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NBSI Nullsec = Fail

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Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#381 - 2013-01-08 04:14:58 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Skydell wrote:

Provi has some things going for it. It is close to High Sec, it has what the average HS player is looking for in Null. It has through the hard work of CVA and her various blues built a large network of outposts. It benefits from NRDS.
How?


Neutral Docking fees in Provi are what makes ISK. Provi Holders use their outposts and the trust that took 10 years to gain to their benefit.

U'K tried to make Provi NRDS as well, toward the end of their stay in that area but they didn't have the cred or reputation for being NRDS and it really never took off. People see CVA as a true NRDS alliance. They don't see them as Mommy, someone who will hold their hand when hostiles come. They do know if they see a CVA ship on overview, they aren't going to be shot at just because.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#382 - 2013-01-08 04:18:27 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Provi has some things going for it. It is close to High Sec, it has what the average HS player is looking for in Null. It has through the hard work of CVA and her various blues built a large network of outposts. It benefits from NRDS.


ProviBlock exists as an NRDS entity only because Providence is not worth taking or even holding.

When the Sov Upgrade system was introduced and every system in Provi got sanctums, ProviBlock was swiftly and unceremoniously kicked from their space.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#383 - 2013-01-08 04:26:04 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Provi has some things going for it. It is close to High Sec, it has what the average HS player is looking for in Null. It has through the hard work of CVA and her various blues built a large network of outposts. It benefits from NRDS.


ProviBlock exists as an NRDS entity only because Providence is not worth taking or even holding.

When the Sov Upgrade system was introduced and every system in Provi got sanctums, ProviBlock was swiftly and unceremoniously kicked from their space.


I don't agree.

Nobody was running Sanctums in Provi after CVA was pushed out. The Sov Indes levels never got high enough for them to kick in. The people who took Sov from CVA and Co did so on a grudge and turned Provi in to a low level, pirate waste land where they could play king of the hill by sitting in their outposts all day, never undocking unless they had someone to shoot at.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#384 - 2013-01-08 04:42:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Skydell wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Skydell wrote:

Provi has some things going for it. It is close to High Sec, it has what the average HS player is looking for in Null. It has through the hard work of CVA and her various blues built a large network of outposts. It benefits from NRDS.
How?


Neutral Docking fees in Provi are what makes ISK. Provi Holders use their outposts and the trust that took 10 years to gain to their benefit.
10 years and 1 trillion+ isk for a 10k docking fee
that is how CVA benefits from NRDS
Skydell wrote:
U'K tried to make Provi NRDS as well, toward the end of their stay in that area but they didn't have the cred or reputation for being NRDS and it really never took off.

No they didn't. They doled out space to a series of alliances for the purpose of being -A-'s kill farm and left it up to them to set RoE and standings however they wished (I think Star Fraction was the only one who attempted it). Quickly when pressure was applied though (when Co2 went rogue and began taking over the other "New Provis") they became a unified NBSI bloc.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#385 - 2013-01-08 04:48:26 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Skydell wrote:

Provi has some things going for it. It is close to High Sec, it has what the average HS player is looking for in Null. It has through the hard work of CVA and her various blues built a large network of outposts. It benefits from NRDS.
How?


Neutral Docking fees in Provi are what makes ISK. Provi Holders use their outposts and the trust that took 10 years to gain to their benefit.
10 years and 1 trillion+ isk for a 10k docking fee
that is how CVA benefits from NRDS


They took what most call 'sucky space' and they made something out of it. They aren't in EVE to be the God Alliance. They don't want to rule the universe. They are the Lords of Provi and they made Provi good, using the tools Provi had at its disposal. They were emergent. Too bad there werent more like them. Taking what EVE is, not trying to make it what they want it to be.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#386 - 2013-01-08 04:54:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Sov holders govern based on the game mechanics and which policies are most effective under them.

The game mechanics make NRDS and in-house industry an unviable alliance platform, which is why all the old NRDS alliances (except CVA) are dead.

If this were not true, selection of the fittest would mean that NRDS alliances would be the rulers of 0.0.


Then null players should stop crying about no industry in null when their play styles kill it.

How does that saying go? If your not willing to fight for something, you dont deserve to keep or have it in the first place.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#387 - 2013-01-08 04:55:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Asuka Solo wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Sov holders govern based on the game mechanics and which policies are most effective under them.

The game mechanics make NRDS and in-house industry an unviable alliance platform, which is why all the old NRDS alliances (except CVA) are dead.

If this were not true, selection of the fittest would mean that NRDS alliances would be the rulers of 0.0.


Then null players should stop crying about no industry in null when their play styles kill it.

man this is a stupid post, hardcoded game mechanics aren't effected by alliance standings hth

readers, don't be like this guy
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#388 - 2013-01-08 04:56:35 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Too bad there werent more like them

There were more of them, the others just happened to live in space that NBSI alliances actually wanted and are now dead.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#389 - 2013-01-08 04:57:20 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Sov holders govern based on the game mechanics and which policies are most effective under them.

The game mechanics make NRDS and in-house industry an unviable alliance platform, which is why all the old NRDS alliances (except CVA) are dead.

If this were not true, selection of the fittest would mean that NRDS alliances would be the rulers of 0.0.


Then null players should stop crying about no industry in null when their play styles kill it.

How does that saying go? If your not willing to fight for something, you dont deserve to keep or have it in the first place.

"I don't know anything about X, but I'll post my opinion anyway."

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#390 - 2013-01-08 05:05:14 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Too bad there werent more like them

There were more of them, the others just happened to live in space that NBSI alliances actually wanted and are now dead.


Not true either.

