m3.

My old gassing cyclone aligned in 12 seconds, had 3 stabs, and could only go 200ms. Neither one has been killed by gankers. I, usually, pay attention to dscan so therefore I am hard to gank. Should I be nerfed?
M Thomas
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#65 - 2013-01-08 21:12:22 UTC
The +2 warp strength is completely necessary and justified because it very likely directly led to the creation of this epic fail thread.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2013-01-08 21:15:02 UTC
Did it? Read the op again... Lol

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
M Thomas
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#67 - 2013-01-08 21:19:19 UTC  |  Edited by: M Thomas
Given the warp strength was the first thing mentioned and also given you bothered to create this thread, I assumed you attempted to tackle one with an expensive cloaky T3 (but obviously without a +3 scram fitted) and it got away. How dare it.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2013-01-08 21:30:52 UTC
No not at all... it's not rocket science to realise you need 2 scrams to catch one. But i think i have explained my feeling multiple times already.

This was intended to be a discussion thread but some of you guys interpreted it as a whine thread. Sad

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2013-01-08 22:22:38 UTC
just happened again. 0.5 AU in perfect scanner with virtues, ******* ridiculous
Sith1s Spectre
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2013-01-08 22:26:18 UTC
I've found with the ventures alot of people have become complacent with DScan or go afk.

I mean we found 2 ventures orbitting a cloud afk who proceeded to continue to orbit the cloud while we were giggling our asses off trying to hit them with t3 BCs.

I agree that the +2 warp core strength is a bit OTT for a cheap frig, but 9 times out of 10 we have a HIC/DIC.

TL:DR People who aren't watching Dscan will be caught and people who are will get away like usual (even in their cruisers/bcs)

Cheers,

Sith

Resident forum troll and fashion consultant
illy velo
Emergency and I
#71 - 2013-01-09 00:05:11 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
I can't really argue there.

I just hate the little *******. i know corps that have chosen to gas mine instead of shooting sleepers because it's "easier". Now what am i to do with all my t3's? Sad


Considering Exhale only allows 2 or 3 ship types in their plex fleets this should be great news for some of your corpies. As a Proteus / Tengu pilot I wasn't able to make any money while in Exhale. Now? Killing them backwater vital / instrumentals in our C5 statics nightly.

Seriously, the risk reward on venture fleet / instrumental is crazy good. Each ship is paid for in about 12 cycles on a C320.
Ayeson
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#72 - 2013-01-09 03:33:41 UTC
Like I said earlier, Ventures aren't hard to kill in sites...this one happened to be a grav

http://kb.hardknocksinc.net/index.php/kill_detail/4859/

I ♥ the orthrus
Rengas
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#73 - 2013-01-09 03:38:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Rengas
http://kb.vergeofcollapse.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18175

http://kb.vergeofcollapse.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18140

Nerf Venture indeed.



Edit: Creating functioning links is hard so you need to right click and open in new tab.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2013-01-09 08:55:42 UTC
Casirio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2013-01-09 09:00:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Casirio
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#76 - 2013-01-09 09:13:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Roime
Rek Seven wrote:
I don't disagree with you mate and personally i don't feel that it's worth my time trying to catch one... But some people have posted KM's in here where they have fielded a half a billion isk fleet to kill one of these little buggers, like we should be impressed or something Straight

Personally i feel that with their current abilities, it's more down to luck than player skill as to whether you catch a venture. (i.e. they are afk)

I think CCP could have made the venture just as viable without going to the extreme that they did and then maybe in the future they could have added cruiser size ship that performed similar to the venture.


I don't really think it's unreasonable to regard a cloaky Proteus with faction scram (or hell, faction scram+faction point) as a fairly standard part of an everyday wormhole gang. In many cases it's the mainline ship. Honestly. I sort of get your point (lolpun), but as what comes to our normal operations in w-space, the +2 wcs of Venture makes no difference, the Great Hammerhead of the Skies is my goto ship anyway.

I feel that the Venture was designed to promote risk-taking in low & null, where typical fleets really need to adapt... +1billion ISK cloaky tacklers aren't the norm there, like they are in w-space.

As what comes to your skill argument. that doesn't hold water, sorry. +2 wcs poses an equipment requirement from the ganker, player skill requirements are exactly the same.

.
Bliss20
PGA
#77 - 2013-01-09 10:17:48 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
you don't catch ventures at a ladar site, you catch them at the WH the run to when you spook them with combats on D.



What he said!
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#78 - 2013-01-09 10:34:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Lloyd Roses
QT McWhiskers wrote:
. I, usually, pay attention to dscan so therefore I am hard to gank. Should I be nerfed?


There is the proof. Nerf him!

Venture though is some quirky little beast. I love it, also just bought a t1 fitted sixpack of those to have my roommates giving gas sucking a shot!

I'm normally not that eager to gank ventures so I cba to care to much. I'd consider an autocannon-fitted hound though. Just for laughs and jiggles.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2013-01-09 10:46:14 UTC
Roime wrote:

As what comes to your skill argument. that doesn't hold water, sorry. +2 wcs poses an equipment requirement from the ganker, player skill requirements are exactly the same.


Well let's just agree to disagree on that one.

Thinking about it, i guess my main gripe stems from the fact i feel it has taken away from gameplay (for the hunters) and better kill mails. Sure, i could fit my ships specifically to overcome the +2 warp strength or organize a small fleet to kill a frigate but at the end of the day it's not worth the effort... Which is admittedly a matter of perspective.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#80 - 2013-01-09 11:21:47 UTC
Rgr, that's cool. I just see it in a way that you need to be exactly as ninja to sneak up on an alert miner, regardless of what kind of tackle module you need to have fitted on your ship.

About that perspective, true. I personally don't see, or get, much value from miner/other non-combatant kills. Sure, you can get valuable mails (lolminer pods worth a bil), and popping those Macks is in line with the Law of the Jungle, but I just feel kinda empty after the pod is gone.

Was it worth it for me? Was it worth it for the victim? Was it good or necessary for the game?

It certainly doesn't give me what I'm after for in this game.

Not even relevant, just shiptoasting. And I'll probably still pop the next Mack I see on scan, because, why not.

.