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How EVE Became Obsolete (And why CCP hasn’t noticed)

First post
Author
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#321 - 2013-01-11 22:13:45 UTC
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
All this attention might suggest the future of EVE is rosy and bright, but consider:

- The future of traditional x86 and x64 PC architecture is increasingly vague. Laptops have been outselling desktop systems for years, but tablet sales are gaining exponentially. A whopping 122 million ARM-based tablets and smartphones sold in 2012.

I really think all of this talk about tablets/touchscreens replacing the PC/laptop is a bunch of hype. I believe the reality is is that desktops and laptops have reached the point of market saturation, and as the market has become saturated, existing PC/laptop has slowed.

There hasn't really been that much of a technological change in software that necessarily requires the replacement of a 2008 computer in 2013. Yet, on the other hand, there is extremely rapid turnover in ownership of smartphones - the typical person goes through several in the time a typical PC/laptop owner replaces their computer.

The entire cell phone industry heavily incentivizes the rapid, serial discardment of old phones and replacement with new ones.

So, in that regard, comparing smartphone to PC/laptop sales is a false comparison. It is really apples and oranges. On the spectrum between disposable and durable goods, smartphones tend toward the disposable end, while PCs/laptops tend toward the durable end. Something like 130 million cell phones are discarded each year in the US, whereas computers are discarded at about 10-15% that rate.

With tablets, they may be replacing the laptop for consumers with relatively minimal needs, but I'd say this segment of the consumer place are mostly not the type of people who were intensive gamers to begin with.

Pretty much this. More and more people are satisfied with the performace of their PCs for longer periods of time. There hasn't been a compelling reason to upgrade in years, unless there's a particular new game that won't run on your existing hardware.

I have an Asus Transformer and I love the thing. I'm using it right now. The touch interface is great for casual stuff...but how well suited is it for my dual 24" monitors at home? That seems horribly less productive than using a mouse where I can move between screens with a flick of the wrist, all while sitting far enough back that I can see all the information on my screen.

These doomsayers are almost always idiots who can't imagine computers being used beyond the simple single-screen browser and word processor they see them as. They don't understand just how much versatility you give up to adopt a tablet as your primary computing device.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#322 - 2013-01-11 22:14:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Oh look, a stealth "PC gaming is dead" thread.
Really?
It's about as stealth as an army of panicked elephants with Big Berthas on their backs.
Amitious Turkey
10kSubnautic
Warriors of the Blood God
#323 - 2013-01-11 22:44:29 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
They don't understand just how much versatility you give up to adopt a tablet as your primary computing device.


This. I have no reason to buy a tablet. My laptop does everything I want in a single platform.

I can see devices eventually consolidating into a single platform that services all of your needs, but not the laptop going the way of the dinosaur. If anything it's more likely we'll end up with a standard product that's much more like a laptop than a tablet or smartphone.

Also, I would hate to play any game on a smaller screen, especially Eve.

I like to lick things.

Haunting the forums since 03.

Marrnius DeLeon
Malevelon Roe Industries
Convocation of Empyreans
#324 - 2013-01-11 22:48:32 UTC
EVE with a touch screen would be so freaking amazing. Imagine if you could use your tablet or another monitor as the "dashboard" of your ship and have the screen clear of UI. SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!
Jessica Lorelei
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#325 - 2013-01-11 23:44:48 UTC
OP...Did you perchance beleive the world was going to end in December 2012?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#326 - 2013-01-12 00:59:15 UTC
Marrnius DeLeon wrote:
EVE with a touch screen would be so freaking amazing. Imagine if you could use your tablet or another monitor as the "dashboard" of your ship and have the screen clear of UI. SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!


You only say this because you haven't tried to adapt a control structure as complicated as Eve's onto a touch screen. Complicated systems like Eve do not translate well to iPads and similar devices.

-A Game Developer

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#327 - 2013-01-12 01:00:41 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Marrnius DeLeon wrote:
EVE with a touch screen would be so freaking amazing. Imagine if you could use your tablet or another monitor as the "dashboard" of your ship and have the screen clear of UI. SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!


You only say this because you haven't tried to adapt a control structure as complicated as Eve's onto a touch screen. Complicated systems like Eve do not translate well to iPads and similar devices.

