These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

High-sec ganking profitability
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#21 - 2011-10-09 16:10:43 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Cloaky blockade runner. Highsec is the new lowsec.Cool


This is what people should be using for high value cargoes in any case, whatever the sec of the space they're in.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Lutz Major
Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo
#22 - 2011-10-09 18:56:07 UTC
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
Honestly (Not saying you are) but most people who move expensive stuff are complete idiots. I mean I can't even being to tell you how many KM's I see where Badger's and Iterions are hauling millions or billions worth of stuff. I mean you basicly hauling them in a moving target, I mean EVERY Industrial WILL get scanned at one point in their journey, why make it so easy for gankers.

If your gonna move like lets say a Core X-type LAR, it takes up what 20m3. MOVE IT IN A FIRETAIL OR A ZEALOT OR A ABADDON! How many times have you seen them scanned? None probably, because nobody suspects them to haul anything but people are complete idiots when they haul stuff, they think they can only haul stuff in Indy's.

So the matter is not on how much cargo you can carry before your ganked, it's if your an idiot enough to use a Indy to haul your stuff (Sometimes I've seen T1 Frigates scanned though)

Honestly, I think you have no clue about transporting goods!


Don't use autopilot. Never! Plot your own course and avoid choke points of highway routes between hubs.
Check the map for ship jumps, kills and pod-kills, when you plot the course. Fly the course empty and make lots and lots of bookmarks. Put the goods into a container and contract it to yourself by an alt. Nobody can scan the contents now - and when you get ganked - chances are fifty/fifty that a single container will not survive.

Try cloaked ships - if possible (my Prowler has never let me down). If that is not possible find the ship, that has the highest align time and a good EHP that you still can transport your stuff - no need to waste empty cargo. Fit it accordingly!

You can also go for a diversion: take your parcel and fill up the rest of your cargo hold with minerals - look like a carebear ('fail fit' your badger, but never fit guns - when you are captured a gun - or many - won't make a difference).


Find a time/time zone when the least gate campers are online.

Most importantly - use an alt as scout.


THE most important part: NEVER TRUST ANYBODY! Don't tell anyone what you plan, where you want to go and which ship you will take.




Oh, and by the way, Mushroom: change your sig. There are seven days in a week not five ...
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#23 - 2011-10-09 19:42:43 UTC
The only thing more amusing than naive and overly-trusting pubbies are the paranoid ones.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2011-10-10 07:01:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Mfume Apocal
Cpt Fina wrote:

I also congratulate you that you've grasped the concept of exemplification when I said " a corp/alliance like goonswarm".

You, sir, strike me as a very insightful individual. Keep it up.


look you use a bunch of big-ass words to basically try to weasel out of goons being incredibly rich, powerful, organized and (this is the part that blows our pubbie minds) competent at sov/fleet warfare. but go on thinking you can terrorize their **** in retaliation, i'd recommend you start on the torrinos gate in EC-.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#25 - 2011-10-10 07:27:03 UTC
Well, let's see…

It costs, what? 20M net to deliver 10k alpha.
The common wisdom is to calculate drop value from half the cargo.

So for every 40M cargo, you need 10k EHP to be less than worth-while to gank for cash or on a gamble.

Adjust numbers to match reality (because I haven't look at the market for gank ships in a long while).
Cpt Fina
Perkone
Caldari State
#26 - 2011-10-10 08:37:37 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Cpt Fina wrote:

I also congratulate you that you've grasped the concept of exemplification when I said " a corp/alliance like goonswarm".

You, sir, strike me as a very insightful individual. Keep it up.


look you use a bunch of big-ass words to basically try to weasel out of goons being incredibly rich, powerful, organized and (this is the part that blows our pubbie minds) competent at sov/fleet warfare. but go on thinking you can terrorize their **** in retaliation, i'd recommend you start on the torrinos gate in EC-.



Exemplification.... big ass word?...ummm ok..... or was it congratulate?

Still, what was wrong with my statement? Would it be impossible to hire a mercenary group to take out one or several POSes of a large alliance when they are stretched out during wartime? Would it be impossible to hire a merc group to terrorize logistic lines / alt corps of a large alliance?

You seem unable to grasp the use of examples. Are you not familiar with abstract thinking? It's possible that you're not because it requires intermediate school education.

