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high-sec is too safe?

Author
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#41 - 2013-01-07 19:11:06 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
docking:
- interference from warp prevents you from locking
- interference from warp prevents you from locking
- interference from warp prevents you from locking
...
- target in invulnerable
- target in invulnerable
- target in invulnerable
...
- target is no longer present
(instadock)

undocking:
- target in invulnerable
- target in invulnerable
- target in invulnerable
....
- interference from warp prevents you from locking
(instaundock)

Yea. I guess high-sec is too safe. Not only for carebears but for anyone Cool


Because these messages are limited ONLY to highsec....Roll.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Haedonism Bot
People for the Ethical Treatment of Rogue Drones
#42 - 2013-01-07 19:45:17 UTC
This thread makes me want to ragequit General Discussion. Find something original to post about, or don't post at all.

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2013-01-07 21:06:46 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Tarvos Telesto wrote:
Null sec is to safe.

Nullbear rating alone in empty null system 20 jumps away from some hostile activity.
Somone wrote in intel chanel, looks like hostile moving to our dead end zone .
Nullbear: Yawn, still 20min left before i need warp to POS.

How does that make nullsec safe?


the fact that there's 0 chance of any one even being on grid with you if you're paying the slightest bit of attention to local and intel

But that's the catch, isn't it? You have to be paying attention. It doesn't matter how you fit your ship, you always have to be paying attention. In highsec, as long as you're not an idiot about ship fitting and you're not at war, you don't have to pay attention at all in order to stay safe. It's also not as if you have to take special precautions when traveling either.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Dave Stark
#44 - 2013-01-07 21:11:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Tarvos Telesto wrote:
Null sec is to safe.

Nullbear rating alone in empty null system 20 jumps away from some hostile activity.
Somone wrote in intel chanel, looks like hostile moving to our dead end zone .
Nullbear: Yawn, still 20min left before i need warp to POS.

How does that make nullsec safe?


the fact that there's 0 chance of any one even being on grid with you if you're paying the slightest bit of attention to local and intel

But that's the catch, isn't it? You have to be paying attention. It doesn't matter how you fit your ship, you always have to be paying attention. In highsec, as long as you're not an idiot about ship fitting and you're not at war, you don't have to pay attention at all in order to stay safe. It's also not as if you have to take special precautions when traveling either.


even if you're paying attention in high sec, null is still safer. in null everthing that isn't blue IS out to get you, that's not the case in high sec. therefore in high sec local is useless.

null sec rewards you for being at the keyboard, and punishes you for not being at the keyboard. conversely, it's really irrelevant if you're at the keyboard or not in high sec. in null sec you know people's intention ahead of time, unlike high sec.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#45 - 2013-01-07 21:41:31 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
March rabbit wrote:
docking:
- interference from warp prevents you from locking
- interference from warp prevents you from locking
- interference from warp prevents you from locking
...
- target in invulnerable
- target in invulnerable
- target in invulnerable
...
- target is no longer present
(instadock)

undocking:
- target in invulnerable
- target in invulnerable
- target in invulnerable
....
- interference from warp prevents you from locking
(instaundock)

Yea. I guess high-sec is too safe. Not only for carebears but for anyone Cool


As far as i know this works in all new eden not just in hisec. Idea
I know that catching yelow/red pilots outside undock area is sometimes difficult (they know how to fly), but that doesnt mean that you should pours out rage on hisec.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2013-01-07 23:08:44 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Yea. I guess high-sec is too safe. Not only for carebears but for anyone Cool


As far as i know this works in all new eden not just in hisec. Idea
I know that catching yelow/red pilots outside undock area is sometimes difficult (they know how to fly), but that doesnt mean that you should pours out rage on hisec.

1. this wasn't rage (well... maybe rage but a little). that was agreement with all of people saying that high-sec is too safe
2. i don't care about other areas. Eve is the sandbox after all. You've chosen wrong corner - have fun with it =)

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#47 - 2013-01-08 11:10:46 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Yea. I guess high-sec is too safe. Not only for carebears but for anyone Cool


As far as i know this works in all new eden not just in hisec. Idea
I know that catching yelow/red pilots outside undock area is sometimes difficult (they know how to fly), but that doesnt mean that you should pours out rage on hisec.

