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Idea to perhaps get more people involved in PvP.

Author
Ginger Barbarella
#41 - 2013-01-03 14:36:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ginger Barbarella
Solstice Project wrote:
*lol* *facepalm*

The biggest issue seem to be idiots in the noobcorps who plant stupid thoughts
into the minds of the noobs. Like ... mine to make isk. Run missions to make isk.
You'll get blown up in lowsec as soon as you enter.

You want to teach noobs early on ? Then get rid of the terrorists ruining them
and instead put *dedicated EvE players* there, who show them the ropes.

Also: PvP is not an acronym for combat, noob. Combat is a subsection of PvP !


Said the king of high-sec noob killing... Roll

The "risk v reward" thing is complete and utter BS. If someone doesn't WANT to peeveepee, they won't unless driven into it (sound familiar), and let's face it: the "reward" in peeveepee is more often than not less than it takes to fit a ship, let alone buy new ones. That's why all these big, bad peeveepee'ers have high sec alts to generate their income IN HIGH SEC. The risk v reward thing is a joke.

If people WANT to get into peeveepee, they will. No amount of forum trolling by the Big Bads will change that; no amount of proclamations of null sec being empty (or not being empty) will change that; no amount of flowery, shiny corp advertisements from low and null-sec corps (and their egomaniacal FCs) will change that. There will always be people who demand this game be played THEIR way, there will always be people whose idea of fun is to gate came a low-sec entry point for hours on end, and there will always be people who prefer 10-one odds against a noobship to make them feel like their family jewels are the biggest around. EveO tends to breed these types (like the Big Bad noted above).

So let's cut the holier-than-thou prognostications of high sec podders who spend all their time, main or alt, in high sec. You want training: go to Agony Unleashed for their classes; waste your time in Eve Uni if you like the blob mentality. When you're done with Agony's top three classes, fit some frigates and dessies cheap, go to low, and pick some fights. Or join factional warfare (FW); I'd suggest Minmatar, but whatever floats your boat. You'll die. A lot. maybe war dec some loser in his own corp that ganks ships in high sec (or some other loser like James898834234). Just go do it.

*IF* you want to. Play your game. Don't play THEIR game.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
Somethin Awfull Forums
#42 - 2013-01-03 14:37:24 UTC
It isn't an issue of fear.
I can afford to lose T1 cruisers 5 minutes apart for the next 6 months. Why would I do that? Go on test server, watch the mindless repeat cycle of build it, blow it up. Adding a real time sink to it doesn't make it "scary" it makes it less appealing. There isn't that much appealing about going on test server and watch 5000 ships turn to wreck. Doing it here with a time sink is going to be better?

Fear is not part of the problem. Pointless PvP is.

R.I.P. Vile Rat

Roime
Shiva Furnace
#43 - 2013-01-03 14:39:05 UTC
I've never understood people who play an MMO but don't want to play against other players.

Games are just more fun with and against human opponents. It's always been like that, from the ancient times when first games were invented to today, where games are so wonderfully complex and deep that they can be called virtual universes.

I like my universes full of humans.

NPC starter corps are indeed in need of a revamp. Out with the evernoobs, in with tutors. Currently they are the main cause of new players quitting. EVE needs a new sect of ISDs, volunteers who provide real player-driven content in starter corps, moderate the corp chat and give correct guidance to noobs.

Meanwhile, best I can think of is starting a Newbro program in my corp :)

.

Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#44 - 2013-01-03 14:42:48 UTC
Instance the NPE and allow for new players to "break the ice" when it comes to PVP in Eve. Doing so would allow new players to fight against other new players in a semi-even field. It would also allow new players to get use to the idea of low and npc null at an early stage, without the fear of players 10x their age camping the gates. With it being instanced it would allow you to reduce the gear up ability without having a direct negative impact on Eve as a whole. As well as give CCP more freedom in scripting tutorials due to its limited effect.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden

Agwass Pewtry
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2013-01-03 14:43:48 UTC
Ioci wrote:
It isn't an issue of fear.
I can afford to lose T1 cruisers 5 minutes apart for the next 6 months. Why would I do that? Go on test server, watch the mindless repeat cycle of build it, blow it up. Adding a real time sink to it doesn't make it "scary" it makes it less appealing. There isn't that much appealing about going on test server and watch 5000 ships turn to wreck. Doing it here with a time sink is going to be better?

