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NBSI Nullsec = Fail

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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#441 - 2013-01-08 13:34:09 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Go go Gadget forum warrior.

free PI and a couple of national ICE Ops, running a POS shouldn't cost you anything.

The trouble with you and all your pets is, you built an empire on the power of ISK, seen through the lense and dictated by the values of high sec. Your ISK backed empire depends on pubie scrubs like me to do your dirty work. Mine your Ice, Mine your low end minerals, build your trash modules, react your junk components. You don't want autonomy, you want the throne. Because at the end of the day you don't have the active members to do it all and keep you out of Jita.

You sound more and more like an RMTer every day. Ships and pods to fill them hold the power in EVE Null sec and you seem a little too obsessed with the ISK. To be fair, maybe you were taught Sov 101 by an RMTer but either way you stand to lose because as Madoff showed the world, all good scams come to an end.


ahahahahahaha

nationalized ice mining, good one

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#442 - 2013-01-08 13:34:40 UTC
also the whole "if you mine it yourself it's free"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#443 - 2013-01-08 13:35:32 UTC
like I literally can't tell you what's wrong with your post without crossing the line into "trolling"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#444 - 2013-01-08 13:36:22 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Or we could get CCP to fix the game mechanics so nullsec is a preferrable place to go to for people who aren't complete sissies.


It already is.

There are, as I understand it, calls to make it easier and thus more amenable to these "sissies". But isn't that the trend with all games nowadays?

Maybe it's true that folks just aren't as tough as they used to be.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#445 - 2013-01-08 13:37:56 UTC
Andski wrote:
like I literally can't tell you what's wrong with your post without crossing the line into "trolling"

I think it can be summarized pretty easily: Everything.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#446 - 2013-01-08 13:38:19 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Or we could get CCP to fix the game mechanics so nullsec is a preferrable place to go to for people who aren't complete sissies.


It already is.

There are, as I understand it, calls to make it easier and thus more amenable to these "sissies". But isn't that the trend with all games nowadays?

Maybe it's true that folks just aren't as tough as they used to be.


yes, that's why CCP gave you hisec folks revamped exhumers, a simplified aggression system, simplified missions and an otherwise easy mode game

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#447 - 2013-01-08 13:39:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Malphilos wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Or we could get CCP to fix the game mechanics so nullsec is a preferrable place to go to for people who aren't complete sissies.

It already is.

Oh really? Pray tell, how is it the game mechanics make nullsec the preferrable place to go for people who aren't complete sissies?

A short bulletpoint list of reasons will suffice.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#448 - 2013-01-08 13:41:45 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Skydell wrote:
As for low and high being easier to manufacture in, the problem is what? Run it in Low and high that is in your beacon range and call it a win?

Or we could get CCP to fix the game mechanics so nullsec is a preferrable place to go to for people who aren't complete sissies.

Skydell wrote:
Running Industrial out of stations eliminates all the cumbersome management, so?

It makes no sense for nullsec to be completely incapable of being built up to the point where we can handily compete with f.ex hisec, and as such poach back our industrial characters back into nullsec.

Skydell wrote:
Do it that way! The trouble is again, you don't have the mining members base, willing to do it cheaper than high sec, willing to make the cumbersome more? Profitable! You guys see everything from a profit stand point.

Why should they make it cheaper than hisec, when it's more risk, more work and higher cost?


Don't talk so loose.

I'm at work or in bed, some guy hot drops my POS and shuts down 2 months of Industry. Me not wanting to do that makes me a sissy? What are you smoking?

You guys are restricted by your own driven goals. Make moar ISK. Though does protest too much. Go jump another load of large projectiles to Null because clearly it isn't worth it to do Industrial in your third world Dotlan empire.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#449 - 2013-01-08 13:46:00 UTC
Skydell wrote:
I'm at work or in bed, some guy hot drops my POS and shuts down 2 months of Industry. Me not wanting to do that makes me a sissy? What are you smoking?

You do realize that you can't "hotdrop" a POS, unless you're an incompetent POS owner who doesn't stront his tower. There's a reinforcement stage where your alliance would help in defending it (unless, of course, you were bad at eve and didn't stront it to the alliance's strongest timezone.

Skydell wrote:
You guys are restricted by your own driven goals. Make moar ISK. Though does protest too much. Go jump another load of large projectiles to Null because clearly it isn't worth it to do Industrial in your third world Dotlan empire.

