Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This is why I suggested a mass limit, Derath, since it would prevent the big guys from getting a large enough force in quickly to do such a huge amount of damage. The module, I presume, would not be that hard to destroy and thus would require a very ferocious defense to keep up. Making invasions difficult, and giving the defending side incentive to be offensive instead of just guarding POS's. Possibly even keeping the stabilizer up to invade on the opposing team's side.

the only one per WH system would limit a force to only holding two systems connected at a time, however with a POS revamp and adequate PI in both systems you could keep them both running perpetually if you had a proper shipping rout. And with the mass limit, that would be like one freighter per day. Then it slowly recharges, giving an indicator of how much mass it can transfer at the time on the info section, rather than resetting at downtime. Which could also screw over invaders because you could just jump an absurd mass phobos through it, and then use the disruption bubbles to lower the mass on the way back. Meaning you could cripple the kind of fleet an invader can bring.

I kinda Feel that the Nay sayers are stretching to find a reason to hate this idea a little too hard.


Ok,

The limitations he has placed on this idea help to make this a challenging aspect of WH life, while at the same time making Wh space more expansive, and risky at the same time.


First, as the OP has stated, these WH stabilizers would only be usable for Wh's connecting two Wh systems.
Basically, you could use some Lore aspect stating that since this allows sleepers to slip into normal space, Concord has scanners on stations and gates even in null sec, and in the event that a Wh stabilizer is deployed in even null sec, they will show up and destroy it and the person deploying it as is posses a threat to everyone.

On top of that. Since each WH system is limited to one stabilizer per system, and since a stabilizer is required on both sized of the WH, than a corp/alliance would be unable to have any more than two conjoined WH systems at a time.
Thus, they would not be able to turn WH space into normal space by joining several Wh systems together using these.

This would be nothing more than allowing corps/alliances to expand into second Wh system, while still retaining ties to their original system.


Second, he has established that the mass allowance of an asteroid would still deteriorate, however, the stabilizer would hold the Wh open, and either refresh in size after 24hrs, or would slowly replenish the mass availability of the WH.
Personally, I like the idea of it replenishing over time, but a 24hr refresh would be easiest.

This means, a stabilized Wh would still be limited to the same amount of m3 passing through it in a 24hr period.
a class 1 Wh would still only allow x amount of mass through it within 24hrs, but you would have the benefit of retaining that connection to be used again after it refreshed.


Third, this does not make assaulting, securing, or exploring WHs any easier.
In order to assault a WH system, you must first have a connection to that system.
Well, one might say a link is provided by the stabilizer, however, if another corp/alliance placed the stabilizer, than odds are they have secured both systems. You as the assaulter can break the link, thus cutting off ties and any reinforcements, or, you can attempt to hold the link open so that you can assualt both systems, but this requires you to have security on both sides to defend the stabilizers.

That said, as a defender, if you wish to retain that link so that you can reinforce and/or retreat, then you must maintain security on your stabilizers. However, if you are defending and would wish to retreat and/or just completely break away from the assaulted system in order to keep your enemy from reaching your second system, then you could destroy the stabilizer yourself, thus collapsing the hole.


Basically, what I'm getting at is that this not only provides more depth for Wh dwellers in both strategy and gameplay, but it also provides more availability of content for Wh dwellers.

As a personal example, I myself spent a little over a month in a Class 2 Wh.
However, for the last 2 weeks I was in the Wh, NOTHING was spawning except for connecting Wh's.
There were no sites at all.
Well, we could always explore into other Wh systems, but there was a slight issue with this.
If we opened the WH and there was someone else present in that system, then we could simply move mass to collapse the Wh.
However, if we found an un-occupied Wh, well, it was basically a 1 day event, and was limited by the amount of ships we could send into the adjacent system.

Now, if we has a Wh stabilizer, we could have established a colony on both sides prefering to take the risks.
Someone could have taken advantage of that, but that's the risks.

