These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Is buying PLEX a bad thing?

First post
Author
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#21 - 2013-01-05 03:39:44 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Esra Sudeitredas wrote:
I feel so ******* stupid right now


Threads have consequences. Now you know, and knowing is 53% of the battle.

the other 47% being radio and gamma lasers?

Multifrequency pulse lazers on an Abaddon.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#22 - 2013-01-05 03:55:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
everybody CANT buy plex with ISK. since plex is a limited resource. people have to buy plex with $ first and sell it in the market. a plex is also more expensive as one month via regular subscription.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-01-05 04:34:55 UTC
its a free market. If more people buy plex with cash, the price of plex will lower, more people start up more alts or stop paying with their cards and it balances out.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-01-05 05:25:35 UTC
Every time you bring a plex into the game, another bot is born to create the necessary isk.Lol
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2013-01-05 05:39:36 UTC
Esra Sudeitredas wrote:
I mean, for the game?

The more people that buy PLEX, the more people who DON'T PvE, or mine, or trade?

What if everybody bought PLEX instead of making money the normal ways?

Idunno...


No. Buy as much PLEX as you can. Go forth and destroy!

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#26 - 2013-01-05 10:12:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ptraci
Bienator II wrote:
since plex is a limited resource


[citation needed]

CCP can create PLEX out of thin air, so it's not as limited as you might think. Of course they do not confirm they are doing this, but they do not deny it either. They certainly have the ability to do it if they wanted to though.
Lexmana
#27 - 2013-01-05 10:32:45 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
since plex is a limited resource


[citation needed]

CCP can create PLEX out of thin air, so it's not as limited as you might think. Of course they do not confirm they are doing this, but they do not deny it either. They certainly have the ability to do it if they wanted to though.

From the perspective of an EVE character and in-game economy PLEX is certainly a limited resource. But as we all know, things are never that simple.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#28 - 2013-01-05 10:35:30 UTC
Esra Sudeitredas wrote:
I mean, for the game?

The more people that buy PLEX, the more people who DON'T PvE, or mine, or trade?

What if everybody bought PLEX instead of making money the normal ways?

Idunno...


Then the price of PLEX on the market would fall, and more people would start making ISK

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#29 - 2013-01-05 10:36:11 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
since plex is a limited resource


[citation needed]

CCP can create PLEX out of thin air, so it's not as limited as you might think. Of course they do not confirm they are doing this, but they do not deny it either. They certainly have the ability to do it if they wanted to though.



IIRC, CCP use PLEX and ISK confiscated from RMTers and Botters for market levelling operations.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Lexmana
#30 - 2013-01-05 10:46:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Malcanis wrote:
Ptraci wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
since plex is a limited resource


[citation needed]

CCP can create PLEX out of thin air, so it's not as limited as you might think. Of course they do not confirm they are doing this, but they do not deny it either. They certainly have the ability to do it if they wanted to though.



IIRC, CCP use PLEX and ISK confiscated from RMTers and Botters for market levelling operations.

Interesting, I can't really see a benefit for CCP to sell PLEX for ISK on the market. I could see a benefit of buying PLEX for ISK on the market though under certain circumstances but that would create a new faucet that would not be very popular among EVE players. I think the market handle the situation very well and there is not much need to interfere (even if CCP could and might if something exceptional happes).
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#31 - 2013-01-05 11:21:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Ptraci
Lexmana wrote:

Interesting, I can't really see a benefit for CCP to sell PLEX for ISK on the market.


It would cost them nothing except the time and effort to do it, and remove ISK from the economy which would put a cap on inflation. In theory this would "devalue" PLEX, but since PLEX is fixed to the dollar/euro, the "value" isn't going anywhere. I'm not saying they are doing this but certainly it is a tool they have to control the economy and keep it within acceptable parameters. Eyog had mentioned the desire to create a sort of "reserve bank" a long, long time ago. PLEX can easily be used that way to soak up excess ISK. After all you have no idea how many actual players are trading cash for PLEX, and neither do I.