-A Game Developer


Eve for Wii U Big smile

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#328 - 2013-01-12 01:03:32 UTC
Hijacking thread for a second because I don't create a new thread unless I really really need to. 1 day to my eve break due to going in a wee bit over my head with university but I promise I'll be back so try to not screw up my forums or I'll find you (in-game) and I will cut you....

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#329 - 2013-01-12 04:12:13 UTC
While this new fancy ( & expensive ) technology is becoming available, that doesn't mean it will be mainstream any time soon.


I personally have no desire to have a touch-screen functionality for my PC.


Laptop screens are too small.


Large screens need to be too far away for a touch screen to be useful.


I don't want to wave my hands about in the air to make it work either.


Look at the average age of the eve player, and realize that while technology trends might well change, the eve playerbase will not be the fasted to change along with them.


If and when it becomes a necessity, CCP will make the changes so eve can continue to be played.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
The Hamilton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#330 - 2013-01-12 04:43:30 UTC
The PC is fine. It just won't be used the same way. Internet cafes are their future. You will rent your time to access a high end PC that you have no reason to own. EVE will have to make some kind of effort to migrate to that community because as such only the most popular games are available. Cloud based clients I suspect are part of PC gaming future so to avoid this problem.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#331 - 2013-01-12 04:47:40 UTC
The only upgrade I want to see in eve is:

Neural Interface Immersive Reality Devices

A device which you hook up to your PC, and it puts you, In the game literally. Could even add a new computing platform called a "P.O.D." to house the entire system and Game. You enter the POD, lay back put on your headset/neural interface. Hit Load, and Boom, you are in the game and ARE your character or avatar.

The system would use the processing power of your mind to build the reality of the game into a realistic simulation indistinguishable from real life, with the exception that all you need to do to log out is walk over to a console in a station or in an emergency press the log out button located on a divice attached to your cloans Arm, or inside your pod.

It would provide control to the game through your conscious mind and thoughts, the 3rd person view of your ship would remain the same, your interface, setup how you desire and controlled by your mind. you would feel the metal of your ship the liquid of your pod, you would be able to walk around stations as if you were actually there.

For a more detailed and visual example of what I am describing watch the first episode of "Caprica". And pay close attention to their VR program.
Wandering Eagle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#332 - 2013-01-12 06:51:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Wandering Eagle
To the OP: your a sad sad little miss-guided gamer

As a
Indy game developer
Would be Audio producer
Web-master
IT network specialist
PC Builder
and first and foremost a Gamer

your wrong and you opinions of steam's "opinions" are sorry.
Steam does not make or break the gaming world It helps it maybie but of the 6 billion+ people on the planet about 4 million use Steam you do the math on the percentages there its not very big or widely held "opinion".

I play games for the love of games I play eve for the same reason's many do. At the end of the day Desktops/laptops are not going anywhere. I have been building them for almost 16 years, your not the 1st to say "they are on the way out" nor will you be the last.

As for EvE well considering if they pull off the dust 514/EvE cross platform integration. They WILL be the first ever to either under take such a task or to complete it. That said CCP is way ahead of 90% of the developers out there in that right. CCP is taking risks and making ground that will more then likely have other game publishers follow in the wake if successful. (when I say "IF" I merely mean if the console fanboys will stick with it after the next COD or Battlefield) .

Either way good luck fly safe or die firing I'll be on my biiiiiittttch'n desktop till I get a neural jack installed in the back of my head.
ScoRpS
Moist Wanted.
OnlyFleets.
#333 - 2013-01-12 08:06:01 UTC  |  Edited by: ScoRpS
I love this game a lot and will always use what ever is necessary to run the game how I like it. And when I think of this game on mobile phones, touch screen pads and to some extent even lap tops, I shudder at how awkward it would be.

So as always its the software that carries the hardware. I wonder how many pc's were bought specifically with Eve in mind?
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#334 - 2013-01-12 09:02:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
Are tablets and smart phones becoming a lot more common and are they big business ?
Yes.

However I wish I had kept a review of windows 8 that I read a couple of weeks ago.
Where the reviewer actually compared productivity between windows 8 and windows 7.