Now, lets say we came into a system that was occupied, but, didn't have a bridged system to it. Well, we could either collapse the gate, or attempt to build a bridge ourselves thus allowing for an easier assault.
Well, this could be a good thing, however, if they overpower us, we may have just given them a bridge to us as well.

So, reguardless of whether you're attacking with a bridge, defending your bridge, or defending against a bridge, the fact of the matter is..

Allowing for this not only broadens the capabilities of WH dwellers, but also provides for more depth in WH gameplay...

something to consider in your proposal, is that this would allow anyone to literally steamroll somoene else's holding if they play outside their TZ. imagine us logging in to a combined exhale/DoA/starbridge fleet consisting not of what they were ABLE to get into our hole, but EVERYTHING they WANTED in our hole, we could be facing 50+dreads. fact is, it unbalances WH sapce and contributes to blob mechanics like nullsec. even with the DAILY mass limits, it would still allow a fairly quick buildup of forces.

Also to add there is a 3 hour time limit on putting these things up, so if someone wanted to use this to role systems it would not be very time efficient. The added set up take down time is to prevent this from happening. Also the mass limitations would prevent you from putting more than the original wh could hold. Which is a dople edged sword in a way. Means if you max it out and one system gets invaded you effectivly shut yourself off from the other side. Meaning no reinforcements or escape through the stabelizer. Yet another risk of the device.

I am gonna leave it how it is for now and see how it develops. Let the people figure out how the thing is gonna line up with the wh is it gonna encompass it or just hang below or above. Any positive ideas or encouragement are welcomed.

Sorry mate, but i'm going to shoot it down.

The whole point of wormholes is that they are non-static in nature. Any module or item that would change this is kinda ruining the point.

Other than that I think most arguments against this have been raised by my peers, so I'll rest my case.

Can't believe I'm feeding this, but adding a slew of arbitrary limitations into a sandbox game is Bad (tm), mkay? And you still want it to be easier to connect to broskies for easy reinforcements, or for easy static farming, or any other wide range of logistical buffs the mind can imagine. Basically, you want to fundamentally change wormhole mechanics ... to your own benefit.

Again, if you don't like the wormhole mechanics, which I'll say again are probably the closest thing to perfect CCP has ever done, Nullsec is *points* that way. It addresses your needs surrounding the wormhole stabilizers except that it allows potential targets to counter-drop forces on you, evening the odds.

If anything should change in W-Space mechanics, it's the fact that escalated Sleeper sites should despawn at downtime, whether finished or not, ending the abuse of Sleeper respawns in partially-completed sites.

You appear to have not noticed the movement of mass restrictions. Nor payed attention to my point there, the point is that it keeps logistics and expansion difficult but not ridiculously so between two points.

I can agree with some of that, however others are kinda just dodging carefully around some select parts of the upsides and downsides to this as it seems many of the antagonists of these ideas do.

Anyways, the ideas here thus far that I have pointed out:
Structure would be weak, however able to kept alive under sustained fire from a mid-sized ish fleet.(maybe 10 battleships worth of dps) by four or five logi/a carrier. Meaning you can mount a defensive.

The structure takes its own skill to keep running, consumes fuel(making it hard to run already in WH space unless you have very good PI and industrial POS's stop sucking ass) and would reduce the spawns of wormholes within the systems they are in. Making getting stuff out of the hole harder.

It has a substantial mass limit, and that mass recharges ever so slowly. And unlike normal WH mechanics the mass cannot go negative, thus unless it can actively support the mass jumping through it with the current amount(10,000,000kg can't go through a hole that has only 9,999,999kg regenerated) making invasion and logistics actually harder since you wouldn't be able to fit a freighter through the hole unless it was a higher class system to begin with.


I'm also not exactly trying to gain favor of the whole WH community, but rather just look this over and see if it's an idea that could be used at any time in the future. It adds a new level of gaming to WH's.