These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next page
 

Newer Player Looking for Small-Ship PvP Advice
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Siekman Beldrulf
Gingerbread Spacemen
Intaki-Business Logistics Union
#1 - 2013-01-05 08:37:16 UTC
Hello Everyone!

I am interested in starting to pvp in lowsec with some sort of frigate / dessy / cruiser. I am mostly interested in ships that can do well solo but add something in small groups as well. I have started by looking at the cruisers and have some interest in either a Rupture or a Stabber but am unsure. I lurk on the forums and read people talk about the same ships day-in and day out and I'm growing concerned that if I do not fly X ship, I do not stand a chance.

My main concern is that with a Rupture or Stabber I won't be able to get through someone's tank. As fun as it sounds to sit there and watch my modules spin as I waste ammo on a tank I cannot even hope to penetrate, I'd prefer to actually have a chance :p. I am not terribly well skilled: At 2.8 million skill points (thrown EVERYWHERE), I don't really have the skills for most of the prescribed modules. Can I still go out and try to pvp without full tech II modules? Or should I sit in station until my character has decided he's learned enough.

I have absolutely no issues with dying in pvp. In fact I expect to die often. I just want to be able to fly a ship that once in awhile I can actually get a kill in. If anyone can steer me in the right direction regarding ships recommendations and module suggestions I would be deeply appreciative.

Thanks again!

Siekman
Morgan Torry
Arma Purgatorium
#2 - 2013-01-05 08:50:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Morgan Torry
Here, I'll give you three things to think about, since you are new and I'd love to see you on the field some day. So I hope you have a positive experience after following said advise:

1. You are asking this question on the forums, meaning your corporation is poorly equipped to help you (not the right corp for you) or you didn't ask. Either way there's a problem there...your corporation is your first source of help and aid in times of need and confusion in this game. It's also the first place for comradeship and brotherhood - find a good one that shares your interests.

Ninja Edit: Just saw you're your own CEO. Although it's a noble effort, I can't say this enough: Get with a corp of experienced pilots. They'll help you out so much and I can't stop saying it. Plus, if you screw up royally and end up low on funds, a lot of them may just give you ISK/ships if you're a cool guy and learning. So free stuff.

2. You're talking about cruiser fighting when you barely have enough SP to even fly a cruiser with AWU (Advanced Weapons Upgrades, very important fitting skill if you did not already know). Just to give you an idea of what you're looking at: T2 defensive mods, T2 guns (easily, 24 day train there in just guns), at least your racial Cruiser IV (though V, as always, is best), as well as a whole lot of support skills. Trajectory Analysis, Navigation, Fuel Conservation, Mechanics, Shield Management, Hull Upgrades, and the list goes on and on. If you're stuck on cruiser, it's good to pick a fighting style: brawler or kiter. From there, you pick. Rupture is more of an artillery/long range platform, while Stabber is more of a fly fast and shoot faster boat.

3. If this is your first true pvp experience, which I imagine it is, I highly recommend flying frigates first. Yes, they're small. Yes, they're cheap. Yes, they're insignificant. That's what makes them so good...you learn so much by flying frigates that it's unbelievable. Skipping out on knowing how to grab someone as they warp in, as they go to warp off, when to engage or disengage, you learn all of this in frigate fights. Best part is: They're super fast. So you get in, watch your mistakes happen (and they will), and reship in under 15 minutes and be in another fight. Plus, most FW pilots in lowsec fly frigates - so you'd be on even terms. The Rifter, since I assume you're training into Minmatar first, is an excellent choice to get started. Although some may advise against it, I have found some enjoyment in the Breacher as well - though that demands a bit of support skills to fly effectively.

Arma Purgatorium - What is Podded May Never Die
Siekman Beldrulf
Gingerbread Spacemen
Intaki-Business Logistics Union
#3 - 2013-01-05 09:08:23 UTC
Hey Morgan Torry,

Thanks for responding! I really appreciate it. To respond to your points:

1) The corporation that I am in is a group of friends that has gotten together for the purpose of having fun. However, we have also grown the corp to 21 members. Every one of us is new but we're learning as fast as possible.

2) I agree that flying a cruiser seems a little impossible now that you have listed the amount of skills required to fight effectively with them :p. I will probably stick with a frigate.

3) I actually enjoy flying a frigate and only considered flying a cruiser because of others I have talked to in-game. They told me I'll never be able to take down another ship in a rifter. I thought that was untrue but wasn't sure, so I came here :p.

I have a few additional questions for flying a frigate if you will continue to humor me:

A) If I fly a frigate in FW or other areas of lowsec, should I always use the best modules possible. For example, should I be fitting tech II modules as I can use them? Should I always fit rigs? I understand that using the best modules will help my performance, but as a frigate will the numbers the better modules put out be worth spending the additional millions of isk?