The reviewer found that the keyboard and mouse was still the most effecient method to get things done.
Businesses may augment with tablets but you will not see the keyboard and mouse disappearing anytime soon.

As somebody who owns both pc's and mac and an ipad.
I have no wish to play a game on the ipad.

It really is the same arguement in regards to PC and gaming consoles.
While gaming consoles are nice for some games the best ones are still on PC's.

Besides can you imagine playing a game for several hours on a small screen ? or holding your arm up for several hours to tap a screen ?
No thanks I would rather have a nice monitor and a keyboard, mouse it is just a lot more relaxing.

And lets not forget about how much abuse keyboards and mice get when people get excited.
Keyboards are cheap to replace if you spill your coffee or keys start sticking from abuse.
How many console gaming pads have been replaced for the very same reasons ?
Abuse your nice touch screen.... OUCH that is going to hurt.
Marrnius DeLeon
Malevelon Roe Industries
Convocation of Empyreans
#335 - 2013-01-18 20:13:43 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Marrnius DeLeon wrote:
EVE with a touch screen would be so freaking amazing. Imagine if you could use your tablet or another monitor as the "dashboard" of your ship and have the screen clear of UI. SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!


You only say this because you haven't tried to adapt a control structure as complicated as Eve's onto a touch screen. Complicated systems like Eve do not translate well to iPads and similar devices.

-A Game Developer



You're right, I am not a game developer and have never attempted this. That's why I expressed an opinion and used the word imagine.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#336 - 2013-01-18 20:33:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
CCP recently indulged in a bit of self-congratulation following widespread media coverage of their 450,000th paid EVE subscription. Mainstream news outlets, including Forbes, actually remarked on the game’s success despite its venerability and outdated subscription model. EVE is proving unexpected staying power, growing steadily while other MMOs such as WoW have struggled to retain monthly customers.

This is all I read; just want to make that clear.

That's somewhat inaccurate and a little misleading.

They cited that they had reached a milestone of 450k "subscribers", but didn't emphasise enough that that was due to the reopening of the Chinese server, which took on roughly 100k players. CCP was able to increae their Chinese "subscrption" numbers when they reopened for business. Something to do with a new Chinese partner and marketting and such.

It was kind of glossed over in the article.

Anyways.
It's not 450 people on TQ, it's more like 350k plus 100k in china.
It's a milestone, but it keeps getting presented in a way that makes it seem like TQ gained an extra 100k subscribers, it didn't.



Just to play the part of the cynic.
CCP releases a new expansion, at just about the same time they reopen the Chinese server, and then Forbes does an article.

Some companies have the forsight to go to a media outlet WITH a story.
If I was CCP, and if I had a contact in some media outlet (keep in mind that CCP tends to get written about outside of the gaming press, and eventually people do get to know each other), I would have gone to that contact and said, "hey, would you be interested in writing a story".

Sometimes the writter goes to the story, sometimes the story comes to the writer, and every writter needs a story to write.


I'm not saying that's what happened, neither am I saying that doing such a thing is wrong. It's actually very smart. I would critisize CCP for NOT doing that.

There is intelligence in marketting.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#337 - 2013-01-18 20:40:20 UTC
As a happy owner of both a desktop and a tablet, I really don't understand why people are so eager to proclaim the death of this or that. They're tools. When CCP comes up with something that would work well on a tablet, they should publish it for tablets. When they have something that works well on desktops and laptops, they should publish it for desktops and laptops. If it can work on both, they should port it to both. Sales of all such machines are pretty healthy, and the installed bases are huge, especially given EVE's modest baselines for system and screen resolution.

I'd be happy to see EVE on a tablet just because the hyper-portability of my tablet would allow me to bring EVE with me to all kinds of places.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Hrothgar Nilsson
#338 - 2013-01-18 20:52:29 UTC
Another thing came to mind on this whole "PC is dying" and "tablets/smartphones are the future" spiel.

In addition to previous points:

1) The market for PCs has reached the saturation point, whereas smartphones/tablets have not. The number of homes in the US, for example, with at least one computer rose from 40% in 2000 to over 80% recently. That doesn't leave a huge market left to expand into as was formerly the case.

2) PCs are a more durable good with 10-15% the disposal rate of tablets/smartphones. So yes, 122 million ARM devices sold per year sounds impressive, but not when 100 million are thrown in the same time period.