Edit: added the following

I understand from the gist of your post that CCP would "benefit" from driving up the isk value of PLEX, since they would sell more PLEX to the public if you get more isk for your dollar. However I'm sure they take the health of the EVE economy seriously. If the economy tanks, the game tanks, and keeping the game going is much more in CCP's interest than selling a few extra PLEX.
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#32 - 2013-01-05 11:27:47 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
PvE players paying for their subscription with PLEX


You can pay with PLEX without PVEing, I squirm at the thought of shooting little red crosses or asteroids and I haven't paid any accounts by CC for a long time.
Lexmana
#33 - 2013-01-05 11:48:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Ptraci wrote:
Lexmana wrote:

Interesting, I can't really see a benefit for CCP to sell PLEX for ISK on the market.


It would cost them nothing except the time and effort to do it, and remove ISK from the economy which would put a cap on inflation. In theory this would "devalue" PLEX, but since PLEX is fixed to the dollar/euro, the "value" isn't going anywhere. I'm not saying they are doing this but certainly it is a tool they have to control the economy and keep it within acceptable parameters. Eyog had mentioned the desire to create a sort of "reserve bank" a long, long time ago. PLEX can easily be used that way to soak up excess ISK. After all you have no idea how many actual players are trading cash for PLEX, and neither do I.

I can see a benefit to try stabilise a market in a real world economy by having a central bank buy and sell stuff. But, in a game like EVE, market fluctuations are not a bad thing because it creates opportunities and gameplay and thus should probably not be countered.

One could make an argument for CCP to try to destabilise the market in order to create more opportunities for players but I can't see why that would be needed. It seems like the players are good at market manipulations all that all by themselves :)

Selling PLEX for ISK on the market with no intention to buy them back would cost CCP future subscriptions and that would create a cost. It would also devalue PLEX and likely also hurt their PLEX for $$ sales. Buying PLEX for ISK however, will generate more revenue for CCP but it would be very unpopular among EVE players since it interferes with the in-game economy and creates a new ISK faucet and probably also inflation.

If anything, I think CCP might be buying PLEX for ISK to increase their revenue (but you didn't hear it from me). Most likely though, is that CCP reserves the right to intervene if an exceptional event occur in-game (for example if a few multi trillionaires wants to have some fun with their ISK before leaving the game).

Edit: As I see it, CCPs main tool to manipulate PLEX market in-game is their marketing of PLEX for $$ special offers (and perhaps also power of 2).
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#34 - 2013-01-05 12:12:01 UTC
It's very important to CCP for plex to stay within certain boundaries. Too high and people stop subbing (even if PLEXed, it's bad: people get "gimped" by having to give up on some useful alts, their experience worsens, they are less motivated to keep playing), both too low or too high and botting (in numbers or in revenue) gets greatly boosted. Too low and people stop buying PLEX to convert into ISK.

As of now CCP had two "weapons" at disposal: reusing RMT confiscated PLEX and ads campaigns (buy 6 PLEX offers and similar). PLEX is the one officially manipulated market. A smart investor can almost reliably know when to buy low and sell high.
Lexmana
#35 - 2013-01-05 12:28:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
It's very important to CCP for plex to stay within certain boundaries. Too high and people stop subbing (even if PLEXed, it's bad: people get "gimped" by having to give up on some useful alts, their experience worsens, they are less motivated to keep playing), both too low or too high and botting (in numbers or in revenue) gets greatly boosted. Too low and people stop buying PLEX to convert into ISK.

As of now CCP had two "weapons" at disposal: reusing RMT confiscated PLEX and ads campaigns (buy 6 PLEX offers and similar). PLEX is the one officially manipulated market. A smart investor can almost reliably know when to buy low and sell high.

I think their marketing of PLEX for $$ offers has more to do with opportunities for increasing revenue than trying to stabilise the in-game PLEX market. The two objectives just happens to converge. PLEX prices has been going up and I think it is because it is good business for CCP. Players that want's to PLEX their accounts just have to work harder (or be smarter) until that change.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#36 - 2013-01-05 13:07:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Lexmana wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
It's very important to CCP for plex to stay within certain boundaries. Too high and people stop subbing (even if PLEXed, it's bad: people get "gimped" by having to give up on some useful alts, their experience worsens, they are less motivated to keep playing), both too low or too high and botting (in numbers or in revenue) gets greatly boosted. Too low and people stop buying PLEX to convert into ISK.