1. this wasn't rage (well... maybe rage but a little). that was agreement with all of people saying that high-sec is too safe
2. i don't care about other areas. Eve is the sandbox after all. You've chosen wrong corner - have fun with it =)


If you 'dont care about other areas' stop crying about how lame your stupid carebear system and playstyle are.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2013-01-08 11:15:19 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
Lady Spank wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Yea. I guess high-sec is too safe. Not only for carebears but for anyone Cool


As far as i know this works in all new eden not just in hisec. Idea
I know that catching yelow/red pilots outside undock area is sometimes difficult (they know how to fly), but that doesnt mean that you should pours out rage on hisec.

1. this wasn't rage (well... maybe rage but a little). that was agreement with all of people saying that high-sec is too safe
2. i don't care about other areas. Eve is the sandbox after all. You've chosen wrong corner - have fun with it =)


If you 'dont care about other areas' stop crying about how lame your stupid carebear system and playstyle are.

my 6-yo daughter has the same level of logic Lol

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#49 - 2013-01-08 11:27:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Hi sec is not safe at all. The consequences for doing certain actions in there are pre-defined and consistent (enough) though. And some times the consequence is "certain" exploding.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#50 - 2013-01-08 12:33:56 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Yeah, would be a super fun game to be instaganked even before you have situational awareness due to load times.
Why have cloaking after a jumpgate in any system? That's too safe.

- after jumping you find yourself 12 kilometers away from gates and need to do something (warp, burn back, whatever).
- after warping to station you find yourself maximum 2 kilometers away from station (if you warped to station from wrong side). Or you got into 0 and can dock immediately.
IMO these situations are little different.


That would be nice, being cloaked and 12 km away from the station after undocking. Would make high sec wars a lot more fun.

I never liked the undock mechanic anyway. I never liked the fact that you can't immediatley cloak after undocking despite being away more than 2km from the station. Sure, the overview still says 0km even after You fly quite some time away from the station but the holy cow named overview can be quite crapy at times.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#51 - 2013-01-08 17:25:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Dave stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Tarvos Telesto wrote:
Null sec is to safe.

Nullbear rating alone in empty null system 20 jumps away from some hostile activity.
Somone wrote in intel chanel, looks like hostile moving to our dead end zone .
Nullbear: Yawn, still 20min left before i need warp to POS.

How does that make nullsec safe?


the fact that there's 0 chance of any one even being on grid with you if you're paying the slightest bit of attention to local and intel

But that's the catch, isn't it? You have to be paying attention. It doesn't matter how you fit your ship, you always have to be paying attention. In highsec, as long as you're not an idiot about ship fitting and you're not at war, you don't have to pay attention at all in order to stay safe. It's also not as if you have to take special precautions when traveling either.


even if you're paying attention in high sec, null is still safer. in null everthing that isn't blue IS out to get you, that's not the case in high sec. therefore in high sec local is useless.

null sec rewards you for being at the keyboard, and punishes you for not being at the keyboard. conversely, it's really irrelevant if you're at the keyboard or not in high sec. in null sec you know people's intention ahead of time, unlike high sec.


Useless rationalizing. What you just said is "South Central Los Angeles is safer than Beverly Hills (despite the fact that more real intentional violence occurs in South Central) because you know there are gang-bangers in South Central, where as anyone driving an expensive car in Beverly Hills could possibly be out to kill you"

And it would be just as dumb in game as it sounded right here. Every neutral or even Red in null sec is not out to get you, so are just passing through trying to get home (or chasing a plex escalation tryign to get rich). And Some Blues ARE out to get you (they are called Awoxers) making all the intel channels and local watching useless.

In high sec if you aren't war decced, you don't have to look at local. if someone shoots at you without a wardecc or some kind of consensual engagement, THE GAME (CONCORD) kills them for you. No one can even restrict your access to stuff you store in stations, because those npc stations can be taken, so even you STUFF is safer.

Your post is a very good example of what I'm saying, and why i don't like high sec even though I sometimes play there. High sec not only keeps it's dwellers "safer" than they could be in any other section of space, like a real life modern welfare state it insulates them from actual reality, realites everyone outside of the coddled and protected state can see clearly. Too much high sec seems to warp one's mind to irrational jelly.
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#52 - 2013-01-08 19:29:38 UTC
IMO, Get off the undock and go do some real PVP in low or null.

