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How EVE Became Obsolete (And why CCP hasn’t noticed)

First post
Author
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#81 - 2013-01-06 08:07:02 UTC
When time come for eve to migrate to cheap oversize book reader it will,somehow i don't think time for that is around corner.

More so i rly don't care is it PC,phone,tablet or robot monkey as long as it can deliver wireless keyboard/mouse connectivity and performance il use it.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Cheekybiatch
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2013-01-06 08:11:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Cheekybiatch
OP is stupid and doesn't know what a Gimmick is.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#83 - 2013-01-06 08:14:12 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
a simultaneous login tablet companion, that would be... amazing. maps, skill queue, trading, everything. like a kneeboard for irl pilots. ok, now i'm just dreaming


that is the easy stuff to see that people have been asking for (and isn't most of that stuff what the crest api is for?)! being able to do some trading, or change a skill, on the ride home or when eating lunch on your phone would be pretty useful.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2013-01-06 08:31:42 UTC
Just because another electronic is selling more than the PC doesn't mean its going obsolete. The PC is still by far and will remain far more powerful than tablets and the like for a long time. Now there's potential in making EVE tablet compatible and it'd open a whole new market, but you're very much... VERY much jumping the gun on it going obsolete. Hell, platforms like Ubuntu at the moment are primarily used for running servers and not much else. They can DO more, but having tried it myself, really wouldn't recommend it for much else.
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#85 - 2013-01-06 08:31:50 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
Stuff


As someone who uses a tablet regularly, I can say that at the moment gaming on a tablet is no substitute for gaming on a PC, although that might change in the future. A touch interface is fine for most day to day use but for gaming, IMHO, it sucks.

Eve runs fine in most OS's & on most modern PC platforms, OS X is still supported, Wine allows you to play it on Linux with minimal setup.

Personally I'd say CCP is ahead of the curve when it comes to multiple OS support, most major developers treat OS X and Linux as the antichrist and only support Windows (8 is foul until you lose that godawful interface). It would be nice to see a native Linux client again though.


This.
Everyone and their dog owns a cell phone too but they also own a land line.

The PC is still the most powerful platform out there and just because I own a laptop or a tablet, I still turn the PC on to download and manage everything. You can run EVE off a USB pen drive. Other MMO's got away from themselves, not EVE. Subscriptions allow me to control my spending. That's how most see it. We all know free is a total scam.

R.I.P. Vile Rat

Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#86 - 2013-01-06 08:35:13 UTC
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
What exactly is it that you are on?

How is CCP even remotely responsible for technological advances in the industry? How is it that you consider that they should be concerned that they won't be able to support EVE on those devices should the time come? Why is it that you think these devices will outperform PCs?

So many questions; so little time.

Do you think that PC is suddenly going to be obsolete? That Windows operating systems which function only on X86-64 Architecture normally, will suddenly become obsolete despite being one of the most common OS in the world?

Do you think Intel will suddenly go under? Nvidia will stop making GPUs for high end PCs? That none of that stuff will be necessary in years to come?

ShockedWhat?


So many questions indeed :-) I admire your inquisitive mind.

CCP is responsible for keeping up with the technology their subscribers are using. Otherwise there won't be subscribers. Do I need to clarify something so obvious?

The PC is BECOMING obsolete. No, it will never go away, same as VCRs will never go away. But most of us will stop using them in favour of devices that better compliment our lifestyle. Windows will not go away. I use Windows 8, but I fully expect it will be the last OS I ever need to pay money for. Ubuntu is maturing rapidly, and Valve's shift toward Linux will seal the deal for most PC gamers.

Intel will not suddenly go under. But they will slowly go under. Search Google News for "Intel" and see if I'm wrong.

Their subsidiary nVidia will fare much better because they've already embraced ARM with open arms. Their Tegra chips are in many Android devices today. I think with time we will see them investing less R&D in blistering desktop GPUs and more in power-sipping multi-core mobile chipsets.

How'd I do? :-)


I think you're over-estimating the potential for tablet PCs
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#87 - 2013-01-06 09:03:29 UTC
I don't expect a complet disapear of x86 Platforms for the next 10 to 20 years.

Sure, the classic desctop PC might disapear earlier but only to be replaced by very powerfull laptop PCs. Even my personal laptop which isn't that powerfull has no problems with EvE at maximum settings and big fleets. And as Linux (and some other) platforms have no problem with EvE too .... it is pritty sure, that EvE has a good changs to survive the next 10 years ;).