B) Most importantly to me, will a frigate like a rifter be able to take down another ship (besides the afker/botter). I have no issues with dying, I just strongly desire reassurance that I will actually be able to take something down. If I have a chance, nothing else matters.

C) Odd question time: Sentry guns - Does FW have them and what is their attack range? Just a few hours ago I had a corp mate get popped by them and I don't want the same to happen to me :p.

Anyways, thanks again for the response and I hope to hear from you and others again soon.

Siekman
Rammes lol
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-01-05 09:48:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammes lol
If want to take a second to try out some pvp and get some great leasons in on small scale i would recomend droping your corp and join the fight between RvB (red vs blue) great way to see how pvp is done. get like 15 frigs/desy and have at it. in doing so it will give you time to train up more skills to go to low in a more effecitve group and not a cluster F**K.

If you find yourself in a fair fight in EvE your tactics suck!!!
Aemonn Ikari
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-01-05 10:02:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Aemonn Ikari
Siekman Beldrulf wrote:
Hey Morgan Torry,
A) If I fly a frigate in FW or other areas of lowsec, should I always use the best modules possible. For example, should I be fitting tech II modules as I can use them? Should I always fit rigs? I understand that using the best modules will help my performance, but as a frigate will the numbers the better modules put out be worth spending the additional millions of isk?

B) Most importantly to me, will a frigate like a rifter be able to take down another ship (besides the afker/botter). I have no issues with dying, I just strongly desire reassurance that I will actually be able to take something down. If I have a chance, nothing else matters.

C) Odd question time: Sentry guns - Does FW have them and what is their attack range? Just a few hours ago I had a corp mate get popped by them and I don't want the same to happen to me :p.


A) You should fit T2 if the module provides a significant advantage over the T1/meta counterpart and if you have the CPU/PG for the higher fitting requirements. Modules that pretty much always should be T2 if you can use it are weapons, tank and damage mods. You can leave propulsion and many utility modules like web/TD/scram at meta 3/4 without losing much or anything at all. If you can't fit T2, don't worry too much about it, but you should learn the skills relatively soon.

B) A single rifter flown by a new pilot can kill other frigates, especially if they make mistakes or if they are in the wrong ship for that kind of fight. E.g. if you engage a blaster ship and can keep out of range of the blasters, you are at a huge advantage and can likely kill that ship. But as a lone pilot with low skills you will be at a significant disadvantage most of the time. I still would recommend you to take some of your friends with you, a handful of frigates can engage much more targets sucessfully than a lone frigate.

C) Gate guns fire on you if you commit a crime near a gate. Attacking a neutral ship for example will cause the gate guns to fire on you, so don't do that in a frigate as it won't survive the gate guns. If you are in FW, attacking pilots of your enemy milita is not a crime, and the gate guns won't care about it.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#6 - 2013-01-05 12:58:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
For cruiser pvp

Get a Caracal.

Precede to violate.


PS: Rifters are terrible

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#7 - 2013-01-05 15:20:34 UTC
Quote:
A) You should fit T2 if the module provides a significant advantage over the T1/meta counterpart and if you have the CPU/PG for the higher fitting requirements. Modules that pretty much always should be T2 if you can use it are weapons, tank and damage mods. You can leave propulsion and many utility modules like web/TD/scram at meta 3/4 without losing much or anything at all. If you can't fit T2, don't worry too much about it, but you should learn the skills relatively soon.


There's nothing wrong with t1 or meta fitting a frig or cruiser. T2 fittings are significantly better but are also significantly more expensive. T2 fittings are a luxury. They're a nice luxury to have that are within the price range of the majority of the playerbase, but far from mandatory.

Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Thermodynamics
#8 - 2013-01-05 15:50:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Liam Inkuras
Stuck on what to train for using a ship? Certificates. Lots and lots, of certificates. Just train the recommended ones for each ship and that should give you a basic level of operational skill for it.
Edit: sorry that isn't really related to what you asked. I'm tired Oops .. Anywho, for frigate pvp, I highly recommend the Slasher. They are quick, agile, and can do decent dps. Really try to get a few friends to come along with you. If they won't I'd say drop corp and join Red vs Blue. You'll have loads of fun because it won't be blobtastic like FW. Of course many of the older players will rip you a new one but hey, that's expected in everything. You can get kills while broadening your knowledge and increasing your skills.

