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How EVE Became Obsolete (And why CCP hasn’t noticed)

First post
Author
Karak Terrel
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#281 - 2013-01-08 20:10:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Karak Terrel
Buzzy Warstl wrote:

They run Windows because you have to go out of your way to buy a desktop system with anything else.

And until a few years it was actually really hard to even buy your hardware without Windows. Now for the first time i got a laptop with Ubuntu preinstalled which of course bit the dust for Gentoo. But all my previous laptops came with Windows, no matter how hard i tried and how many times Microsoft said the seller has to take it back. At least one of those Windows got a tight prison VM and got disemboweled for DLLs wine needed. Sacrifice for a good cause

But it is getting better. I really don't care what others use, as long as no one forces me to use their crap. As long as they don't use Linux i don't get any requests from idiot-users to fix their ****. Well i get them anyway, but i know even less than they do about Windows, so there...
Iggy Wasrite
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#282 - 2013-01-08 20:53:05 UTC
The people swinging the market are people that are not playing Eve anyways.

People whom play Eve will always have a device that plays the game if that is what he/she enjoys.

The only thing I see in the future for Eve is maybe having to support ARM. Desktop PCs will become smaller and more power efficient and will mostly likely have ARM chips to achieve this. ARM is catching up with x86 with a smaller energy footprint as heat footprint. Desktops will someday ship with ARM as standard (happening already in some instances).

Point is, people buy what they find useful. Desktop PCs are not going anywhere, might become a niche market but will not go away.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#283 - 2013-01-08 21:25:39 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
There's also:

People use it, because they're used to it and don't like change (or rebuying all their software)


Second part of that's a little redundant, because Linux OS and software is free.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Nytak
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#284 - 2013-01-08 21:29:47 UTC
Until a tablet can crank out graphics like a pair of 680s in SLI while still maintaining 8-12 hours battery life, PC's will continue to be the platform of choice for non-console gaming.
Le Badass
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#285 - 2013-01-08 22:43:31 UTC
... For you.
There's a huge mid-range gamer market where people will game on budget hardware.

Besides, the trend is for each user to get more and more computers, which means that even the hard core enthusiasts will eventually get themselves additional devices for niche purposes.

If they can get cheap, mobile devices able to run mainstream games, that will help them penetrate the market that much easier.
Garreth Vlox
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#286 - 2013-01-09 01:21:49 UTC
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
CCP recently indulged in a bit of self-congratulation following widespread media coverage of their 450,000th paid EVE subscription. Mainstream news outlets, including Forbes, actually remarked on the game’s success despite its venerability and outdated subscription model. EVE is proving unexpected staying power, growing steadily while other MMOs such as WoW have struggled to retain monthly customers.

All this attention might suggest the future of EVE is rosy and bright, but consider:

- The future of traditional x86 and x64 PC architecture is increasingly vague. Laptops have been outselling desktop systems for years, but tablet sales are gaining exponentially. A whopping 122 million ARM-based tablets and smartphones sold in 2012.

- Within two years, ARM devices will account for more than half of all personal computer sales.

- 97% of those devices will employ touch as their primary input. A full 50% will support gesture input and 10% will natively display stereoscopic 3D.

- The PC gaming industry has little appetite for Windows 8, as evidenced by leaders such as Valve Software. Valve is currently backing an aggressive transition to Steam for Linux, with a repository of 40 games and counting already available to open-source users. Valve is also throwing support behind Oculus Rift, a revolutionary developing virtual reality system.

All this points to something CCP isn't admitting: their flagship game title could soon become too damn inconvenient to play if it remains bound for all time to traditional PCs.

For the moment, EVE’s subscribers are loyal and (on the whole) pleased with the status quo. CCP just completed their 18th successful expansion, filling EVE with upgrades and goodies ranging from simplified combat functions to baffling trading cards. Players are heavily invested in EVE, emotionally, financially, and otherwise.

But ARM and other mobile technologies are maturing fast, with multi-core processors, dedicated GPUs, and beautiful multi-touch displays claiming long-established PC territory, both in performance and sales. As our PCs age, we will replace them with touch-based multipurpose tablets, hybrid smartphones, and lord-knows-what other concoctions of techno-wizardry. Those who do choose a traditional PC may find Windows taking a backseat to Ubuntu and other platforms. The fact that these devices refuse to run EVE-Online will not deter us from choosing the device suited to our increasingly busy and mobile lives.