Fear is not part of the problem. Pointless PvP is.


It is fear. I have not gone forward with a plan to PvP because I know I will lose a ship (but I'm not the problem, I am a noob and know I need to develop skills to do it).

50k users is something I see often on the server. I know a few players whom never read the forums (or do any research in general which I cannot figure out). That leaves a whole slew of the population depending on the game for information and guidance. There is nothing in the game but people telling you that you will indeed be ganked, if it was not fear then more would jump into the PvP pool and that part of the population would grow. But as is it is not. Because of fear by what is told, heck it's all I have been told in the game.

Human psychology at work. Don't enter the dark ally as there are bad people there that want to send you home in an ambulance. Most assuredly fear.
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2013-01-03 14:56:37 UTC
Agwass Pewtry wrote:
Hello fellow players.

I was sitting around here thinking how much the PvP side of the game does indeed interest me. I have been reading much about the game via the forums (lurker) and the web. I notice much discussion about getting more people interested in Null/Low sec.

I think that the problem relates to real life and past gaming habits. When I think about going to Low/Null I relate it to buying a brand new car and taking it down a dark ally where I know I will lose it and it will be blown up. The risk is high.

Then with other games, you either make a name for yourself in PvP or you don't do it. In Eve the choices are many, do as you wish with very few limits. This strikes fear into a new played when they look into the wallet and realize they have nothing, know no one and have nothing to prove anyways. The incentive is very low to engage in a high risk activity.

Then it hit me, ease the fears of what is going to happen before it happens. Develop in game a PvP tutorial and give the new player no risk ships (only to be used in PvP). Fit these ships, auto warp these ships to Low sec and walk the player through the paces. 5 ships maybe? Make available cheap ship "packs" that new players can get for cheap. No insurance (uninsurable) and prefit these ships. Low risk.

Sure, the vets may not like the idea, but if the idea is to get more people involved in PvP. Change what has been taught in RL and reset the gamers mind. It's ok to lose a ship, teach that early and you have people whom are not afraid to PvP. There will be those that won't bite, but there will be those whom do and it can change the game in a big way.


ISKs arent issue here.
Everyone can afford to buy and loose T1 frig, cruiser or BC.
Fear is the issue.

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.

Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#47 - 2013-01-03 15:08:37 UTC
Here's a reason why I choose my PVP opponents, they are willingly engaging me, so no hard feelings.
you PVP with some and they lose it now becomes a personal grudge and they will stalk you to the ends of the EVE universe.

As most carebears living in hi sec they spend lots more time carebearing it up and don't want someone with a personal vendetta ruining that.

As it is now look at all the threads about grief play interrupting carebear's hi sec lives
Why should a carebear believe that once a PVP match is over it's over, so best just to avoid that in the first place is what crosses the mind.

Some carebear's will never combat PVP some would but in the end it's just too bad there are players who go nuts if they lose and make it personal.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#48 - 2013-01-03 15:36:19 UTC
Ioci wrote:
It isn't an issue of fear.
I can afford to lose T1 cruisers 5 minutes apart for the next 6 months. Why would I do that? Go on test server, watch the mindless repeat cycle of build it, blow it up. Adding a real time sink to it doesn't make it "scary" it makes it less appealing. There isn't that much appealing about going on test server and watch 5000 ships turn to wreck. Doing it here with a time sink is going to be better?

Fear is not part of the problem. Pointless PvP is.


+1 for this

The major problem for solo/small gang pilots not willing to be more involved in pvp, when those are willing to try pvp, it's because the loss hit in terms of effort required to cover the loss are way to meaningful for the average pilot.