All this touch-gimigs are .... gimigs. They are nice for some privet stuff but junk for real work. Just try to write a simple letter with more then 100 letters. It's a pur PAIN to do it without a keyboard! Or filling any table with content. After the second line of data you just curse this touch-**** :).

Sure, the industry try hard to tell us "you NEED this new stuff". But hey, they want to sell their gimigs ... and get your money *g*.
But nobody tells you, you MUST buy any new gudy (my desctop PC for example is several years old and I can still play most games without problem (core2duo + 460 GTX + 8gb ram).

TLTR: EvE will be fine at last another 10 years.

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#88 - 2013-01-06 09:09:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
The core flaw in the premise for this entire thread is that the OP confuses “complement” with “replace”.

Come back when we're starting to see commercial direct neural input. It'll be about then that the PC will stand a chance of being actually replaced.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#89 - 2013-01-06 09:13:47 UTC
I was promised an explanation as to why EVE is now obsolete, but was fed a bunch of crap about tablets.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#90 - 2013-01-06 09:17:17 UTC
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
Well reasoned sir. I admire your optimism.

We are headed for a more fragmented marketplace where consumers will buy the device that matches their lifestyle. The lines are becoming blurred between smartphone, tablet, console, laptop, and desktop. Traditional desktop PCs (and laptops increasingly) are compatible with fewer and fewer lifestyles. If I wasn't a gamer, a $400 Android tablet would easily meet all my needs, and I would very likely own exactly that.

But if you tell me my $400 Android tablet can play an awesome sci-fi MMO for a low monthly fee, then you've made my day.

Users who cannot justify spending an extra $600 to $3600 on a clunky PC just so they can play games are the ones who will be shut out. And CCP will be the ultimate losers.

You're sayin it yourself: If I wasn't a gamer...


I'm not going to even touch Android tablets at the moment.

Instead I'm still waiting for decent Windows tablets. Android as it comes to day is simply a nuisance. I'm expecting the same comfort a Windows based platform offers me today when I spend $500 or more on a new solution.

Touch screens are absolutely terrible anyway.

They may become viable as keyboard and mouse replacements in some ten years or more from now. Until then I'm not going to write or do anything more demanding with them, than reading news on tablets. And until Android stops sucking even at reading e-papers, I won't consider it as a viable platform.

And touch screens desperately need to be self cleaning. That's something they should have solved a long time ago to make them useful.

Remove standings and insurance.

Ai Shun
#91 - 2013-01-06 09:21:35 UTC
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
If I wasn't a gamer, a $400 Android tablet would easily meet all my needs, and I would very likely own exactly that.


But you are a gamer. Hence ... well.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#92 - 2013-01-06 09:24:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
Tippia wrote:
Come back when we're starting to see commercial direct neural input. It'll be about then that the PC will stand a chance of being actually replaced.

Well, I'm not going to see that anymore Blink.

Remove standings and insurance.

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2013-01-06 09:36:44 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
All of that motion and touch screen and stuff like that - it's a gimmick. I won't be using it.


Now why does that sound familiar.

Oh. I remember, now.

It's the same mantra recited by the Luddites when video cards were introduced. And LCD screens were just coming on the market. 1Ghz processors. RAM over 8 MB. Etc, etc, etc.

We wouldn't have the friggin' telephone, for that matter, if it was up to people like you with their closed minds and fear of change.

Mr Epeen Cool


It's not about fear of change, it's about functionality. What is it about touch screen or motion detection that does what existing technology doesn't? I'm sure it has it's fans, but it's still just a gimmick. What you're talking about are technologies that revolutionised communications and computing technology - LCD is useful not just because it's prettier, but it's lighter, more practical in portable devices like laptops, and the contribution of telephones to communications is obvious. But did you know that there have been plenty of gimmicks throughout history that were cool, but just didn't work out? Did you know that the film industry made four movies in the 1950s that were in 3D? I'll bet you didn't - and even today, 3D stuff is more or less trying to be pushed as something cool and new, but it's still just a gimmick, and it hasn't been around as long yet as it was in the 50s before people lost interest in it.

I'm not afraid of technology or change, I just don't see the wisdom in attempting to fix or destroy technology that still works and performs its function admirably. I don't own a tablet because I don't need one. I have a laptop because I need to be able to store lots of dataand run high-end software, more than a tablet can handle, and I need to be able to take it to campus and work with me. Since it performs everything I need and want without having a desktop PC, I don't have one, just the laptop. However, the desktop will always be more popular with gamers than anything that fits into the palm of your hand. Otherwise, they all would have switched to consoles decades ago.

