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What is wrong with Drake ? Why people ask for nerf ?
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Uncle Gagarin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-01-08 08:24:25 UTC
Hi,

I don't want to start flame war.
Please respond only with reasonable arguments.

Sincerely, I don't understand what is wrong with Drake, especially now after Heavy Missiles changes.
Does it really deserves a nerf ?
How about other battlecruisers ?

Cheers,
Lukas Flamesword
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-01-08 08:27:13 UTC
i think there are just people that hate the drake. the HM nerf was a nut-punch and now they just want to kill it
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
#3 - 2013-01-08 08:50:13 UTC
Since all tier 2 battlecruisers are probably getting slight nerf, the drake should not be an exception.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#4 - 2013-01-08 09:34:05 UTC
All t2 bc's need a nerf..

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Boudacca Sangrere
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-01-08 09:44:37 UTC
I think the problem is that BCs (and especially the Drake due to its great tank) makes T1 BS virtually obsolete. By the time you have the skills that a BS eclipses the BC, you can afford the T2 (faction) variant for even more pew pew.

B.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#6 - 2013-01-08 09:50:04 UTC
Nah, no nerf, I mission in my NH even though a Drake is cheaper it doesn't have the punch or durability of my NH, I am now running missions in a minnie BC better than the Drake I am very pleased with the performance.
No no no nerf.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-01-08 10:00:40 UTC
The main problem with the drake is its massive EHP, a BC shouldnt reach BS levels of tank without sacrificing more then it does.
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#8 - 2013-01-08 10:03:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Danny John-Peter
HMLs received a nerf which has improved things, before then Drakes would push 400DPS out to 80 and have silly EHP/Resists for a BC.

Now that they are more reasonable, HAM Drakes are pretty FOTM and are fairly powerful, they are probably in need of some form of change as the Tank/Gank ratios are very good on a HAM Drake and since the HAM buff DPS application isn't as much of an issue any longer making those DPS numbers much more actually achievable.

We shall see in the long term how the strength of the HAM drake falls into CCPs plans for Tier 2 BCs which are in general in need of some form of nerfing.

That being said the T1 Cruiser buff has gone a long way to removing Tier 2 BCs from their prideful positions as the general use weight category in EVE.

TLDR HML Drakes > Fine Now, HAM Drakes > Probably OP Now.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-01-08 10:24:17 UTC
people always want to nerf whatever is FOTM

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#10 - 2013-01-08 10:29:41 UTC
mostly because of tears from past ... after massive cruiser buff now and introduction of the tier3s ... there is nobody flying drake trains now ....

It is more or less about newbs screaming nerf that because i was killed by that so easy .... well ...

you have to know what u can fight and when u need bail ....
Uncle Gagarin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-01-08 10:51:38 UTC
I'm affraid that voices to nerf Drake are coming from pilots who never flied that brick.

Regarding Drake Vs. BS tank:
don't you think that it's not a problem with Drake or other BC, it's problem with BS is wide aspect ?

T1 (regular, not pirate/faction) BS are pretty unusable, at least speaking about Caldari:
- problems with Caldari BS weaponry (railguns are weak, Cruise Missiles/Torpedos doesn't apply damage well) render BS worse than BC.
Problem with railguns pushes Ferox out of the table. For long range to weak, for short range Ferox is too slow to catch anything and not be kitted.
- for lvl4 missions they are too slow and to week against small enemies, especially now when AI was changed and there is problem with keeping drones alive.
- for WH space c1, c2, c3 they are too big, they collapse WH too quick so keeping a BS in WH just to fly in your own is kidn of nonsense. BC and Tech3 cruisers are much better for that. Plus weaknesses listed in aspect of lvl4 missioning.
- for PvP in LS - they are just to immobile, and too fragile for smaller opponents.

Maybe solution would be mission difficulty change ?
Makeing lvl2 slightly more difficult, lvl3 like actual lvl4 and lvl4 like lvl5 with difference in where they are played (HiSec for lev4 LS for lvl5) ?
With reviewed missions difficulty ships will be more useful:
- lvl1 for frigates/destroyers
- lvl2 for cruisers (or frigates/destroyers small fleet with logistics)
- lvl3 for BC (or cruisers small fleet with logistics)
- lvl4 for BS and small fleet with logistics, any solo BC should vaporize there ...
- lvl5 keep them as is now
Perihelion Olenard
#12 - 2013-01-08 13:17:51 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
people always want to nerf whatever is FOTM

It's been a popular flavor for far more than a month.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#13 - 2013-01-08 15:36:59 UTC
Base shield regen time for BCs needs a nerf.
Uncle Gagarin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-01-08 15:40:04 UTC
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
Base shield regen time for BCs needs a nerf.


Why ?
It's not a discussion when you put your "wish" without arguments to support it.
Jazmyn Stone
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-01-08 16:21:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jazmyn Stone
Problem wasn't really with the Drake. The Drake was fine as it was. The problem was with the other BCs. They use hybrids, projectiles and lasers. Even with the best of skills, turrets have a hard time hitting the smaller things. So, tracking mods are used in place of shield, armor, or damage mods. The heavy's of the Drake could take care of just about everything even with their exp rad.