Or don't, but don't complain about the mechanics. Undock ganking is lame, little more than 'accepted griefing' and you're not going to get the mechanics changed to support it even if it is your 'preferred gameplay style'
iskflakes
#53 - 2013-01-08 19:47:59 UTC
Highsec is both too safe and not safe enough. New players are too easily ganked, yet simultaneously highsec affords too much safety to older players.

I propose highsec should be split into tutorial systems and normal highsec. The tutorial systems should all be linked together by gates, with one or two gates to the rest of highsec (that carry warning messages). Players with more than 2 million skillpoints should not be allowed to enter tutorial space. Once this happens people will be more receptive to altering the safety of highsec.

That said, the real issue is not that highsec is too good, it's that nullsec and lowsec are too bad. CCP created nullsec stations as lesser versions of their highsec counterparts. They were both more risky and had fewer services. When there were significant rewards to be had for the individual player in nullsec, these stations were full. However the moment the reward vanished the stations emptied, and that is where we are stuck today. Centralised nullsec income promotes blobbing, which means no fights and no money for the grunt. With no incentive to journey to nullsec, many PVPers are overhunting highsec bears, which can only be bad for the game's future subscription count. There are more people harvesting tears right now than there are people to provide them.

-

Dave Stark
#54 - 2013-01-08 19:59:36 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Useless rationalizing. What you just said is "South Central Los Angeles is safer than Beverly Hills 9despite the fact that more real intentional violence occurs in South Central) because you know there are gang-bangers in South Central, where as anyone driving an expensive car in Beverly Hills could possibly be out to kill you"

And it would be just as dumb in game as it sounded right here. Every neutral or even Red in null sec is not out to get you, so are just passing through trying to get home (or chasing a plex escalation tryign to get rich). And Some Blues ARE out to get you (they are called Awoxers) making all the intel channels and local watching useless.

In high sec if you aren't war decced, you don't have to look at local. if someone shoots at you without a wardecc or some kind of consensual engagement, THE GAME (CONCORD) kills them for you. No one can even restrict your access to stuff you store in stations, because those npc stations can be taken, so even you STUFF is safer.

Your post is a very good example of what I'm saying, and why i don't like high sec even though I sometimes play there. High sec not only keeps it's dwellers "safer" than they could be in any other section of space, like a real life modern welfare state it insulates them from actual reality, realites everyone outside of the coddled and protected state can see clearly. Too much high sec seems to warp one's mind to irrational jelly.


what i said had nothing to do with los angeles so i'm going to totally ignore that paragraph because it's irrelevant to this discussion.

actually i'm going to ignore the rest of it too since it's also largely irrelevant.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2013-01-08 22:15:14 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
even if you're paying attention in high sec, null is still safer. in null everthing that isn't blue IS out to get you, that's not the case in high sec. therefore in high sec local is useless.

In null there are a LOT more people who are "not blue" than there are people in highsec who have both the ability and desire to blow up your ship despite the consequences of doing so.

As for the others, they're entirely avoidable by fitting your ship intelligently and avoiding WTs.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Dave Stark
#56 - 2013-01-08 22:18:24 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
even if you're paying attention in high sec, null is still safer. in null everthing that isn't blue IS out to get you, that's not the case in high sec. therefore in high sec local is useless.

In null there are a LOT more people who are "not blue" than there are people in highsec who have both the ability and desire to blow up your ship despite the consequences of doing so.

As for the others, they're entirely avoidable by fitting your ship intelligently and avoiding WTs.


how many isn't a concern when regarding how safe you are; knowing their intentions is far more important. knowing people's intentions in null is far easier than high sec.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#57 - 2013-01-08 22:27:59 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Useless rationalizing. What you just said is "South Central Los Angeles is safer than Beverly Hills 9despite the fact that more real intentional violence occurs in South Central) because you know there are gang-bangers in South Central, where as anyone driving an expensive car in Beverly Hills could possibly be out to kill you"

And it would be just as dumb in game as it sounded right here. Every neutral or even Red in null sec is not out to get you, so are just passing through trying to get home (or chasing a plex escalation tryign to get rich). And Some Blues ARE out to get you (they are called Awoxers) making all the intel channels and local watching useless.

In high sec if you aren't war decced, you don't have to look at local. if someone shoots at you without a wardecc or some kind of consensual engagement, THE GAME (CONCORD) kills them for you. No one can even restrict your access to stuff you store in stations, because those npc stations can be taken, so even you STUFF is safer.

