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Drones Aggro solution ! (AI System resolved)
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Sir John Halsey
#21 - 2013-01-07 16:04:45 UTC
CausticS0da wrote:
Akuma Tsukai wrote:
Cause morons like you do not understand that PVE isnt limited to lvl 4 missions (which simply became frustrating). Also this change brings major disbalance in PVE both ship and region wise. But ofc you need a lvl 1 reading and lvl 1 brain presence skills to understand that.


So what other pve are you talking about? Not sleeper obviously, not l4s as you say... FW missions, plexes? There is no difference when it comes to drones.

This thread is about drones, not NPCs switching aggro to other ships which IS a problem for L5s and for people who fleet up for pve.

L4s haven't got any more frustrating - unless you think scooping and redeploying a drone once or twice per mission is frustrating.

Where is the 'major' disbalance you speak of? Explain yourself or link the thread. You saying you can't be bothered is because you are talking rubbish and have nothing to back up what you're saying.

DRONES ARE FINE IN LEVEL 4 MISSIONS. In fact, I'm tempted to use a domi now as a main mission boat as doing 1k dps (998) while sitting in one place with epic damage projection and tracking and being immune to EWAR seems to be pretty good to me.

Outside grade school you won't win any fans without trying to back up your statements. The only hint you gave us is that 'missions aren't all pve'.

Meanwhile you are spreading disinformation and making noobs panic.


You can safely ignore that idiot.
He doesn't have the skills he is talking about: lvl 1 reading and lvl 1 brain presence :)
Hellfreak
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-01-07 20:37:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Hellfreak
Sir John Halsey wrote:
CausticS0da wrote:
Akuma Tsukai wrote:
Cause morons like you do not understand that PVE isnt limited to lvl 4 missions (which simply became frustrating). Also this change brings major disbalance in PVE both ship and region wise. But ofc you need a lvl 1 reading and lvl 1 brain presence skills to understand that.


So what other pve are you talking about? Not sleeper obviously, not l4s as you say... FW missions, plexes? There is no difference when it comes to drones.

This thread is about drones, not NPCs switching aggro to other ships which IS a problem for L5s and for people who fleet up for pve.

L4s haven't got any more frustrating - unless you think scooping and redeploying a drone once or twice per mission is frustrating.

Where is the 'major' disbalance you speak of? Explain yourself or link the thread. You saying you can't be bothered is because you are talking rubbish and have nothing to back up what you're saying.

DRONES ARE FINE IN LEVEL 4 MISSIONS. In fact, I'm tempted to use a domi now as a main mission boat as doing 1k dps (998) while sitting in one place with epic damage projection and tracking and being immune to EWAR seems to be pretty good to me.

Outside grade school you won't win any fans without trying to back up your statements. The only hint you gave us is that 'missions aren't all pve'.

Meanwhile you are spreading disinformation and making noobs panic.


You can safely ignore that idiot.
He doesn't have the skills he is talking about: lvl 1 reading and lvl 1 brain presence :)


Just for the drones bit in that semi-coherent raging- in level 5's if you deploy light drones to 9km, It is more than likely you will lose one before that elite frigate is dead. Today i deployed hobs on a scram/web frigate about that far out , when i noticed one was at 90% shield i recalled- 2 died elite frigate stayed alive in structure.. Sentries with a domi in level 5's you can pull back in in armor. I shouldnt have to say it but this is a needless pain in the as5 and waste of my time. CCP will realize how fully serious i am about keeping my accounts in 5 days and 16 hours.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#23 - 2013-01-07 22:39:41 UTC
Hellfreak wrote:


Just for the drones bit in that semi-coherent raging- in level 5's if you deploy light drones to 9km, It is more than likely you will lose one before that elite frigate is dead. Today i deployed hobs on a scram/web frigate about that far out , when i noticed one was at 90% shield i recalled- 2 died elite frigate stayed alive in structure.. Sentries with a domi in level 5's you can pull back in in armor. I shouldnt have to say it but this is a needless pain in the as5 and waste of my time. CCP will realize how fully serious i am about keeping my accounts in 5 days and 16 hours.


aye, and if you'd played all your career with drones and an AI that shot at drones, you'd have realised that leaving your drones on the frigates would have avoided turning on their MWDs, and that scoop range to a 9km frigate is only 7.5km. If you webbed the target right away, you could have followed your drones towards it, and as soon as they switched, you would have accelerated towards the brawl, and have been another km or two closer to retrieval at the critical point (which is a fair percentage of the travel distance actually required), and you would have only attempted to retrieve the drones after at least 1 frigate died, as the most dangerous frigate is the frigate that your MWD BLOOM drones are flying DIRECTLY AWAY from. Drifiting drones are at far less danger from frigates orbiting them, than they are from frigates they are leaving.

Granted those brief moments of paying a lot of attention take the finger off d-scan, but thats another story and another issue.
Dzajic
#24 - 2013-01-08 01:24:50 UTC
Only place where you could really afk from downtime to downtime and farm was a specific COSMOS site, and that was fixed/nerfed not so long ago. And there wasn't more than dozen people doing it.