What’s troubling is that, to date, CCP has offered almost no interest beyond traditional PCs. They pulled official support for Linux in 2009, citing low usage. Fanfest attendees went wild last spring when CCP purportedly demonstrated EVE being tested on Android. But nearly a full year later, with no updates, no announcements, and no beta, we’re no longer convinced. It’s become clear CCP will never support many of the bleeding-edge technologies we most covet – mobile computing, open source operating systems, stereoscopic 3D, touch and gesture input, and virtual reality.

I predict a tipping point, perhaps one to two years in the future, where EVE fans, torn between a device that suits their needs and a device that runs EVE, will inevitably cancel their subscriptions and embrace a new era of personal computing. CCP will trumpet new expansions, drop all the tweaks and player content their little hearts desire, and even lower subscription prices, but the damage will be done.

CCP has time to pull it together, but it’s understandably harder and less interesting than designing new battlecruisers or tweaking mining yields. Bringing internet spaceships to a new generation of devices demands a complete interface overhaul, perhaps even a full-scale client rewrite. But in EVE’s greatest challenge lies also its greatest opportunity. Mobile and open-source gaming platforms are bringing accessibility and exposure to untouched masses. If CCP can’t get excited about retaining existing gamers, maybe the prospect of millions of potential new subscribers will whet their appetite for the job at hand.



how many more alts are you going to use to paste the same whine thread over and over? Also, why would I ever want to play a game this input heavy on a touch screen device?

The LULZ Boat.

Jamyl Khanid
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#287 - 2013-01-09 02:29:48 UTC
EVE is obese?
MyFingID
Chernobyl Lobster
#288 - 2013-01-09 03:07:54 UTC
I'm sure this has already been said, but if not, the reason why tablets, smart phones, basically ARM chips are selling right now is because they're new. They are high in demand because not many people have them and they're getting to the point where they are becoming more useful. That said they cannot, and at this point will not, compete with a gaming PC. The only valid point is the possible emergence of Linux, and MS is sure to smack that down.

All that said I'd love to play eve on my phone.
SpoonRECKLESS
Beach Boys
The Minions.
#289 - 2013-01-09 04:56:15 UTC
I heard the Kinect was a good idea.

Blue

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#290 - 2013-01-09 08:54:20 UTC
Phoenix vajaa wrote:
A whole lot on conjecture.

laptop/tablet/desktop

who cares. 1 day the tablet will be so powerful you will be able to run eve on it and plug in a mouse keyboard and even screens,


This is true, which means an application needs to be designed for two drastically different input methods.

But touch screens will also one day be folding or rollable, and their color accuracy and contrast will be on par with current professional desktop displays. And that is when the situation changes in favour of touchscreen devices, and not before.

Try holding a rigid ISO A3 (420 x 297 mm / 16.5 x 11.7 in) - sized cardboard sheet in your hands. About the size of a 24" LCD screen, but much thinner and lighter. And folds away to a portable size. Imagine this is the future portable computer. You can hold it for some time with one hand, and use with another. Now put it on your lap, and imagine a folding stand behind it, that holds it in a comfortable angle on your lap, or on a table. Now you can use both your hands for multitouch interfacing on a large screen.

Add "fingerdots", tiny stickers/special ink dots in your index finger tips, making them equal to precision laser mouses.

Note that the reach of your upper limbs also dictate the maximum dimensions of such a device.

I see this technological level as the minimum for when I would give up on having a traditional workstation. Current tablets simply don't have enough screen estate or precision to perform the tasks that a large screen+mouse+keyboard combo handles with ease. And as long as tablets are rigid slabs of glass, they can't grow beyond current portable dimensions.

And at current size, they will always be niche devices, awesome for certain tasks that require low user interaction (passive content consumption and purpose-built games), but inherently incapable of tasks involving precision, accurate, rapid, complex command sequences or relying on massive amounts of simultaneous information.

.

TharOkha
0asis Group
#291 - 2013-01-09 09:27:07 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Le Badass wrote:

Besides, the trend is for each user to get more and more computers, which means that even the hard core enthusiasts will eventually get themselves additional devices for niche purposes.


Although i am a PC enthusialist with hi end multimonitor pc with a lot of gizmos, like headtracking (fantastic experience in FSX), various game controllers etc, I aslo have tablet and decent smartphone for internet browsing, e-mailing and casual games.