But if you are familiar with the usage of exemplification and can engage in an adult discussion then I suggest you point out the flaws in my post and not try to pinpoint the technical aspects of my example.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2011-10-10 08:44:46 UTC
Cpt Fina wrote:
Still, what was wrong with my statement? Would it be impossible to hire a mercenary group to take out one or several POSes of a large alliance when they are stretched out during wartime? Would it be impossible to hire a merc group to terrorize logistic lines / alt corps of a large alliance?

From what I've seen of "merc groups" in Eve yes what you are describing is impossible. A few of the ice miners we killed have tried this tactic and it usually ends with the "mercs" ruining their precious kb stats while doing nothing to us.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Cpt Fina
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2011-10-10 09:02:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Cpt Fina
Ladie Harlot wrote:
From what I've seen of "merc groups" in Eve yes what you are describing is impossible. A few of the ice miners we killed have tried this tactic and it usually ends with the "mercs" ruining their precious kb stats while doing nothing to us.


You think the iceminers gave a rats ass about the mercs k/d ratio aslong as they brought you enough hurt?
It also depends on how much money you throw at a problem and consequently which mercs you hire. People with enough money and a basic understanding of 0,0 can get their revenge by using financial leverage, simple as that.

Groups roam established 0,0 areas all the time looking for easy kills... even though your anecdote proves, beyond any doubt, that its impossible to kill goons in 0,0 Roll.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2011-10-10 09:05:52 UTC
I use an Iteron V at times - it can haul up to 30k m3 of cargo. NOT "maxed all cargo capable".

I have enough tank on it to survive over 15k damage to its weakest resist.

To gank it takes a lot more than your usuall lulz ganker crowd will try and field - those types rarely work in packs with big ships. It's the professional gankers for profit you have to watch out for and yes, they do exist and can/will nail you if you pack overly expensive stuff around.

I'd never pack that thing with expensive stuff.

If I need bulky high value stuff moved around, I hire a professional hauler to do it. If I need high value smaller loads, I use a blockade runner and use instant-undocks and safe points to move between systems.

Play cautious and smart. Avoid packing large amounts of value yourself. A few million to a professional mover to have stuff hauled a few systems over beats the hell out of "awe crap... lost a fortune!".

Seriously, it can be very cheap to hire a freighter to move stuff a few jumps from a trade-hub for you to then pick it up and haul it the rest of the way yourself.

Just think a bit and don't try and be overly greedy/lazy.
Liev Dleg
Deutsche Recycling GmbH
#30 - 2011-10-10 11:43:21 UTC
I agree with Mocam!
The easiest way to fly safe is to use more accounts. My Jita Price Checker ist flying all the stuff away from jita 4/4, by smallest Industrial.
It takes houres, but savest way.
And at the known ganker Systems i'm parking freighters to make one jump. It wasting 900km³ Cargo, but it's save!
Very Important: Place Shuttles at these Points, because some gankers killing POD, not important what Sec status.

Until Concord only attacks the agressor and not all the fleet he is inside, giving shield boosts and repair, we can only minimize our losts.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2011-10-10 15:56:40 UTC
Cpt Fina wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
From what I've seen of "merc groups" in Eve yes what you are describing is impossible. A few of the ice miners we killed have tried this tactic and it usually ends with the "mercs" ruining their precious kb stats while doing nothing to us.


You think the iceminers gave a rats ass about the mercs k/d ratio aslong as they brought you enough hurt?
It also depends on how much money you throw at a problem and consequently which mercs you hire. People with enough money and a basic understanding of 0,0 can get their revenge by using financial leverage, simple as that.

Groups roam established 0,0 areas all the time looking for easy kills... even though your anecdote proves, beyond any doubt, that its impossible to kill goons in 0,0 Roll.

While the ice miners who hire them may not care about killboard stats, most mercenary groups tend to draw from the "Elite PVP" crowd and those guys invariably care about their killboard stats.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#32 - 2011-10-10 16:30:31 UTC
Erm..... Badger MKII Triple Stab xD Works for me In Null.... But I am Crazy.

I love being chased :P

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.
Cpt Fina
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2011-10-10 20:21:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Cpt Fina
Lyris Nairn wrote:

While the ice miners who hire them may not care about killboard stats, most mercenary groups tend to draw from the "Elite PVP" crowd and those guys invariably care about their killboard stats.



But that's separate from the issue at hand. My post was about the ability to get even by hurting on the agressors.
Is it hard for goons in general to follow a train of thought or is it restricted to the ones that post o the forums?
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#34 - 2011-10-10 20:32:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Tippia wrote:
Well, let's see…

It costs, what? 20M net to deliver 10k alpha.
The common wisdom is to calculate drop value from half the cargo.