For missions? If you wanted to afk it you got silly low effective dps and very long completion times so low isk/hr.
Hellfreak
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2013-01-08 02:43:56 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Hellfreak wrote:


Just for the drones bit in that semi-coherent raging- in level 5's if you deploy light drones to 9km, It is more than likely you will lose one before that elite frigate is dead. Today i deployed hobs on a scram/web frigate about that far out , when i noticed one was at 90% shield i recalled- 2 died elite frigate stayed alive in structure.. Sentries with a domi in level 5's you can pull back in in armor. I shouldnt have to say it but this is a needless pain in the as5 and waste of my time. CCP will realize how fully serious i am about keeping my accounts in 5 days and 16 hours.


aye, and if you'd played all your career with drones and an AI that shot at drones, you'd have realised that leaving your drones on the frigates would have avoided turning on their MWDs, and that scoop range to a 9km frigate is only 7.5km. If you webbed the target right away, you could have followed your drones towards it, and as soon as they switched, you would have accelerated towards the brawl, and have been another km or two closer to retrieval at the critical point (which is a fair percentage of the travel distance actually required), and you would have only attempted to retrieve the drones after at least 1 frigate died, as the most dangerous frigate is the frigate that your MWD BLOOM drones are flying DIRECTLY AWAY from. Drifiting drones are at far less danger from frigates orbiting them, than they are from frigates they are leaving.

Granted those brief moments of paying a lot of attention take the finger off d-scan, but thats another story and another issue.



This would be nice in a perfect world where i'm not in a battleship without a MWD. Not in a bs that is not neuted out. Not in a battleship that is webbed. Or i guess not in my Cap-chained battleships that have no webs or MWD's . Or if i had decided to fit a 100000MN MWD to my carrier. The level of micromanagement that you are suggesting is stupid. It really doesn't matter about the MWD Bloom of the drones when they are webbed- they just die. As someone who has spent their 'entire career ' with drones and AI that shot at them that should be an easy concept. I end up shooting elite frigates with cruise missiles because it is sadly faster and cheaper now. Its also pretty dumb right?
Rengerel en Distel
#26 - 2013-01-08 03:46:07 UTC
Ikshuki wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
The devs don't really read these forums. There's a post in the test server forum for feedback. If npcs never switched to drones, there are ships that would never even equip a weapon, and would have an uber permatank. The AI is a lot better than it was at release, and it mostly playable now.


Easy for someone to say that when they've already spent years perfecting their weapon skills and not thier drones skills, for those who actually uses drones as weapons this new drone AI is the same as removing the usefulness of all Gallente ships in any PvE roles, remember 67% of gallente ships are pure drone boats, might as well remove the Gallente race if ccp is going to kill drone boats, we all have our own styles of weapon choice to each of our own uniqueness


Um, i went vexor -> myrm -> domi -> rattlesnake. I think i know a little about drone boats. as others have said (repeatedly), level 4s are pretty playable now. lower level players have more issues. heavy drone boats have issues.

All that being said, the feedback thread is still in the test forum, and the devs still won't read this.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#27 - 2013-01-08 04:10:13 UTC
Hellfreak wrote:



This would be nice in a perfect world where i'm not in a battleship without a MWD. Not in a bs that is not neuted out. Not in a battleship that is webbed. Or i guess not in my Cap-chained battleships that have no webs or MWD's . Or if i had decided to fit a 100000MN MWD to my carrier. The level of micromanagement that you are suggesting is stupid. It really doesn't matter about the MWD Bloom of the drones when they are webbed- they just die. As someone who has spent their 'entire career ' with drones and AI that shot at them that should be an easy concept. I end up shooting elite frigates with cruise missiles because it is sadly faster and cheaper now. Its also pretty dumb right?


Oh god forbid you have difficult content in a level 5 mission. Honestly my heart bleeds.

I looked over the reports and the ones that I've done, dangerous frigate traps are not common. Some missions have no frigates. some missions start all frigates at range. some missions allow you to reposition during the prior fight, and very few missions are stuffing you through a gate into frigates or forcing you to be at place X when they spawn.

I suspect that you'll relearn a couple of target lists in missions that you will keep doing to ensure you sentry them first, you'll make a little sticky note on your monitor with a mission name or two to throw back, and you might change a fit for 1 mission and then you'll be done with it.

Yes things will go pear shaped if you aren't paying attention, but that is intended.
Hellfreak
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-01-08 05:03:16 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Hellfreak wrote:



This would be nice in a perfect world where i'm not in a battleship without a MWD. Not in a bs that is not neuted out. Not in a battleship that is webbed. Or i guess not in my Cap-chained battleships that have no webs or MWD's . Or if i had decided to fit a 100000MN MWD to my carrier. The level of micromanagement that you are suggesting is stupid. It really doesn't matter about the MWD Bloom of the drones when they are webbed- they just die. As someone who has spent their 'entire career ' with drones and AI that shot at them that should be an easy concept. I end up shooting elite frigates with cruise missiles because it is sadly faster and cheaper now. Its also pretty dumb right?


Oh god forbid you have difficult content in a level 5 mission. Honestly my heart bleeds.