My point is. Being PC enthusialis doesnt mean that i have aversion for touch devices, game consoles or mobile devices.

But i DONT WANT EVE to become multiplatform game. It would mean compromises in game controls and graphics. Simply i am strictly aggainist multiplatform games, because it limits strongest link in the chain... PC in this case.

But what i would like to see is EVE related game for those devices, which would be connected to EVE world like Dust.
Le Badass
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#292 - 2013-01-09 09:51:36 UTC
TharOkha wrote:

Although i am a PC enthusialist with hi end multimonitor pc with a lot of gizmos, like headtracking (fantastic experience in FSX), various game controllers etc, I aslo have tablet and decent smartphone for internet browsing, e-mailing and casual games.

My point is. Being PC enthusialis doesnt mean that i have aversion for touch devices, game consoles or mobile devices.

But i DONT WANT EVE to become multiplatform game. It would mean compromises in game controls and graphics. Simply i am strictly aggainist multiplatform games, because it limits strongest link in the chain... PC in this case.

But what i would like to see is EVE related game for those devices, which would be connected to EVE world like Dust.


So what, you're just one guy. The entire mobile devices industry is throwing itself at mobile gaming.
Also, God forbid that you should be wrong on the internet, so of course you'd never play Eve on a mobile device.

According to Ramiel, programmers always make the fullest possible use of the hardware available, so you won't have to compromise on anything control/interface-wise when the mobile client does hit.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#293 - 2013-01-09 10:10:25 UTC
Le Badass wrote:

According to Ramiel, programmers always make the fullest possible use of the hardware available, so you won't have to compromise on anything control/interface-wise when the mobile client does hit.

Bullsh!t. Just look at Crysis2 or Diablo3.

EVE is maybe the last true PC game without any compromises.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#294 - 2013-01-09 10:39:08 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
Le Badass wrote:

According to Ramiel, programmers always make the fullest possible use of the hardware available, so you won't have to compromise on anything control/interface-wise when the mobile client does hit.

Bullsh!t. Just look at Crysis2 or Diablo3.

EVE is maybe the last true PC game without any compromises.



Christ, Eve is that last remaining this, the last remaining that, the top of this, the hard core of that... I say BS!!

You can't simply download it and make it work without issues, or it's 1 machine over a couple ones with no issues.
We're a lot of costumers with issues to run even a single account properly with hardware perfectly capable to run several accounts when other guys seem to have no problem at all, so I'd like to know from some genius, how the heck is this even possible on good machines, updated, download the same client and have different results?

Eve it's like oranges, when you download your client you never know if it's sweet or bitter Lol


removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#295 - 2013-01-09 11:53:58 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
[quote=Le Badass]
But i DONT WANT EVE to become multiplatform game. It would mean compromises in game controls and graphics. Simply i am strictly aggainist multiplatform games, because it limits strongest link in the chain... PC in this case.


While the OP is pretty much wrong in a majority of aspects, this bit is just as wrong... Graphics can be scaled down and input can be limited only for the more limited platform. In fact, that's often the basis for good cross-platform programs. Things are set to display differently based on the platform they appear on. Its more work, but it most definitely doesn't mean what you think it does. Plus EVE is largely a click game anyways. Not hard to transfer that bit of the control scheme over. They just wouldn't be able to hot key at all or anything else fancy like the PC version would be able to. Lets not let some people doing things half ass suddenly mean that it can't be done.
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#296 - 2013-01-09 23:05:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rath Kelbore
Ageck Kalenia wrote:
Moonaura wrote:
Oh boy, not another one of those 'The PC is dying' believers.

Yes. Smart devices and touch screens will grow. Just like consoles grew out of nothing as well. And just as people predicted consoles would kill PC gaming. It didn't. Everyone wanted to play WoW instead. Its been mildly way more successful than any console game.

Then there was 'Network Computing' - remember that one from the late 90's? When we'd all be using thin clients powered by Citrix servers? Hows that working out? I used to sell into that market, and rest assured it still sucks to use it.

Now it's the 'Cloud'. Big whoop. I was doing online syncing 10 years ago. It just got a new shiny PR names.

Different devices serve different purposes. If you want to go play touch screen games, good luck. I played Angry Birds. It was fun, but hardly 'deep'.

But great for touch screen. I can own both. And I have a PS3 with wonders like Journey on it.

As for Valve? For all their wailing, it hasn't altered their sales one bit. Windows 8? I love it. Never touch WIndows Store. Ever. Steam? Every day.