As of now CCP had two "weapons" at disposal: reusing RMT confiscated PLEX and ads campaigns (buy 6 PLEX offers and similar). PLEX is the one officially manipulated market. A smart investor can almost reliably know when to buy low and sell high.

I think their marketing of PLEX for $$ offers has more to do with opportunities for increasing revenue than trying to stabilise the in-game PLEX market. The two objectives just happens to converge. PLEX prices has been going up and I think it is because it is good business for CCP. Players that want's to PLEX their accounts just have to work harder (or be smarter) until that change.


Actually, those "buy bulk PLEX" offers have been to drive PLEX value down...

Others, like the "pay Fanfest with PLEX" go against that but they were widely advertised as a 2013 feature in the past, so they have to deliver on it now, even if it goes against their main strategy.

Edit: another fascinating PLEX point of view, is their ability to act as potent ISK sink.
Making PLEXes rise in value makes more PLEX buyers ISK leave the game when they are converted in game time.
Now, imagine the effect of having bought a number of PLEXes at peak high price and now having to convert those in Fanfest tickets: more ISK used to buy them leaves the game.
Lexmana
#37 - 2013-01-05 13:44:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Actually, those "buy bulk PLEX" offers have been to drive PLEX value down...

Others, like the "pay Fanfest with PLEX" go against that but they were widely advertised as a 2013 feature in the past, so they have to deliver on it now, even if it goes against their main strategy.


Or they just saw an opportunity to sell a lot of PLEX while they were worth a lot of ISK on the market ...

But, yes I agree. The two objectives converge. High PLEX prices is also a good way to counter RMT. And if CCP really wanted to bring down in-game PLEX prices they could make much better PLEX for $$ offers.

Their main strategy? I remember something from last fanfest that they offered a graphics card for PLEX and they also said they wanted to offer more things for PLEX in the future. And now we have Fanfest tickets and wasn't there a PLEX fee for New Eden Open?.

I think there are two things going on here.

  • CCP wants to sell PLEX to players that spend the ISK (I guess on PvP mostly) and they are more likely to buy when PLEX is worth a lot of ISK in-game.

  • They also need to sink those PLEX but they are stockpiled on wealthy players that can't really sink all of it into game time. So they need more PLEX sinks targeted at wealthy players (such as graphics cards and fanfest tickets and monocles). This will drive in-game PLEX prices upwards

Quote:

Edit: another fascinating PLEX point of view, is their ability to act as potent ISK sink.
Making PLEXes rise in value makes more PLEX buyers ISK leave the game when they are converted in game time.
Now, imagine the effect of having bought a number of PLEXes at peak high price and now having to convert those in Fanfest tickets: more ISK used to buy them leaves the game.


Hmm, are you talking about transaction tax here because otherwise I can't really see how ISK leaves the game. The only thing removed when a PLEX is converted into a Fanfest Ticket is game time.
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
#38 - 2013-01-05 13:59:48 UTC
manipulation of numbers is a work of a devil

to cleanse your soul,you have to send 1 billion isk to me prontoEvil
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#39 - 2013-01-05 15:31:26 UTC
Meh... people are lazy... they just want to "power level" so they buy PLEX, sell them for ISK, buy a 60mil toon and get into the game without the time or effort otherwise required to start from "scratch"... or more to the point, at the "beginner level".

Welcome to the manifestation of the "entitlement culture" in EVE. Roll





"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#40 - 2013-01-05 15:33:50 UTC
Felicity Love wrote:
Meh... people are lazy... they just want to "power level" so they buy PLEX, sell them for ISK, buy a 60mil toon and get into the game without the time or effort otherwise required to start from "scratch"... or more to the point, at the "beginner level".

Welcome to the manifestation of the "entitlement culture" in EVE. Roll


This has always been possible.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016