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Maire Gheren
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2013-01-05 16:02:03 UTC
Siekman Beldrulf wrote:
3) I actually enjoy flying a frigate and only considered flying a cruiser because of others I have talked to in-game. They told me I'll never be able to take down another ship in a rifter. I thought that was untrue but wasn't sure, so I came here :p.
A one day old character in a Slasher can take down some pretty over the top stuff. Skills are an edge, not the whole knife. These are frigates we're talking about. You're expected to lose some. When you fire on something in PVP, and are actually in a decent optimal and tracking, the damage bars fill very fast so don't think you cant take anything down.
Quote:
A) If I fly a frigate in FW or other areas of lowsec, should I always use the best modules possible.
Until you have some fights under your belt and are having enough fights end as being close that you can recognize what's going on, do not fit anything higher than Meta 3.
Quote:
B) Most importantly to me, will a frigate like a rifter be able to take down another ship (besides the afker/botter)
Yes. There's plenty of videos and stories about characters who are less than a week old tearing apart big shiny new ships like they were tissue paper.
Angron Vail
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-01-05 17:16:50 UTC
Quote:
Siekman Beldrulf wrote:
3) I actually enjoy flying a frigate and only considered flying a cruiser because of others I have talked to in-game. They told me I'll never be able to take down another ship in a rifter. I thought that was untrue but wasn't sure, so I came here :p.



Who ever told you that is an idiot.
Go on eve kill or battle clinic and look at the following corps:

Black Rebel Rifter Club
Black Dragon Fighting Society
The Tuskers
The Rifterlings
Gunpoint Diplomacy

These corps feild some of the best Frig pilots in the game, and they have killed everyship in the game in a frig.

Quote:
A) If I fly a frigate in FW or other areas of lowsec, should I always use the best modules possible.


Stay away from Dead space and faction mods in a t-1 frig, the cost 3x your hull, fit what is comfortable to you, and makes sense. look at the loss mails of those corps for fits, 99% are really good.

Quote:
B) Most importantly to me, will a frigate like a rifter be able to take down another ship (besides the afker/botter)


Everyday of the week, but it takes time. Expect to lose alot, don't get fustrated, ask questions and have fun.

A good starting frig for low SP IMO would be the incursus, it has decent dps and good survivabilty. A basic dual rep fit, can get you through some pretty nasty fights as a new player, but thats just MO.

http://thehoodedhorror.blogspot.com/
Morgan Torry
Arma Purgatorium
#11 - 2013-01-05 19:09:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Morgan Torry
These guys all have good advise, except the one who says the Rifter is trash. Really, most ships in the game can be made good if flown correctly, fitted even more so correctly, and flown to maximize their strengths and exploit the opponent's weaknesses. In a Hookbill, a navy faction frig (so a bit more expensive than you're looking at now I'd imagine) I've taken on two destroyers simply by exploiting their weaknesses. You are no different - you can do just this. To get to that level all you need is the experience that's only won by losing fights.

Just think of it this way: A lost ship is ISK used to buy something. That something is experience. A dead opponent is free experience. With that in mind, you'll always do well. Something else to consider:

FW is free for corps to get into, but be very weary when joining - many alliances in low are NBSI (shoots you automatically if your standings are not blue) and you immediately become a wartarget even in highsec to the enemy. There's no better place for you to get small scale PvP experience in EVE, imo, so that's a great place for your corp to look if you're bent on remaining there. If not, I know of plenty of training corps in FW (my own included, but I digress) that would love to take in large groups to help them learn the curve.

Arma Purgatorium - What is Podded May Never Die
Dan Carter Murray
#12 - 2013-01-06 00:24:18 UTC
Join FW.

Also, forget minmatar ships. They take the lowest amount of skill to fly.

If you want to join minmatar/gallente then you're going to learn nothing about pvp tbh.

Join the losing side in FW and you'll end up learning a **** ton more.

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
Siekman Beldrulf
Gingerbread Spacemen
Intaki-Business Logistics Union
#13 - 2013-01-06 05:17:27 UTC
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
Join FW.

Also, forget minmatar ships. They take the lowest amount of skill to fly.

If you want to join minmatar/gallente then you're going to learn nothing about pvp tbh.

Join the losing side in FW and you'll end up learning a **** ton more.



Alright. If no minmatar ships, which race? Also, having played other games, I know playing on the losing side helps you learn far better. Who should I join? Caldari / Amarr?
Maire Gheren
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2013-01-06 05:44:44 UTC
Morgan Torry wrote:
These guys all have good advise, except the one who says the Rifter is trash.
It's not that it's trash. It's a good ship. It's that every guide for the past decade-ish has said 'OMG fly Rifter you're stupid if you dont fly Rifter Rifter is the bestest frigate in the game!' and all those guides are out there.. welcome to 2013.. everything has been brought up to at least Rifter level, and Rifter isn't even the most popular frigate for Minmatar pilots anymore.
Shadow Adanza
Gold Crest Salvage
#15 - 2013-01-06 07:10:09 UTC
Siekman Beldrulf wrote:



Alright. If no minmatar ships, which race?

I wouldn't let one person sway you on the race of ships you fly, each have their advantages and disadvantages and in time you'll likely have the skills to fly each of the races. The race of ships you fly now are merely the first stepping stone in your career.