I'm not saying that new technology is useless, but it won't make desktop or laptop PC's any more redundant than, say, CD music - did you know CD sales still outsale digital ones? Digital music didn't kill CDs, the "next generation" of computer tech won't kill the PC. Not even a small chance of that happening.

Nice work jumping to conclusions about me being "closed minded" though without knowing a damn thing about me other than what you decided to cherry pick out of my arguments. Congratulations, you win pseudoacademic of the year award, and it's not even February yet.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Lexmana
#94 - 2013-01-06 09:45:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Traditional desktop PCs are being replaced by laptops. And that trend will continue also in gaming. This probably means that more and more people will play on smaller (≈15") screens but apart from that I don't think we will see much difference in gaming on the PC in the foreseeable future. Laptops are already quite capable gaming platforms (if you don't buy the cheapest ones) and I am very happy with my rMBP.

The laptop is not going anywhere soon. It is too flexible and too good at what it does for that to happen. And the need for a proper computer in our homes will not decrease when more people work more time from their homes over the internet. In addition, the laptop will most likely adapt and transform into a hybrid device with keyboard, touchpad, mouse AND touchscreen input. Pure touch screen tablets will dominate mobility but laptops will continue to be the main personal computer in most peoples homes - in particular people that work with computers and/or like to play games.

The classical gaming rig will also still be there of course, but less people will find the need to have one as laptops becomes more and more powerful.

PS. I have an ipad and I hardly use it though I find it very convenient for looking up recipes when cooking in the kitchen. Just about everything else I do on my laptop unless I am on the road and then ofc I use my phone. I don't think I am that unique.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#95 - 2013-01-06 09:49:15 UTC
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
CCP recently indulged in a bit of self-congratulation following widespread media coverage of their 450,000th paid EVE subscription. Mainstream news outlets, including Forbes, actually remarked on the game’s success despite its venerability and outdated subscription model. EVE is proving unexpected staying power, growing steadily while other MMOs such as WoW have struggled to retain monthly customers.

All this attention might suggest the future of EVE is rosy and bright, but consider:

- The future of traditional x86 and x64 PC architecture is increasingly vague. Laptops have been outselling desktop systems for years, but tablet sales are gaining exponentially. A whopping 122 million ARM-based tablets and smartphones sold in 2012.

- Within two years, ARM devices will account for more than half of all personal computer sales.

- 97% of those devices will employ touch as their primary input. A full 50% will support gesture input and 10% will natively display stereoscopic 3D.

- The PC gaming industry has little appetite for Windows 8, as evidenced by leaders such as Valve Software. Valve is currently backing an aggressive transition to Steam for Linux, with a repository of 40 games and counting already available to open-source users. Valve is also throwing support behind Oculus Rift, a revolutionary developing virtual reality system.

All this points to something CCP isn't admitting: their flagship game title could soon become too damn inconvenient to play if it remains bound for all time to traditional PCs.

For the moment, EVE’s subscribers are loyal and (on the whole) pleased with the status quo. CCP just completed their 18th successful expansion, filling EVE with upgrades and goodies ranging from simplified combat functions to baffling trading cards. Players are heavily invested in EVE, emotionally, financially, and otherwise.

But ARM and other mobile technologies are maturing fast, with multi-core processors, dedicated GPUs, and beautiful multi-touch displays claiming long-established PC territory, both in performance and sales. As our PCs age, we will replace them with touch-based multipurpose tablets, hybrid smartphones, and lord-knows-what other concoctions of techno-wizardry. Those who do choose a traditional PC may find Windows taking a backseat to Ubuntu and other platforms. The fact that these devices refuse to run EVE-Online will not deter us from choosing the device suited to our increasingly busy and mobile lives.

What’s troubling is that, to date, CCP has offered almost no interest beyond traditional PCs. They pulled official support for Linux in 2009, citing low usage. Fanfest attendees went wild last spring when CCP purportedly demonstrated EVE being tested on Android. But nearly a full year later, with no updates, no announcements, and no beta, we’re no longer convinced. It’s become clear CCP will never support many of the bleeding-edge technologies we most covet – mobile computing, open source operating systems, stereoscopic 3D, touch and gesture input, and virtual reality.