Goons don't want the Drone regions. They just want someone to fight with. -A- never wanted Provi either. Burning it was something to pass the time. That is a balance issue that EVE has suffered from for 10 years and the nature of single battles dictating the fragile incomes available in most of Null being a war breaker. Another issue that has come up and has been discussed in to the ground. I doubt NBSI or NRDS will change those failings of EVE. It's mechanical and CCP have no solution.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#391 - 2013-01-08 05:08:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Skydell wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Too bad there werent more like them

There were more of them, the others just happened to live in space that NBSI alliances actually wanted and are now dead.

Not true either.
Skydell must think F0undation is still in hiding or something lol
what's untrue is claiming things like "too bad CVA was the only NRDS alliance out there, because NRDS isn't a completely unviable alliance platform"
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#392 - 2013-01-08 05:17:00 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Too bad there werent more like them

There were more of them, the others just happened to live in space that NBSI alliances actually wanted and are now dead.

Not true either.
Skydell must think F0undation is still in hiding or something lol
what's untrue is claiming things like "too bad CVA was the only NRDS alliance out there, because NRDS isn't a completely unviable alliance platform"


I think the real aspect of this is neither NBSI or NRDS. It's a matter of being too pig headed to give someone credit where it is due.
CVA made Provi viable using NRDS and you seem unwilling to admit that.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#393 - 2013-01-08 05:19:32 UTC
Your alliance model is not viable if you fold up and evacuate to lowsec after you lose one or two systems, or if you lose a few "serious" fleets.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#394 - 2013-01-08 05:21:32 UTC
Skydell wrote:

I think the real aspect of this is neither NBSI or NRDS. It's a matter of being too pig headed to give someone credit where it is due.
CVA made Provi viable using NRDS and you seem unwilling to admit that.

that's like saying CVA eventually made it up a flight of stairs in a wheelchair therefore wheelchairs and legs are equally valid stairclimbing solutions.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#395 - 2013-01-08 05:23:15 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Skydell wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Too bad there werent more like them

There were more of them, the others just happened to live in space that NBSI alliances actually wanted and are now dead.


Not true either.


So, where are these other "NRDS alliances"?

ISS lived in Catch some years back. What happened to it? Got stomped right out of Catch and into oblivion.


There's a reason why the only NRDS space is literally the worst region in EVE. Nobody's making any effort at competing to own it.

While you may disagree on "why" -A- stomped CVA out of Provi, you can't deny that -A- was able to do it without major inconvenience or effort (apart from the game mechanically enforced dickpunching that is Dominion Sov), which shows that when someone does make an effort to compete for ownership of Provi, CVA loses... badly*.

*To give credit where credit is due, they don't stay docked and out of the fight while things burn around them, so they're better than -A-

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#396 - 2013-01-08 05:35:44 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
Your alliance model is not viable if you fold up and evacuate to lowsec after you lose one or two systems, or if you lose a few "serious" fleets.


That is tied to what I said about the fragile income of EVE and the means of war.

CVA lost the key battles. The battles that determined if they could confront another alliance and defeat them. If they lost once on neutral ground, they were going to lose in their own space as well and they would continue to lose until they stopped fighting back. So they chose to do what most alliances chose to do, both NRDS and NBSI alliances chose to do. Save their assets and evac. It's the problem with blob trumping everything. You are only as resilient as the numbers you have available and superior numbers will always beat you.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#397 - 2013-01-08 05:37:35 UTC
Diablo Ex wrote:
There is nothing at all wrong with the game mechanics, the problem in Nullsec is the way that Sov Holders govern. There would be more folks moving into Nullsec if the Sov Holders would simply set NRDS rules in their space. It worked before with great success, and there are many old veterans that remember that time. Just let neutrals come and go as long as they mind their own business. Not everybody wants to be enslaved to the narcissistic petty dictators who are currently in charge.


CCP just needs to give HUGE billboards for the gates into their systems that simply say "trespassers will be shot".

NBSI is a policy based upon that and there's nothing wrong with such a policy.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#398 - 2013-01-08 06:46:37 UTC
Skydell wrote:

CVA lost the key battles. The battles that determined if they could confront another alliance and defeat them. If they lost once on neutral ground, they were going to lose in their own space as well and they would continue to lose until they stopped fighting back. So they chose to do what most alliances chose to do, both NRDS and NBSI alliances chose to do. Save their assets and evac. It's the problem with blob trumping everything. You are only as resilient as the numbers you have available and superior numbers will always beat you.

You can kill blobs of people and stop invasions with less players, it's just not easily done. It's a tall task for an alliance that can barely sustain itself in peacetime, and cannot survive the isk or morale loss of a single fleet against larger numbers. If there was a real reason to hold Providence, CVA wouldn't give up so easily. And the packs of friendly neutrals who lived there and enjoyed their space would join them in fighting back any hostile invaders.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#399 - 2013-01-08 06:56:20 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
Skydell wrote:

CVA lost the key battles. The battles that determined if they could confront another alliance and defeat them. If they lost once on neutral ground, they were going to lose in their own space as well and they would continue to lose until they stopped fighting back. So they chose to do what most alliances chose to do, both NRDS and NBSI alliances chose to do. Save their assets and evac. It's the problem with blob trumping everything. You are only as resilient as the numbers you have available and superior numbers will always beat you.

You can kill blobs of people and stop invasions with less players, it's just not easily done. It's a tall task for an alliance that can barely sustain itself in peacetime, and cannot survive the isk or morale loss of a single fleet against larger numbers. If there was a real reason to hold Providence, CVA wouldn't give up so easily. And the packs of friendly neutrals who lived there and enjoyed their space would join them in fighting back any hostile invaders.


EVE history dictates otherwise. Alliances that lost the opening battles where they put their best on the line, always lose the war.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#400 - 2013-01-08 06:58:05 UTC
example: red alliance being pushed into one station then dying