What we say: let us be more independent of hisec
What skydell reads: we want to make more isk

Amazing.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#450 - 2013-01-08 13:52:30 UTC
Andski wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Or we could get CCP to fix the game mechanics so nullsec is a preferrable place to go to for people who aren't complete sissies.


It already is.

There are, as I understand it, calls to make it easier and thus more amenable to these "sissies". But isn't that the trend with all games nowadays?

Maybe it's true that folks just aren't as tough as they used to be.


yes, that's why CCP gave you hisec folks revamped exhumers, a simplified aggression system, simplified missions and an otherwise easy mode game


Gave High Sec folks a revamped Exhumer?

I guess when you hit null the exhumer reverts to its old trashy stats.

Cry moar, ISK mongerer.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#451 - 2013-01-08 14:01:57 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Setting aside the classic GD propaganda style quoting you just used
What? Quoting what you're responding to counts as "propaganda" now? Humour. Lol

Quote:
PI is passive
Irrelevant. The products it creates are still not free.

Quote:
Also you are doing the exact same thing he did. Seeing your success strictly from your wallet.
Seeing as how I'm not looking at success at all, no. I'm looking at fundamental misunderstanding of economics and the horribly fallacious argument this generates.

Quote:
As for low and high being easier to manufacture in, the problem is what?
The problem is that it reduces the draw and usefulness of null for no good reason. It has nothing to do with member base and everything to do with mechanics: it cannot be done cheaper or be less cumbersome than in highsec -- the mechanics simply forbid it. Just because you keep miscalculating things doesn't mean that correcting you is to only look at profits. Quite the opposite: it means that not only are you overly focusing on profits; you're also doing it wrong!
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#452 - 2013-01-08 14:06:53 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Setting aside the classic GD propaganda style quoting you just used
What? Quoting what you're responding to counts as "propaganda" now? Humour. Lol

Quote:
PI is passive
Irrelevant. The products it creates are still not free.

Quote:
Also you are doing the exact same thing he did. Seeing your success strictly from your wallet.
Seeing as how I'm not looking at success at all, no. I'm looking at fundamental misunderstanding of economics and the horribly fallacious argument this generates.

Quote:
As for low and high being easier to manufacture in, the problem is what?
The problem is that it reduces the draw and usefulness of null for no good reason. It has nothing to do with member base and everything to do with mechanics: it cannot be done cheaper or be less cumbersome than in highsec -- the mechanics simply forbid it. Just because you keep miscalculating things doesn't mean that correcting you is to only look at profits. Quite the opposite: it means that not only are you overly focusing on profits; you're also doing it wrong!


Quoting me is not Propaganda. Taking out of context, hacking out all valid points and attacking the vague points is propaganda, spin and usually aimed not at discussion but to discredit someone for no clear reason.

You and yours continue to play EVE from a very strict ISK accumulation point of view and you will always be restricted by that value. You don't want to invest the time in your space because it not ISK sensible to do so. If that Sov is to you is an ISK faucet, you got what you deserve.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#453 - 2013-01-08 14:06:57 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Andski wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Or we could get CCP to fix the game mechanics so nullsec is a preferrable place to go to for people who aren't complete sissies.


It already is.

There are, as I understand it, calls to make it easier and thus more amenable to these "sissies". But isn't that the trend with all games nowadays?

Maybe it's true that folks just aren't as tough as they used to be.


yes, that's why CCP gave you hisec folks revamped exhumers, a simplified aggression system, simplified missions and an otherwise easy mode game


Gave High Sec folks a revamped Exhumer?

I guess when you hit null the exhumer reverts to its old trashy stats.

Cry moar, ISK mongerer.

Just how far down the troll hole are you going to dig yourself? Inquiring minds wants to know.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#454 - 2013-01-08 14:10:42 UTC
Skydell wrote:
You don't want to invest the time in your space because it not ISK sensible to do so.

One system, located 2 jumps out of jita, can outperform a whole region in nullsec. It isn't feasible to refine and manufacture in the same station (well, it is possible, but 9 slots is a bit on the low side, when it's 18% of the equivalent station in hisec, and 1.64% of the equivalent system in hisec).

But please, do continue to harp on and on about how it's all about the isk.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#455 - 2013-01-08 14:10:52 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Or we could get CCP to fix the game mechanics so nullsec is a preferrable place to go to for people who aren't complete sissies.


It already is.