What CCP should have been done was to increase the tracking speed of the turrets . Some slots would then be available for defense or damage, bringing them up to the Drakes' level.

I haven't use my Tengu for L4s in a long time, and now with the nerf, I see no sense of using it. (It was great in WWC, picking everything off at 100-120km. Now it only hits about 85.)

imho


-Jaz

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-01-08 16:45:17 UTC
Jazmyn Stone wrote:
Problem wasn't really with the Drake. The Drake was fine as it was. The problem was with the other BCs. They use hybrids, projectiles and lasers. Even with the best of skills, turrets have a hard time hitting the smaller things. So, tracking mods are used in place of shield, armor, or damage mods. The heavy's of the Drake could take care of just about everything even with their exp rad.

What CCP should have been done was to increase the tracking speed of the turrets . Some slots would then be available for defense or damage, bringing them up to the Drakes' level.

I haven't use my Tengu for L4s in a long time, and now with the nerf, I see no sense of using it. (It was great in WWC, picking everything off at 100-120km. Now it only hits about 85.)

imho


-Jaz


Undock moar... Ever tried to hit interceptors with hml out of a drake? Try it and see how much dmg you do. Hint: it's in the single digits.

Drake's issue was never dps, it's tank. You get BS lvl buffer out of a cheapboat, and goons can afford lots of cheapboats... Missiles were considered jokes until someone figured out the drake's buffer is worth it. They use it for the buffer, despite missiles, not because of missiles. Ever wondered why missile nerf didn't kill off drake blobs? Oh yeah, they've still got the buffer. Thanks for the Caracal nerf. It really needed it.Roll
Jazmyn Stone
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-01-08 21:17:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jazmyn Stone
sabre906 wrote:

Undock moar... Ever tried to hit interceptors with hml out of a drake? Try it and see how much dmg you do. Hint: it's in the single digits.

Drake's issue was never dps, it's tank. You get BS lvl buffer out of a cheapboat, and goons can afford lots of cheapboats... Missiles were considered jokes until someone figured out the drake's buffer is worth it. They use it for the buffer, despite missiles, not because of missiles. Ever wondered why missile nerf didn't kill off drake blobs? Oh yeah, they've still got the buffer. Thanks for the Caracal nerf. It really needed it.Roll



think moar . . . oh, c'mon, the drones are for things like the interceptors, ( I didn't want to write a frackin book, and fyi I've run hundreds and hundreds of missions!)

I agree, that the dps wasn't the issue. By freeing up a slot here and there on the other BCs, they too could have a better tank.

-Jaz

PS Just read what was written, not what you read into it.

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
Uncle Gagarin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-01-09 05:06:03 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Drake's issue was never dps, it's tank.
You get BS lvl buffer out of a cheapboat, and goons can afford lots of cheapboats...
(...)
Ever wondered why missile nerf didn't kill off drake blobs? Oh yeah, they've still got the buffer.


Well, I don't believe that nerfing any ship will solve a problem with goons or other group using that ship ib blob.

What I suppose will happen after let say 30% Drake tank nerf:

1. Goons will raise blob size by 30% or 35% to counteract a nerf.
2. Goons will continue a successfull Drake-blob tactics, now they will call it postnerf_Drake_blob tactics.
3. Anyone outside of Goons will be harmed. Any small roam pvp groups, any mission runners.
Again ANYONE BUT GOONS will be harmed by Drake nerf....
4. If Goons will not raise blob size they will use another ship to implement blob tactics.
And then what ? After 6 months another one will be nerfed ?

If those who will really feel Drake nerf are casual missioners and young pilots starting WH life in C2
then what is offered for them to counteract a nerf ?
What happens to Caldari ? They don't have other ship suitable for pilot with less than 10mln SP.
They don't have a drone boat, they don't have viable turret platform.
Ferox is not an option for missions. Same regarding Naga.
Skilling to Tengu (will remaind postnerf-Tengu) takes a lot of time to fly it right. What before Tengu ?
BS are not an option. As I already mentioned - you can't use them in WH and many other situations.
Skilling tech2 BS weaponry takes too long for young players to be an alternative. They also need a lot of supporting/fitting skills.

The point is - it's not a problem with Drake.
You can kill any ship in game when you are part of large enough blob of rookie ships.
So what to do ? Nerf rookie ships ?

Another example. Look at russian tank T-34. It is called "tank which won WW2".
It wasn't any better than German tanks.
It was even worse than them.
It was just used in fast moving blob.
That won the war. Russians had just bigger blobs.

Cheers,
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#19 - 2013-01-09 05:14:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Inkarr Hashur
You convinced me. Drake needs a buff. Great job! Roll

edit: In all seriousness you can stop with the sky is falling stuff, the balancing patch to the battlecruisers will make all the T1 BCs much better in exchange for whatever CCP decides to do with the harby, drake, myrm, and hurricane. The drake isn't the only ship getting the beatdown so just adapt.
Bruce Kemp
Suddenly taken over
#20 - 2013-01-09 07:40:08 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
people always want to nerf whatever is FOTM


FOTM!!!

Drake has had its massive EHP since it was released. Shocked
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