So Valve want to create a linux PC that plays games? And has the option of running it off the big screen? Great.

Then there is VR headsets. Great.

And Ouya in development. Great!

None of this will kill the PC. PC gaming hasn't diminished. It's grown.

EVE? Its doing better than ever thanks. Loving it. 20,000 more logged in that 8 months ago. I call that a return to form.

Think a touch screen will give you something as complex as EVE? As complex as WOW? Anytime soon? Good luck with that. The very nature of the device absolutely limits its functionality. Its not a question of hardware. Its a question of the interface.

Keyboard + Mouse = wide flexibility. Heck, I even plug my PS3 controller into my PC and make it think its an Xbox controller for all those great games like Mark of the Ninja. Can you're touch screen do that? It will only get better with the new VR headsets and surround screens, and screen prices will continue to plumet.

PC's. The futures so bright I need shades.


Well reasoned sir. I admire your optimism.

We are headed for a more fragmented marketplace where consumers will buy the device that matches their lifestyle. The lines are becoming blurred between smartphone, tablet, console, laptop, and desktop. Traditional desktop PCs (and laptops increasingly) are compatible with fewer and fewer lifestyles. If I wasn't a gamer, a $400 Android tablet would easily meet all my needs, and I would very likely own exactly that.

But if you tell me my $400 Android tablet can play an awesome sci-fi MMO for a low monthly fee, then you've made my day.

Users who cannot justify spending an extra $600 to $3600 on a clunky PC just so they can play games are the ones who will be shut out. And CCP will be the ultimate losers.


Your android can't play an awesome sci-fi MMO, that's the point. Will it be able to in the future, probably, and when it does we will.

Your point is pretty invalid at this juncture. Maybe re post this when there are tablet/phone games that compare to EVE. Also, why do you think CCP is ignoring this emerging market?

You gave a prediction of 1 to 2 years, I hope that in Jan of 2015 (if EVE is still around ZOMG) you make another post detailing the accuracy of your prediction.

Edit: I am very much for ccp expanding eve to other os/devices btw. A simplified EVE client for android? Yes please. I'd like to update market orders from my phone.

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.

TharOkha
0asis Group
#297 - 2013-01-10 08:09:03 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:

Christ, Eve is that last remaining this, the last remaining that, the top of this, the hard core of that... I say BS!!
You can't simply download it and make it work without issues, or it's 1 machine over a couple ones with no issues.


Im talking about PC exclusive games and their abilities compared to multiplatform games, not about their bugs. Big smile

Aren Madigan wrote:
While the OP is pretty much wrong in a majority of aspects, this bit is just as wrong... Graphics can be scaled down and input can be limited only for the more limited platform.


I dont agree. Look at Crysis1 for example. devs said that even on lowest setting it wouldnt be possible to run it on consoles (Game from 2007 !!!) . Its not just about the graphics, but also about ammount of Ram and processing power. If you want to develop more and more complex games and im not speaking just about graphics, but about complexity of AI, scale of levels and YOU NEED RAW POWER.

Look at Portal 2 for example. Great game but Levels are so tiny (loading on every corner) because devs were limited by tiny RAM of consoles.

In short. Multiplatform gamedevs are not looking at the abilities of 8 thread i7s and 16gbs of ram but at the weakest link in the chain. Then they jst add some eyecandy for strong rigs, but the core of the game is still crippled.

So i still stand my ground. Im againist multiplatform games.
rswfire
#298 - 2013-01-10 08:33:12 UTC
The title of your post sounded interesting, because I do believe CCP has some very serious issues they are ignoring, and it will reach a point where it creates issues with the player base. However, this isn't one of them.

Good for you for quoting some marketing data and statistics. The trends are irrelevant, however. I own just about every device imaginable, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to play video games on any of the devices you just mentioned.

Here's a test for you. Would you play Eve on PS Vita? Would many? If the answer is no, your entire post is meaningless drivel. Sorry if that comes across abrasively, but your post annoyed me.
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#299 - 2013-01-10 08:34:45 UTC
The Day Eve ends up on iphone is the REAL Mayan End of Days.

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.

Le Badass
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#300 - 2013-01-10 08:45:58 UTC
Well, this turned out to be a very emotional nerd-debate.
I'm sure all the big manufacturers and game companies will see this thread and stop all development into mobile gaming devices and multi-platform games and apps.

Let's debate again in a few years.