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Teaching a pig to sing......

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Rodtrik
Aphex Industries
#61 - 2013-01-04 18:52:58 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:
Rodtrik wrote:
KrakizBad wrote:
Rodtrik wrote:
KrakizBad wrote:
links and words


I did not say argument never happened, simply that it has increased much more recently than it has in the past. One need only look at GD to see this. Volume wise, there seems to be far, far more.

More players = more posts. One would think that was obvious.


An interesting angle, but that makes that assumption that the majority of posts would be of a negative, persecution-type nature simply because there are more people.

More players != more vitriol

In fact it does not. You asserted that in the past, people just got along. I showed that this was in no way true. Then you said volume had increased. This is due to player count. For your latest argument to be true, your first argument would need to be correct. It wasn't.


As is your argument incorrect. Note:

"Years ago, Eve was a true community. Yes people bashed others and trolled etc, but no one truly persecuted due to play style."

I acknowledged that people did troll, bash, etc, etc. Convinient of you to ignore that. I believe the following is what confused you;

"We were all Eve players, pod pilots, and we were quite happy (at least those I interacted with, on this alt AND my main). "

Two things. People were indeed happy, otherwise they wouldn't play. They would simply quit. Yes they had grievances, but they still played as evidenced by their updated portraits. They stuck around. This does not mean Eve was ever "happy carebear land" as you seem to think was my meaning.

Also, i said with those I interacted. This does not mean my comment was meant to represent all old players, simply those who I knew. Otherwise, I would be falling into Jenn's bias error.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#62 - 2013-01-04 18:58:54 UTC
Rodtrik wrote:
wut

Very well, I concede that in your extremely limited experience of only those YOU interacted with, it is possible EVE was once happy get-along carebear land. Roll

Also if you think only people who enjoy this game play it, you might want to think again.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#63 - 2013-01-04 18:59:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Change is hard.
Change is scary.
Change is necessary.
Change is inevitable.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Aston Martin DB5
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#64 - 2013-01-04 19:00:42 UTC
I've heard planet side 2 is a pretty epic space mmo that is F2P.Big smile
Sidrat Flush
School of Applied Knowledge
#65 - 2013-01-04 19:07:16 UTC
The differences between industrial non combat people and the combatants has always been there and it led to alliances breaking up.

The higher post count may have something to do with the recent update. Its a pvp update which has magnified he destruction of ships to those in empire mining while AFK, or The New Order is on the right track and bringing more people to the other side of Eve - The meta game. Possibly the main reason bitter vets still subscribe.

Its time to stand up against the bad empire based CEO telling falsehoods about what new characters can accomplish and pushing them towards an in game experience of drudgery and loneliness keeping them in the shadow of ignorance for at nest their own profit at worse apathy towards all the experiences that Eve has to offer.
Karak Terrel
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#66 - 2013-01-04 19:14:20 UTC
Aston Martin DB5 wrote:
I've heard planet side 2 is a pretty epic space mmo that is F2P.Big smile


Well, do they have non consensual PvP? And if not, why isn't it dying?
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2013-01-04 19:16:52 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
How exactly does one play.....and then wind up playing the wrong game ?

Or like my cousin's fellow marines who i met at a party, complaining about having to be on ships and training in mud....if you don't like ships, water, mud etc, why in the high hells would you be a Marine?.


To quote the son of a friend of mine - "Because you guys are in all the video games."

I spent a good half hour laughing out loud over that. From what I understand, the recruiter told him to come back when he had "quit being a child." That's the sort of thing that bruises a 17 year old's ego. Twisted

@OP
No one cares, except the trolls, and they only care enough to troll you. Log out and go away.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#68 - 2013-01-04 19:17:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Karak Terrel wrote:
Aston Martin DB5 wrote:
I've heard planet side 2 is a pretty epic space mmo that is F2P.Big smile


Well, do they have non consensual PvP? And if not, why isn't it dying?

As far as I can tell that's all it has.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Karak Terrel
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#69 - 2013-01-04 19:21:46 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Karak Terrel wrote:
Aston Martin DB5 wrote:
I've heard planet side 2 is a pretty epic space mmo that is F2P.Big smile


Well, do they have non consensual PvP? And if not, why isn't it dying?

As far as I can tell that's all it has.


I actually meant consensual, but never mind. stupid me.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#70 - 2013-01-04 19:23:13 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

And yet LEGIONS of EVE players (most of whom never leave high sec lol) don't get that concept at all. They want the benefits of playing an MMO but rant against the things that make the game an MMO lol.


To be fair - and I say this as a former high sec carebear of 5 years or so - I don't think it's so much that they want benefits, but rather that they are "scared" of PvP. PvP in EVE happens very quickly and it's usually very one sided - especially when you don't know what you're doing. Therefore the average care-bear's experience with PvP has usually only been on the losing end, so he will avoid it at all costs.