I predict a tipping point, perhaps one to two years in the future, where EVE fans, torn between a device that suits their needs and a device that runs EVE, will inevitably cancel their subscriptions and embrace a new era of personal computing. CCP will trumpet new expansions, drop all the tweaks and player content their little hearts desire, and even lower subscription prices, but the damage will be done.

CCP has time to pull it together, but it’s understandably harder and less interesting than designing new battlecruisers or tweaking mining yields. Bringing internet spaceships to a new generation of devices demands a complete interface overhaul, perhaps even a full-scale client rewrite. But in EVE’s greatest challenge lies also its greatest opportunity. Mobile and open-source gaming platforms are bringing accessibility and exposure to untouched masses. If CCP can’t get excited about retaining existing gamers, maybe the prospect of millions of potential new subscribers will whet their appetite for the job at hand.


Yeah I remember the death of the PC being acclaimed approximately every two years since about 1995.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

killorbekilled TBE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2013-01-06 09:58:24 UTC
Look what happened when the mario bros wrist watch came out, 'everyone' thought that was the end of mario gaming on the console but hes still going strong

:)

Ittos
Beards Confirmed
#97 - 2013-01-06 10:01:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ittos
Lexmana wrote:
Traditional desktop PCs are being replaced by laptops. And that trend will continue also in gaming. This probably means that more and more people will play on smaller (≈15") screens but apart from that I don't think we will see much difference in gaming on the PC in the foreseeable future. Laptops are already quite capable gaming platforms (if you don't buy the cheapest ones) and I am very happy with my MBP.

The laptop is not going anywhere soon. It is too flexible and too good at what it does for that to happen. And the need for a proper computer in our homes will not decrease when more people work more time from their homes over the internet. In addition, the laptop will most likely adapt and transform into a hybrid device with keyboard, touchpad, mouse AND touchscreen input. Pure touch screen tablets will dominate mobility but laptops will continue to be the main personal computer in most peoples homes - in particular people that work with computer and/or like to play games.

The classical gaming rig will also still be there of course, but less people will find the need to have one as laptops becomes more and more powerful.


They might get more powerful but the software will also get more demanding

I'll never use a laptop for gaming. The touchpad mouse is horrible for it plus I don't like being concerned about battery life. The easy solutions for that are to plug it in and attatch a mouse but how is that better than a desktop? The fact is that as tech advances and you can do more with smaller, you can still do more with larger.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#98 - 2013-01-06 10:05:38 UTC
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
CCP recently indulged in a bit of self-congratulation following widespread media coverage of their 450,000th paid EVE subscription. Mainstream news outlets, including Forbes, actually remarked on the game’s success despite its venerability and outdated subscription model. EVE is proving unexpected staying power, growing steadily while other MMOs such as WoW have struggled to retain monthly customers.

All this attention might suggest the future of EVE is rosy and bright, but consider:

- The future of traditional x86 and x64 PC architecture is increasingly vague. Laptops have been outselling desktop systems for years, but tablet sales are gaining exponentially. A whopping 122 million ARM-based tablets and smartphones sold in 2012.

- Within two years, ARM devices will account for more than half of all personal computer sales.

- 97% of those devices will employ touch as their primary input. A full 50% will support gesture input and 10% will natively display stereoscopic 3D.

- The PC gaming industry has little appetite for Windows 8, as evidenced by leaders such as Valve Software. Valve is currently backing an aggressive transition to Steam for Linux, with a repository of 40 games and counting already available to open-source users. Valve is also throwing support behind Oculus Rift, a revolutionary developing virtual reality system.

All this points to something CCP isn't admitting: their flagship game title could soon become too damn inconvenient to play if it remains bound for all time to traditional PCs.

For the moment, EVE’s subscribers are loyal and (on the whole) pleased with the status quo. CCP just completed their 18th successful expansion, filling EVE with upgrades and goodies ranging from simplified combat functions to baffling trading cards. Players are heavily invested in EVE, emotionally, financially, and otherwise.

But ARM and other mobile technologies are maturing fast, with multi-core processors, dedicated GPUs, and beautiful multi-touch displays claiming long-established PC territory, both in performance and sales. As our PCs age, we will replace them with touch-based multipurpose tablets, hybrid smartphones, and lord-knows-what other concoctions of techno-wizardry. Those who do choose a traditional PC may find Windows taking a backseat to Ubuntu and other platforms. The fact that these devices refuse to run EVE-Online will not deter us from choosing the device suited to our increasingly busy and mobile lives.