So if we straight out swapped the stats for hi-sec NPC stations and 0.0 sov stations, that would be A-OK with you?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#456 - 2013-01-08 14:12:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Skydell wrote:
Quoting me is not Propaganda.
Oh, I don't know...

Quote:
Taking out of context, hacking out all valid points and attacking the vague points is propaganda
Good thing that I'm not doing that then, and that I'm instead leaving out the irrelevant nonsense and keeping the (incorrect) points that you base your (equally incorrect) argument on.

Quote:
You don't want to invest the time in your space because it not ISK sensible to do so.
So you agree then: the current industry mechanisms for sov space are as fundamentally broken as missions would be of it cost you money to run them (and that's before we even get into the utterly idiotic design of having player-run space provide less player freedom than NPC-run space). Oh, and no, sov is not an ISK faucet. Quite the opposite, in fact.

You still don't get it. You still focus on this poorly calculated notion you have of profits. It's about production capacity and capability, which is needed to have more ships to throw at the enemy, and which is so poorly developed that it is better in every single way to produce everything you can a jump or two away from Jita and then burn freighter fuel to get it to the end user, rather than to produce it locally. These wares as not made to profit from: they are made to be destroyed.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#457 - 2013-01-08 14:16:22 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Skydell wrote:
You don't want to invest the time in your space because it not ISK sensible to do so.

One system, located 2 jumps out of jita, can outperform a whole region in nullsec. It isn't feasible to refine and manufacture in the same station (well, it is possible, but 9 slots is a bit on the low side, when it's 18% of the equivalent station in hisec, and 1.64% of the equivalent system in hisec).

But please, do continue to harp on and on about how it's all about the isk.


Any time you guys feel it is too much of a burden to run your DotLan empire, feel free to pack it up and move to High Sec.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#458 - 2013-01-08 14:19:30 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Any time you guys feel it is too much of a burden to run your DotLan empire, feel free to pack it up and move to High Sec.

Nah, I think we'll just continue importing from hisec, and leave nullsec a complete wasteland outside of fleet fights. I'm sure CCP agrees that this, instead of having a bustling nullsec where non-sissies can thrive, is the optimal situation for eve as a whole.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#459 - 2013-01-08 14:19:59 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Any time you guys feel it is too much of a burden to run your DotLan empire, feel free to pack it up and move to High Sec.
So what you're saying is that you're ok with the vast majority of space being worthless?
Would you care to one-up that? Perhaps claim that it's even good for the game that all those systems, and all the mechanics that go with them, are meaningless appendages that just sit there?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#460 - 2013-01-08 14:26:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Tippia wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Quoting me is not Propaganda.
Oh, I don't know...

Quote:
Taking out of context, hacking out all valid points and attacking the vague points is propaganda
Good thing that I'm not doing that then, and that I'm instead leaving out the irrelevant nonsense and keeping the (incorrect) points that you base your (equally incorrect) argument on.

Quote:
You don't want to invest the time in your space because it not ISK sensible to do so.
So you agree then: the current industry mechanisms for sov space are as fundamentally broken as missions would be of it cost you money to run them (and that's before we even get into the utterly idiotic design of having player-run space provide less player freedom than NPC-run space). Oh, and no, sov is not an ISK faucet. Quite the opposite, in fact.

You still don't get it. You still focus on this poorly calculated notion you have of profits. It's about production capacity and capability, which is needed to have more ships to throw at the enemy, and which is so poorly developed that it is better in every single way to produce everything you can a jump or two away from Jita and then burn freighter fuel to get it to the end user, rather than to produce it locally. These ware as not made to profit from: they are made to be destroyed.


Interesting point. Let's imagine missions worked like anoms in 0.0

First you'd have to fight off all the other missioners that want access to the agent. Only the winning alliance gets to speak to the agent; everyone else gets nothing.

Then you'd have to pay about 2 billion ISK in structures, which require a freighter (they won't fit in JFs) to move into place for the agent to live in.

Then you'd have grind up the level of missions that the agent offered, starting from level 1.

Once you've got the agent up to level 4 missions, you have to keep grinding them, or the missions will start to degrade down, at a rate approximately 1 level per day.

The agent demands a hundred million ISK a week in kickbacks just to keep talking to you. If you miss a payment, he leaves and you have to entice him back and grind the mission level back up again from scratch.

At any time, a stronger group might turn up, destroy your structures, and claim the agent for themselves.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016