Doesn't matter if I'm right or not, all it will matter as long as this discussion will continue we'll see "inflation/deflation" arguments show up, how it's easy to make billions in high sec (yet to be proven related to normal player gaming time= +/- 2/3 hrs).
We'll read again "risk averse" spits and usual yadaya and in the end nothing will change for better for the regular player.

Someone willing to spend just a couple hours doing stuff including try to pvp the hit is even higher, it's a much better gaming experience to stay in high sec and play trading game at the station while training skills, than undock with his ratting ship and kill rabbits for about 25/30M/H.
This player with a 60/70M toon will have to grind rabbits continuously for about 20hours (with a bit of luck maybe 15) to pay with in game currency the loss of his pod, his T2 hull+fit, ammo and ship insurance praying he didn't forgot to pvp in his implanted clone.

But this of course is a myth, everyone knows it and if they don't pvp it's just because they're afraid of loosing internet space pixels.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Peter Powers
Terrorists of Dimensions
#49 - 2013-01-03 15:49:15 UTC
i don't get the idea.

you want noobs to actually be send to lowsec to get killed?

you realize one of the main reasons that we kill noobs in lowsec is to teach them not to come there before they can fly anything proper?

3rdPartyEve.net - your catalogue for 3rd party applications

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#50 - 2013-01-03 15:49:19 UTC
Roime wrote:
Games are just more fun with and against human opponents. It's always been like that, from the ancient times when first games were invented to today, where games are so wonderfully complex and deep that they can be called virtual universes.

I like my universes full of humans.



I have to tell you a couple bad news about Eve, or at least your preception.

1st it's not a non consensual pvp game (high sec/low sec)

2nd at some point you'll need an alt, be it for cyno or whatever, in the end you'll need an alt.

3rd multibox (some playing up to over 25 char in the same system at the same time)

So and again, I'm sorry to tell you you're playing the wrong game but you can choose to ignore the points above.
(no personal attack or offense, just easy to verify joke arguments to counter yours)

Blink

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#51 - 2013-01-03 15:54:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Karrl Tian
Remove CONCORD.

Peter Powers wrote:


you realize one of the main reasons that we kill noobs in lowsec is to teach them not to come there before they can fly anything proper?


No, we kill them so they learn how to use a D-scan.
PalkAn4ik
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2013-01-03 16:02:38 UTC
Roime wrote:
I've never understood people who play an MMO but don't want to play against other players.

Games are just more fun with and against human opponents. It's always been like that, from the ancient times when first games were invented to today, where games are so wonderfully complex and deep that they can be called virtual universes.

I like my universes full of humans.

NPC starter corps are indeed in need of a revamp. Out with the evernoobs, in with tutors. Currently they are the main cause of new players quitting. EVE needs a new sect of ISDs, volunteers who provide real player-driven content in starter corps, moderate the corp chat and give correct guidance to noobs.

Meanwhile, best I can think of is starting a Newbro program in my corp :)



Some times the only thing more fun than playing "against" humans is to play "with" them.
Ginger Barbarella
#53 - 2013-01-03 16:11:47 UTC
Karrl Tian wrote:
Remove CONCORD.

Peter Powers wrote:


you realize one of the main reasons that we kill noobs in lowsec is to teach them not to come there before they can fly anything proper?


No, we kill them so they learn how to use a D-scan.


No, you kill them because it's EASY. As in peeveepee'ers love their EASY BUTTON just like high sec miners like their easy button (according to peeveepee'ers).

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#54 - 2013-01-03 16:15:16 UTC
Agwass Pewtry wrote:


Then it hit me, ease the fears of what is going to happen before it happens. Develop in game a PvP tutorial and give the new player no risk ships (only to be used in PvP). Fit these ships, auto warp these ships to Low sec and walk the player through the paces. 5 ships maybe? Make available cheap ship "packs" that new players can get for cheap. No insurance (uninsurable) and prefit these ships. Low risk.



