EVE General Discussion

Something people should keep in mind, especially when they watch the BR from Notoras is that the game has changed a lot in the last years. Basicly every fleet has long range webs, at least out to 35 (fed navies on a loki without heat/ganglinks) up to 100 k. Webs and painters are the nemesis of a logi, negating its ability to speed/sigtank. At that point with the current powercreep in alpha/dps you get quickly to a point where even our kaboose fit gets tested to its limits and quite often breaks. I do realize that this problem is slightly less prevalent with a lot of shield comps that tend to stay at range anyway. Still, with the higher speed chances are also higher that the fleet spreads out further. You could counter that with anchoring up but that puts the whole requiring more skill argument ad absurdum.

However the op should ask himself why T3 logis never really made their breakthrough. I remember fighting Shadow Cartel about a year or so ago. They had a very nice group of tengu logis that tanked really well. However one web on one logi and the whole group was pinned down. Reps broke cause not everybody reacted in time (which is, in fairness, really difficult once you run a fleet that is larger than a couple of people). Short range reps also ties your whole fleet down to the speed of the slowest ships cause you lose the ability to contract and extend your fleet coverage across the grid.

There are counters against logis, some are more effective, some less. People have experimented with damps, bonussed and unbonussed ecm, ecm drone, neuts and simple alpha. The Notoras fight was really tight for a while cause our cap chains kept dropping. If you see Rokkisys guardian drop rather late in the fight after some dps had already been cleared from the field, this happened exactly because ECM was overwhelming the logi group. Even though we knew he was dying we couldn't muster enough reps to keep him afloat.
While i can understand that fighting against logi supported gangs can be frustrating, they can make up for really interesting tug of wars, even though that has declined in the age of alpha. Still, that frustration can be experienced when fighting against any force using one or more force multipliers. Still there are huge differences how one can apply those factors and the level of experience and efficiency between different logi groups is sometimes staggering. The same applies to the ability of a group to apply damage effectively as well, btw.

Generally the problem with people on the forum making suggestions for buffs and nerfs is that they tend to view the game just from their perspective rather than trying to look at it from different angles. What seems to be unbalanced in solo pvp might be ok in fleet warfare and vice versa and its pretty difficult to alway hit the right spot designwise. However cutting down range on logis by 50 % or more is just going to increase the DPS powercreep that has really started to get rolling with the tier 3 BCs but also with much tighter doctrines being used across eve.

CCP. DONT NERF LOGI. we dont need another doomed ship type. like titans. currently they are just a "mobile" jump bridge. dont make carriers ship transporters/ammo refilers (they already do that too often. dont make it the only use)

slap on a MWD and aggro the ship, problem solved.