Go with whatever ships you like the most... for any reason at all. It's a game and it's supposed to be fun to learn so do it in something you like. Don't be afraid to try different fittings, ships, anything. They're cheap and they're fun. That's all that matters, really. Find some good pilots to learn from, (lovingly) take fits from their loss mails, don't be afraid to ask their advice. Hell, even ask the person you just fought in a losing effort. Often times they're more than willing to talk about what you could've done better in the fight or how they played it.

Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Arianne Stone
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-01-06 16:10:56 UTC
Merlin is a good starter ship, IMHO, the standard fit has a good tank, good damage output and is fairly simple to fly, FW space is the best area to look for fights and you'll come across some pilots of your own age, so will have a half decent chance of beating them.
Oh and don't forget to train Thermodynamics, overheating is essential in pvp.
Dan Carter Murray
#17 - 2013-01-06 19:04:41 UTC
Siekman Beldrulf wrote:
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
Join FW.

Also, forget minmatar ships. They take the lowest amount of skill to fly.

If you want to join minmatar/gallente then you're going to learn nothing about pvp tbh.

Join the losing side in FW and you'll end up learning a **** ton more.



Alright. If no minmatar ships, which race? Also, having played other games, I know playing on the losing side helps you learn far better. Who should I join? Caldari / Amarr?


Caldari is losing worse than Amarr.

I would say start learning Amarr ships. They take the most "skill" to fly ("skill" means you actually have to pay attention to what the **** you're doing because your guns fire a lot of capacitor out their barrels). They have the "strongest" tanks or so it has been said. They only do 2 damage types, but you can swap the ranges (different ammo types) instantly.

Gallente is another good race of ships that does wtfomgbbq damage, they are fast, their drones do omgwtflolcat damage as well. they only do 2 types of damage as well, but close range guns (blasters) require targets to be close. closer. come closer.

Caldari is yet another good race of ships which allows you to use missile or the same guns that gallente use (hybrid turrets). Missiles are very strong now as well.

Anyway, join FW for pvp. If you want to fly minmatar ships then do what you want, but I would recommend a different race first. In fact, if you fly Minmatar ships AFTER you've been flying Amarr/Gallente/Caldari then you'll fly the minmatar ships about 350x better than anyone else can.

Just remember: "skill" in pvp is bullshit...it's about OGB, implants, SP, and fit. 10% is what you're doing with your keyboard and mouse.

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#18 - 2013-01-06 19:58:09 UTC
Dan Carter Murray wrote:

Anyway, join FW for pvp. If you want to fly minmatar ships then do what you want, but I would recommend a different race first. In fact, if you fly Minmatar ships AFTER you've been flying Amarr/Gallente/Caldari then you'll fly the minmatar ships about 350x better than anyone else can.



This is probably quite true as minnie ships have a greater skill base (i.e. number of skills) that affect how they fly. The toher races can be trained up (char SP) to be effective a lot quicker than a general selection of minnie ships.

I fly all races equally skilled (in SP) but I prefer flying amarr/minnie. I have found that what DCM has said to be true I learned PVP in amarr ships and it was a lot easier to put that experience into the minnie ships.

To be honest the races are more balanced now than ever before and in the long run you'll probably end up cross training anyways as you tastes/style changes as you develop. My advice would be to pick a ship you like the look/idea of and fly that. Most ships from the frigate/destroyer & cruiser classes have roles they can fullfill.

And I agree FW is an excellent place to come for pvp experience that you can fund easily. Caldari or amarr are 'losing' so you'll probably get more experience in either of those.....

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Siekman Beldrulf
Gingerbread Spacemen
Intaki-Business Logistics Union
#19 - 2013-01-07 07:36:06 UTC
Hi again Everyone!

Sorry to keep giving everyone notifications. I'm really considering flying amarr ships but am unsure of which one to pick first. I'm probably going to just use an amarr frigate. Is the executioner any good? Once I have a ship fit and ready to go I'll head out for faction warfare.

Thanks again for any help you can give!

Siekman
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#20 - 2013-01-07 11:27:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
Morgan Torry wrote:
These guys all have good advise, except the one who says the Rifter is trash. Really, most ships in the game can be made good if flown correctly, fitted even more so correctly, and flown to maximize their strengths and exploit the opponent's weaknesses.



And i have killed a sfi in a brawling frig duo. Doesn't mean that its a likely outcome..


A ship being trash doesn't mean you can't kill with it.. It just means that its worse than any other ship in its class.. I put rifters in the same mental catagory as dual rep incursuses.. Free kills.


Seriously people need to let go..


EDIT: To the responce above. The executioner is decent if you use it for scram kiting.

Also if you want Minmatar, Armor slasher is good at 1v1's and the Breacher is ******* boss.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

123Next page