Your post is a very good example of what I'm saying, and why i don't like high sec even though I sometimes play there. High sec not only keeps it's dwellers "safer" than they could be in any other section of space, like a real life modern welfare state it insulates them from actual reality, realites everyone outside of the coddled and protected state can see clearly. Too much high sec seems to warp one's mind to irrational jelly.


what i said had nothing to do with los angeles so i'm going to totally ignore that paragraph because it's irrelevant to this discussion.

actually i'm going to ignore the rest of it too since it's also largely irrelevant.


And that's a cop out, probably because you have to realize how silly your opinion is. Not knowing the intentions of others doesn't mean you are less safe, especially when most people in high sec mean you no harm.

More pvp deaths happen in null sec than in high sec. If you say "high sec is more dangerous for low level pve players than null sec" that statement would be true, but only because so many frigates get blown up in starter and low level missions.

Where, exactly is your evidence that high sec is safer? Rhetorical question, we all know you have none, that for folks like you (too many of whom reside in high sec) aren't evidence based thinkers. Here is evidence of why you are wrong.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2013-01-08 22:30:54 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
even if you're paying attention in high sec, null is still safer. in null everthing that isn't blue IS out to get you, that's not the case in high sec. therefore in high sec local is useless.

In null there are a LOT more people who are "not blue" than there are people in highsec who have both the ability and desire to blow up your ship despite the consequences of doing so.

As for the others, they're entirely avoidable by fitting your ship intelligently and avoiding WTs.


how many isn't a concern when regarding how safe you are; knowing their intentions is far more important. knowing people's intentions in null is far easier than high sec.

That's not at all true.
The cloaky pilgrim who just jumped into your ratting system could be solo ratter hunting, he could be setting up a black ops hot drop, or he could simply be setting his character up to AFK cloak in that system.
The catalyst that warped into your asteroid belt in highsec is probably not there to shoot rocks with you.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

The--Broker
Moon Goo Ltd
#59 - 2013-01-08 23:53:48 UTC
HI-SEC - Safe from what. I just cleaned out a Hi-sec corp for just under 6bill.

Please tell me how that is safe for the people crying that i just stole all their ****.

If you want to go arround popping people in hi sec to think your clever then thats your stupidity. grow some balls and think bigger. Do some work rather than running arround in cheep ships ganking noobs
Dave Stark
#60 - 2013-01-09 01:34:04 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Useless rationalizing. What you just said is "South Central Los Angeles is safer than Beverly Hills 9despite the fact that more real intentional violence occurs in South Central) because you know there are gang-bangers in South Central, where as anyone driving an expensive car in Beverly Hills could possibly be out to kill you"

And it would be just as dumb in game as it sounded right here. Every neutral or even Red in null sec is not out to get you, so are just passing through trying to get home (or chasing a plex escalation tryign to get rich). And Some Blues ARE out to get you (they are called Awoxers) making all the intel channels and local watching useless.

In high sec if you aren't war decced, you don't have to look at local. if someone shoots at you without a wardecc or some kind of consensual engagement, THE GAME (CONCORD) kills them for you. No one can even restrict your access to stuff you store in stations, because those npc stations can be taken, so even you STUFF is safer.

Your post is a very good example of what I'm saying, and why i don't like high sec even though I sometimes play there. High sec not only keeps it's dwellers "safer" than they could be in any other section of space, like a real life modern welfare state it insulates them from actual reality, realites everyone outside of the coddled and protected state can see clearly. Too much high sec seems to warp one's mind to irrational jelly.


what i said had nothing to do with los angeles so i'm going to totally ignore that paragraph because it's irrelevant to this discussion.

actually i'm going to ignore the rest of it too since it's also largely irrelevant.


And that's a cop out, probably because you have to realize how silly your opinion is. Not knowing the intentions of others doesn't mean you are less safe, especially when most people in high sec mean you no harm.

More pvp deaths happen in null sec than in high sec. If you say "high sec is more dangerous for low level pve players than null sec" that statement would be true, but only because so many frigates get blown up in starter and low level missions.

Where, exactly is your evidence that high sec is safer? Rhetorical question, we all know you have none, that for folks like you (too many of whom reside in high sec) aren't evidence based thinkers. Here is evidence of why you are wrong.


no, i just didn't read it because it had nothing to do with what i was talking about.