So for every 40M cargo, you need 10k EHP to be less than worth-while to gank for cash or on a gamble.

Adjust numbers to match reality (because I haven't look at the market for gank ships in a long while).


Depends on the target, les take the orca has example:
An orca is more about 200K EHP (decent fit) and this means a lot of T2 fitted/faction ammo ubber skilled pilots with 10/12K alpha (abby/mael/pest) per ship.
Full fit +ship I'd say about 150/200M piece)
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#35 - 2011-10-10 20:36:20 UTC
Cpt Fina wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:

While the ice miners who hire them may not care about killboard stats, most mercenary groups tend to draw from the "Elite PVP" crowd and those guys invariably care about their killboard stats.



But that's separate from the issue at hand. My post was about the ability to get even by hurting on the agressors.
Is it hard for goons in general to follow a train of thought or is it restricted to the ones that post o the forums?

Amazingly when one adopts a contrary tone one tends to receive contrary replies.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2011-10-10 21:23:46 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Well, let's see…

It costs, what? 20M net to deliver 10k alpha.
The common wisdom is to calculate drop value from half the cargo.

So for every 40M cargo, you need 10k EHP to be less than worth-while to gank for cash or on a gamble.

Adjust numbers to match reality (because I haven't look at the market for gank ships in a long while).


Over 20 posts and finally a straight answer. I assume this is based on some sort of minmatar BS + 8x artis - insurance value?
9th candle
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2011-10-10 21:53:00 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
There is no amount of EHP which will make it unprofitable to gank you right now; first, because profitability is not a concern for the people who are doing most of the ganking; second, because Goonswarm Federation presently has open bounties on all mining and hauling ships within certain areas of space. You may be safe carrying 5 billion in a Badger; you may be ganked carrying 100 million in a Charon. It is literally a roll of the dice right now as to whether or not you get ganked, not a measure of perceived profitability: you are betting, at every stargate, that there are not enough goons whom have noticed your freighter, industrial, orca, mining barge, or exhumer, and whom have sufficient firepower to destroy it. Presently the payouts provided by the alliance bounties are sufficient as to incur no net cost to the pilot(s) involved in ganking any industry-related ship you might be piloting, anywhere. So if a single thing drops, it's profit.


Maybe you guys don't care about security status or setup time, but the general public won't start ganking orcas for tritanium. There is still a cost / benefit equation, you have shifted the break even point that's all.

1-Up Mushroom wrote:
Honestly (Not saying you are) but most people who move expensive stuff are complete idiots. I mean I can't even being to tell you how many KM's I see where Badger's and Iterions are hauling millions or billions worth of stuff. I mean you basicly hauling them in a moving target, I mean EVERY Industrial WILL get scanned at one point in their journey, why make it so easy for gankers.

If your gonna move like lets say a Core X-type LAR, it takes up what 20m3. MOVE IT IN A FIRETAIL OR A ZEALOT OR A ABADDON! How many times have you seen them scanned? None probably, because nobody suspects them to haul anything but people are complete idiots when they haul stuff, they think they can only haul stuff in Indy's.

So the matter is not on how much cargo you can carry before your ganked, it's if your an idiot enough to use a Indy to haul your stuff (Sometimes I've seen T1 Frigates scanned though)


Well done, that's a genuinely stupid post.
loser mclame fatty
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2011-10-10 21:59:10 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:


These are, OC, exceptional conditions where your alliance sat bonus/bounty's for ships in that particular space/belts (by the way I'm on the verge of getting billionaire with my oxytops stockpile thanks to you guys).


lol he thinks that 1b isk is a lot of money
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2011-10-10 22:38:57 UTC
Cpt Fina wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:

While the ice miners who hire them may not care about killboard stats, most mercenary groups tend to draw from the "Elite PVP" crowd and those guys invariably care about their killboard stats.



But that's separate from the issue at hand. My post was about the ability to get even by hurting on the agressors.
Is it hard for goons in general to follow a train of thought or is it restricted to the ones that post o the forums?

What's the use of following a train of thought that is so obviously wrong?

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#40 - 2011-10-10 22:45:09 UTC
loser mclame fatty wrote:
Tanya Powers wrote:


These are, OC, exceptional conditions where your alliance sat bonus/bounty's for ships in that particular space/belts (by the way I'm on the verge of getting billionaire with my oxytops stockpile thanks to you guys).


lol he thinks that 1b isk is a lot of money



Nice [stuff]. Keep posting Lol