What’s troubling is that, to date, CCP has offered almost no interest beyond traditional PCs. They pulled official support for Linux in 2009, citing low usage. Fanfest attendees went wild last spring when CCP purportedly demonstrated EVE being tested on Android. But nearly a full year later, with no updates, no announcements, and no beta, we’re no longer convinced. It’s become clear CCP will never support many of the bleeding-edge technologies we most covet – mobile computing, open source operating systems, stereoscopic 3D, touch and gesture input, and virtual reality.

I predict a tipping point, perhaps one to two years in the future, where EVE fans, torn between a device that suits their needs and a device that runs EVE, will inevitably cancel their subscriptions and embrace a new era of personal computing. CCP will trumpet new expansions, drop all the tweaks and player content their little hearts desire, and even lower subscription prices, but the damage will be done.

CCP has time to pull it together, but it’s understandably harder and less interesting than designing new battlecruisers or tweaking mining yields. Bringing internet spaceships to a new generation of devices demands a complete interface overhaul, perhaps even a full-scale client rewrite. But in EVE’s greatest challenge lies also its greatest opportunity. Mobile and open-source gaming platforms are bringing accessibility and exposure to untouched masses. If CCP can’t get excited about retaining existing gamers, maybe the prospect of millions of potential new subscribers will whet their appetite for the job at hand.

Were way more than 2 or 3 years, hell were closer to another 10 years, before anything touch-based is convenient enough i would even want eve coming CLOSE to it.

fact is, convenience electronics may be a neat gimmick and "popular" among the normal crowd and extreme technophiles, but standard home PC's are and for the foreseeable future will remain the top in raw power, as well as convenience of input. because im sorry, but running eve on touch and Gestures would **** off any FC, market-trader, or industrialist, simply because the way to enter numbers through those mediums is tedious, time consuming and MOST IMPORTANTLY damaging to the device.

in fact the short-term lifespan of most touch-based instruments, and the fragility of most gesture-based, is a major turn off when it comes to gaming, especially a frustrating one such as EvE (where i know many of you can ADMIT to wanting to, if not actually, punching/throwing something at your computer).


CCP has nothing to worry about, its long down the road, and even for YEARS after this "tipping point" PC's will still support a dedicated userbase of pretty much anyone who uses technology for anything besides "O M G at the mall with my BFF's forevs" and etc etc etc annoying people.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#99 - 2013-01-06 10:07:24 UTC
EVE seems very fresh to me. This game will still be around 30 years from now.

The Tears Must Flow

mama guru
Yazatas.
#100 - 2013-01-06 10:08:58 UTC
Ittos wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Traditional desktop PCs are being replaced by laptops. And that trend will continue also in gaming. This probably means that more and more people will play on smaller (≈15") screens but apart from that I don't think we will see much difference in gaming on the PC in the foreseeable future. Laptops are already quite capable gaming platforms (if you don't buy the cheapest ones) and I am very happy with my MBP.

The laptop is not going anywhere soon. It is too flexible and too good at what it does for that to happen. And the need for a proper computer in our homes will not decrease when more people work more time from their homes over the internet. In addition, the laptop will most likely adapt and transform into a hybrid device with keyboard, touchpad, mouse AND touchscreen input. Pure touch screen tablets will dominate mobility but laptops will continue to be the main personal computer in most peoples homes - in particular people that work with computer and/or like to play games.

The classical gaming rig will also still be there of course, but less people will find the need to have one as laptops becomes more and more powerful.


They might get more powerful but the software will also get more demanding

I'll never use a laptop for gaming. The touchpad mouse is horrible for it plus I don't like being concerned about battery life. The easy solutions for that are to plug it in and attatch a mouse but how is that better than a desktop? The fact is that as tech advances and you can do more with smaller, you can still do more with larger.


I agree. People who predict PC doom and gloom based on nothing more than sales figures probably don't work as analysts. The real secret behind the PC's long lifespan and continued prosperity as a gaming platform lies in the ease of updating and replacing hardware along with the interface.

Keyboard plus mouse wont ever be eclipsed by toutchscreen interfaces for gaming, simply because it is so ineffective at handling multiple simultaneous input. Controllers are easy and allow for some depth at some types of games, but less so for games like RTS and FPS.


The only game i can see working for a toutch screen really well would be a traditional RTS or grand strategy game.

EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's too hard you are too weak.