Through the paces how? Here's what I imagine:

A new player picks a "pvp class" like...How to Die 101. He is given a dual tanked navatis with mixed weapons and a mining lazer. Instead of an undock button he gets a insta-fun button and is put at a random point in Rancer. A big "WOOOP WOOOP you're about to die" warning goes off as soon as the guy moves and when destroyed an automated "GF o7 I'll try better next time" message is typed in local. Pod destruction will magically teleport them back to their station.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#55 - 2013-01-03 16:37:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Inxentas Ultramar
Fear is not the issue. The issue is reason: there is simply no reason to PVP for a newbie other then learning to PVP in the first place. Older players might have incentives to pvp such as the defense of their space or harming an enemies military or economic power. What reason does a newbie have apart from learning the ropes? What reason does he have to shoot at your ship?

Absolutely ZERO reason, apart from "fun", and I don't consider a 5 second fight to be fun enough to face the hassle of buying and fitting up a new ship. As soon as I've done that I'm like screw it, I just bought this thing, I'm gonna enjoy it for a while instead of throwing it to the wolves for no particular reason, and no pvp actually happens. It's not meaningfull, and could just as well not have happened.

The rate at which you gain ships and lose them is totally out of whack, it just doesn't make sense to start a fight in this game unless you know you might have a good chance to win. Guess what? Newbies know they will almost always lose. So what do people expect here? Why would anyone casually throw away stuff in a game that does everything in it's power to appear harsh and cold? It makes no sense whatsoever to practicly give away stuff to people who were more experienced then you to begin with.

I'm sorry, but I find it 100% logical PVP puts certain people off. Most low-level fights are completely meaningless one-sided ganks. Since you level like a snail in EvE and decent ships don't come cheap, I find it completely unsurprising people get stuck in a routine that does not include pvp at all.
Tarvos Telesto
Blood Fanatics
#56 - 2013-01-03 16:46:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarvos Telesto
"Idea to perhaps get more people involved in PvP"

Only CCP can change this by changing game mechanic and add some new features.

People cant get more people on pvp in big scale because.

1.Some people hate blobs and being blob part.
2.Not eveyone want to be part of big corporations - allys.
3.A lot people hate to die to these blobs.
4. Fact that PVP in general is expensive and long planning proces, no instant pvp here, LOL dude wtf you talk about, you can always use cheap frigate on pvp, yes i can but probably i die to instant alpha tornado, and after this in worse case they sent me 40 jumps away to medical station, so yes again pvp is expensive and long therm in general.

Nothing big change because pvp is based on blob and long threm wars, also pvp on large scale mean long therm CTA, POS-SOV war etc, gate hugging, this style of PvP is in general for patient people, but not for mass.

That why PVE in EvE is unique, specific, and in some cases marginal, that rumor on KB and ship explosion everywhere form other perspective its only ilusion.

EvE isn't game, its style of living.

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#57 - 2013-01-03 17:27:40 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
STOP TRYING TO FORCE PEOPLE TO PLAY THIS GAME LIKE YOYU WANT TO PLAY IT


There is *no* freedom of choice for most people. Most people simply stick to what they have learned
and have a hard time adapting to anything new. That's how the masses work, btw.
It gets even worse when they grow older.



......or maybe they just do not care for it, having learned from past experiences. Sheesh.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#58 - 2013-01-03 17:28:12 UTC
Complex Potential wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Nominate for best sentence of this 3 day old year:

"Change what has been taught in RL and reset the gamers mind."


Sounds like it belongs in a George Orwell book.



"For reallz"

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#59 - 2013-01-03 17:29:53 UTC
Lovely Dumplings wrote:
Huge chunks of it really are a risk fear, embedded good and deep from Rookie Chat and starter corps. Just a couple weeks back, I saw an "official" ISD newbie helper, telling a guy who asked about lowsec, "Don't go you'll get blown up". Once you get that level of risk-fear built in, it's hard to break.


I was not comfortable going into Low Sec until after the 1st year. ISD gave great true advice, btw. No lie there.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#60 - 2013-01-03 17:31:58 UTC
Agwass Pewtry wrote:


Thinking needs to be changed. You do indeed have to un-teach what is taught in RL and break the mold of fear.



.......And another one.

What is this here, the Marine Corp Boot Camp ?

Get real.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882