I looked over the reports and the ones that I've done, dangerous frigate traps are not common. Some missions have no frigates. some missions start all frigates at range. some missions allow you to reposition during the prior fight, and very few missions are stuffing you through a gate into frigates or forcing you to be at place X when they spawn.

I suspect that you'll relearn a couple of target lists in missions that you will keep doing to ensure you sentry them first, you'll make a little sticky note on your monitor with a mission name or two to throw back, and you might change a fit for 1 mission and then you'll be done with it.

Yes things will go pear shaped if you aren't paying attention, but that is intended.


Agree with most of what you say here- at the same time realizing you apparently missed the point.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#29 - 2013-01-08 05:58:56 UTC
Dzajic wrote:
Only place where you could really afk from downtime to downtime and farm was a specific COSMOS site, and that was fixed/nerfed not so long ago. And there wasn't more than dozen people doing it.

For missions? If you wanted to afk it you got silly low effective dps and very long completion times so low isk/hr.


was making about 10m/hour in just bounties before they added drone damage amps. throwing 2 or more drone damage amps on sped it up a bit, dunno if I kept track of how much. my rattlesnake setup was about 700 dps out to 50km, and 500dps to 115km or drone control range. the ishtar setup was about 700dps to 35km, and 500dps to 80km.

hardest part imo was watching aggro as new spawns popped up, and paying enough attention to remember to move the ship into the next room, or get a new mission.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#30 - 2013-01-08 07:00:42 UTC
Hellfreak wrote:


Agree with most of what you say here- at the same time realizing you apparently missed the point.



if you think that the idea that small targets that are vulnerable to small drones in fact now notice and target small drones, and therefore you perceive small drones as useless, then no I do happen to understand that point and disagree.

The role for small drones is now somewhat complex. Instead of kill frigates, its kill frigates under favourable conditions. They also now may either succeed in that task and get you out of the scram or fail at that task and chaff you out of the scram briefly. if the elite frigates split and one stays on you then drones may win a fight they weren't supposed to etc.

Its kinda fun in reality, and a little more akin to what happens when you try rid yourself of a 'ceptor in PVP. First time I tried piloting a taranis, I failed abysmally at grasping that what a ceptor pilot does is tackle and then fight the anti frigate weapon systems. I'd only really got the tackle notion.
Suelou Starstrider
Fiscal Devination
#31 - 2013-01-08 18:05:13 UTC
Scien Inkunen wrote:
Far as I experinced so far, if you take the FULL aggro, your drones are safe.

It means that, you will be tanking (taking damage) and drone do the shooting (deal damage).

It's not advisable to have drones and other type of damage (missiles, guns...) - you can't achive good result with mixed damage (everyone says - do not mix guns).

So, stick with your drones, get the highest skills for them and tank.


you dont get full agro they change targets wakky wakky get with the programe
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#32 - 2013-01-08 18:17:23 UTC
They just need to roll-back AI the way it was before or should i say 9 years without a problem.
Sleeper AI should only have incursion rats and wh rats and maybe some special NPC's.

Because right now missions are worthless and stupid.
NPC's in missions are now way too hard for isk they give out.
Lots of TD, Sensor damps etc...
Myruanda Spacewalker
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-01-08 21:11:16 UTC
Spc One wrote:
They just need to roll-back AI the way it was before or should i say 9 years without a problem.
Sleeper AI should only have incursion rats and wh rats and maybe some special NPC's.

Because right now missions are worthless and stupid.
NPC's in missions are now way too hard for isk they give out.
Lots of TD, Sensor damps etc...



I really like the aggro switch they added with the patch they just should just not target drones.

By the way I like the sleepers AI I used drones in sleeper sites allot its simple once you loose the aggro get your drones back in take them out again and your good for a specific amount of time which makes them still usable in WH space.

Where as now in missions you cant have full aggro and they don't work as a timer. ( Elite cruisers engages my small drones all the time. )

+1 like : As far as taking notes to what mission is what for drones and adjusting accordingly ( I do love that idea ). Still Changes should be made.
Shiva Bryne
Takahashi Syndicate
#34 - 2013-01-25 00:05:51 UTC
Drone are attack without mercy in lvl4 missions. I fly a Navy Domi. And since the new expansion have
Lost a rediculous amount of drones. Light through heavy. Even battle ship npc will start targetting my light drones.
Lvl4 missions have been my main source of isk. Now i barely make any head way cause im buying replacement
Heavies every mission. That starts to add up. Lvl4 missions are not a viable way of making isk anymore due to drone aggro.
Not to mention when you are perma scrambled damped and webbed. As soon as you field your drones they are doomed.
Some missions i have found that a target painter iliviates the aggro but there is still some management needed. But on
Others it is simply ********. Drones are a Primary Weapon for a Drone Boat. And why did they add all of these drone modules
When you cannot even have your drones out long enoigh for them to be useful. NPCs cannot fire on gun boats guns and destroy
Them nor can the destroy a missle lancher. So why drones? Thats my 2 cents.
Helena Khan
Ministry Of Reverse Engineering
#35 - 2013-01-25 01:25:43 UTC
EWAR. It has its uses as far as aggro management goes....
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