3) PC software hasn't advanced so quickly that desktops several years old are necessarily obsolete.

I'd make another point:

4) Tablets/smartphones, in some cases distinct from those in which they're simply bought in addition to what's already owned, are simply replacing the role of an underutilized secondary or even tertiary home PC/laptop.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#339 - 2013-01-18 21:08:16 UTC
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
CCP recently indulged in a bit of self-congratulation following widespread media coverage of their 450,000th paid EVE subscription. Mainstream news outlets, including Forbes, actually remarked on the game’s success despite its venerability and outdated subscription model. EVE is proving unexpected staying power, growing steadily while other MMOs such as WoW have struggled to retain monthly customers.

All this attention might suggest the future of EVE is rosy and bright, but consider:

- The future of traditional x86 and x64 PC architecture is increasingly vague. Laptops have been outselling desktop systems for years, but tablet sales are gaining exponentially. A whopping 122 million ARM-based tablets and smartphones sold in 2012.

- Within two years, ARM devices will account for more than half of all personal computer sales.

- 97% of those devices will employ touch as their primary input. A full 50% will support gesture input and 10% will natively display stereoscopic 3D.

- The PC gaming industry has little appetite for Windows 8, as evidenced by leaders such as Valve Software. Valve is currently backing an aggressive transition to Steam for Linux, with a repository of 40 games and counting already available to open-source users. Valve is also throwing support behind Oculus Rift, a revolutionary developing virtual reality system.

All this points to something CCP isn't admitting: their flagship game title could soon become too damn inconvenient to play if it remains bound for all time to traditional PCs.

For the moment, EVE’s subscribers are loyal and (on the whole) pleased with the status quo. CCP just completed their 18th successful expansion, filling EVE with upgrades and goodies ranging from simplified combat functions to baffling trading cards. Players are heavily invested in EVE, emotionally, financially, and otherwise.

But ARM and other mobile technologies are maturing fast, with multi-core processors, dedicated GPUs, and beautiful multi-touch displays claiming long-established PC territory, both in performance and sales. As our PCs age, we will replace them with touch-based multipurpose tablets, hybrid smartphones, and lord-knows-what other concoctions of techno-wizardry. Those who do choose a traditional PC may find Windows taking a backseat to Ubuntu and other platforms. The fact that these devices refuse to run EVE-Online will not deter us from choosing the device suited to our increasingly busy and mobile lives.

What’s troubling is that, to date, CCP has offered almost no interest beyond traditional PCs. They pulled official support for Linux in 2009, citing low usage. Fanfest attendees went wild last spring when CCP purportedly demonstrated EVE being tested on Android. But nearly a full year later, with no updates, no announcements, and no beta, we’re no longer convinced. It’s become clear CCP will never support many of the bleeding-edge technologies we most covet – mobile computing, open source operating systems, stereoscopic 3D, touch and gesture input, and virtual reality.

I predict a tipping point, perhaps one to two years in the future, where EVE fans, torn between a device that suits their needs and a device that runs EVE, will inevitably cancel their subscriptions and embrace a new era of personal computing. CCP will trumpet new expansions, drop all the tweaks and player content their little hearts desire, and even lower subscription prices, but the damage will be done.

CCP has time to pull it together, but it’s understandably harder and less interesting than designing new battlecruisers or tweaking mining yields. Bringing internet spaceships to a new generation of devices demands a complete interface overhaul, perhaps even a full-scale client rewrite. But in EVE’s greatest challenge lies also its greatest opportunity. Mobile and open-source gaming platforms are bringing accessibility and exposure to untouched masses. If CCP can’t get excited about retaining existing gamers, maybe the prospect of millions of potential new subscribers will whet their appetite for the job at hand.



Becareful in regards to citing hardware reasons for a software game. Things might be changing at the end of this year when MS officially discontinues support for WinXP.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

Nick Asir
Doomheim
#340 - 2013-01-18 21:24:53 UTC
I agree with OP. The future is coming whether you are ready for it or not. You can say that we will never grow out of bulky desktops and mouse and keyboard interfaces, but just remember very similar things were said when television first came out. Who would want to sit around a flashing box all day when you can just listen to the radio anyway?