That may be true of some, but there is an underlying current (in EVE, in all other such games, and in real life) of "welfare Queen" style entitlement. You can see it in a thread posted in the out of pod experience section about the new "Star Citizen" game being worked on, people are already asking for "benefits" damn near before any coding started lol.

Some people won't like pvp no matter what (and some people who do pvp are as much of the "Welfare Queen" mentality as anyone else, asking for changes to the game that would only serve to give them an edge in combat). it's not about pvp or not to pvp, it's about an attitude that exists everywhere ....but manifests itself most visibly in high sec, and on these forums from players who self-identify as high sec residents...

Quote:

Once in a while you get the odd one that wakes up like I did - like a lot of us did - and decides to learn PvP. Of course we never go back. But seeing carebears as a group trying to exploit others is not a fair comparison IMO.


I don't see "carebears" as a group doing anything, it most cases i fit the definition of a carebear. But there are people in this game (most of whom would be called carebears, some of whom are "elite pvp" types) who ARE trying to exploit others/ccp in short-sighted ways for their own benefit. The original poster of this thread is a clear example.
Staten Island
Diversity 101
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#71 - 2013-01-04 19:26:50 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Every MMO or multiplayer game that doesn't want to die changes the rules on a regular basis. If you want to play a game that always stays the same, you want to play offline single player games, so you can avoid any mandatory patches.


Honestly the most enduring games have rules that never change or at least change very slowly - chess comes to mind. MMO's while feeling the need to change frequently always seem to reach a point where they make one change too many and then jump the shark and failscade....
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#72 - 2013-01-04 19:27:06 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:


To quote the son of a friend of mine - "Because you guys are in all the video games."

I spent a good half hour laughing out loud over that. From what I understand, the recruiter told him to come back when he had "quit being a child." That's the sort of thing that bruises a 17 year old's ego. Twisted



I'm laughing so hard I'm almost crying right now just at the thought of thatlol, that's a good one (sounds like a good recruiter too, some of them will take anything with a pulse to meet quota).

It's the same in my field (Law Enforcement), you get all these people who think it's gun fights and glory, only to find out that the reality is crack heads and paperwork Lol
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
#73 - 2013-01-04 19:57:16 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


I don't see "carebears" as a group doing anything, it most cases i fit the definition of a carebear. But there are people in this game (most of whom would be called carebears, some of whom are "elite pvp" types) who ARE trying to exploit others/ccp in short-sighted ways for their own benefit. The original poster of this thread is a clear example.


Whoa there my little gunslinger - the original poster of this thread is me and could you explain clearly how I am a clear example of the 'type' of person you and your Marine friends and law enforcement buddies would probably like to blow away.
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#74 - 2013-01-04 20:57:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tah'ris Khlador
Zen Dad wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


I don't see "carebears" as a group doing anything, it most cases i fit the definition of a carebear. But there are people in this game (most of whom would be called carebears, some of whom are "elite pvp" types) who ARE trying to exploit others/ccp in short-sighted ways for their own benefit. The original poster of this thread is a clear example.


Whoa there my little gunslinger - the original poster of this thread is me and could you explain clearly how I am a clear example of the 'type' of person you and your Marine friends and law enforcement buddies would probably like to blow away.



Hi, Meet Jenn aSide. He has an opinion, you will hear it, and if you disagree with him, you are obviously wrong and also generally a slew of insults because they make his post bigger. And yes, I've forum-warriored with him before.

I don't know how he sees your OP as "I want to exploit EVE!!1" and not as the "I hate change!!1 Why are you destroying my game?" that it actually is. Arguing that they are practically the same thing is not valid either. You simply want EVE the way you imagine it, without change.

EDIT: And I'm not arguing that Jenn isn't allowed an opinion, before it gets taken THAT way, which it probably will as seen by a previous post in this thread.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#75 - 2013-01-04 21:31:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
I think we are all pretty clear on this being a stealth "I want my NPC AI dumbed down again" thread. The thread is just taking some odd tangents.

The particular change you appear to be upset about was due in large part to popular demand to make missions more challenging... so you are fighting an uphill battle. To be honest, like most other changes to basic systems in the game, there will be a great deal of wailing that everything is ruined at first, to be followed shortly thereafter by people accepting it as the status quo and developing the appropriate tactics to make the most of it.

It has happened many, many times before.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
#76 - 2013-01-04 23:09:18 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
I think we are all pretty clear on this being a stealth "I want my NPC AI dumbed down again" thread. The thread is just taking some odd tangents.

The particular change you appear to be upset about was due in large part to popular demand to make missions more challenging... so you are fighting an uphill battle. To be honest, like most other changes to basic systems in the game, there will be a great deal of wailing that everything is ruined at first, to be followed shortly thereafter by people accepting it as the status quo and developing the appropriate tactics to make the most of it.

It has happened many, many times before.
Jamyl Khanid
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2013-01-04 23:25:21 UTC
Bacon and bewbies,
Bacon and bewbies

Go together like Goonies and newbies.

The pig didn't get it either.