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Idea to perhaps get more people involved in PvP.

Author
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-01-03 12:21:15 UTC
Thomas Gore wrote:

OP, your idea is doomed. Anyone who really wants to take the "rough road" and head to low sec PvP right away can already do so with minimal investment. At least the current way they might have a clue what they are about to do and what their chances of survival will be.


Yeah, i remember the day when I first realized that I can actually replace my mighty ferox (once) in case I lost it and decided to "explore" lowsec and get into a fight.

2 jumps and 5 minutes Later I was back to highsec and fitting my new ferox all while thinking "that was fast..."

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Ocih
Space Mermaids
Somethin Awfull Forums
#22 - 2013-01-03 12:26:07 UTC
Well intentioned I am sure but EVE is FFA and FFA means do what works best and the rest is just there to muddy the water. In EVE what works best is to gank. It trumps everything. Sure, you can try and play cloak games but you are easy to avoid and produce very low damage. A solo player in EVE is an impediment, nothing more. All new people are solo by default when they start EVE and for the ones who are not hard set on being a gank boy in a gank game, the future you have in EVE is limited.

EVE will never give up its FFA and EVE will never be more than just another Zerg based game. I don't see a future growth for EVE. it's old, everyone knows what it is and no amount of fancy talking is going to make it any more popular than it is here and today.
pussnheels
Viziam
#23 - 2013-01-03 12:37:22 UTC
STOP TRYING TO FORCE PEOPLE TO PLAY THIS GAME LIKE YOYU WANT TO PLAY IT

serious forcing people into a playing style they do not want is not going to make this a better game, contrary it will eventually turn this into a hifgh end arcade game and leads only to a massive number of subscribers leaving a,d the e,d of EvE

This is a great game with dozens of different playing style and that makes this game so great
And if people are not carefull they get ganked ,that is EvE
i don't think there are many people that care when another untanked mack gets ganked because he is AFK or when a pimped up officerfitted missionship gets blown up in a overpopulated mission hub

And if you really looking for pvp , contact me i can show you the direction of the closest lowsec / null sec systems

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#24 - 2013-01-03 12:39:46 UTC
Nominate for best sentence of this 3 day old year:

"Change what has been taught in RL and reset the gamers mind."

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2013-01-03 12:52:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
why do you need to make people interested in pvp? what do you think they are 5 year olds who dont know sjit?

if someone wants to pvp,he will pvp - if not some puny frigate cockfight will not change it

actually if you want ppl get interested in pvp you should put them in carrier,dread or titan so they have a goal in front of them

Wrong.

"Imprinting", "Neophobia", "What can i do?" vs. "Hey, i'll try this out", etc.

You're assuming there's a freedom of choice, where there is none for most people.

Next.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2013-01-03 12:55:05 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
STOP TRYING TO FORCE PEOPLE TO PLAY THIS GAME LIKE YOYU WANT TO PLAY IT


There is *no* freedom of choice for most people. Most people simply stick to what they have learned
and have a hard time adapting to anything new. That's how the masses work, btw.
It gets even worse when they grow older.
Complex Potential
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-01-03 12:56:55 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
STOP TRYING TO FORCE PEOPLE TO PLAY THIS GAME LIKE YOYU WANT TO PLAY IT


While I can't say I agree with the OP's idea, I think this is a little harsh. He's just looking for ways to remove some of the mental barriers for those who might otherwise try their hand in low/null.

I don't see how his suggestion would force people to do anything. Encourage yes, force no.

Felicity Love
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-01-03 13:03:08 UTC
Or , for whatever reason that is based on simple choice, some folks just don't want or like PVP.

There, problem solved. OBVIOUS answer is OBVIOUS. Scary, isn't it?


No barstool psycho-analysis or energy-beverage induced nerd-rage required.


Roll

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Complex Potential
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-01-03 13:04:41 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Nominate for best sentence of this 3 day old year:

"Change what has been taught in RL and reset the gamers mind."


Sounds like it belongs in a George Orwell book.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-01-03 13:07:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Felicity Love wrote:
Or , for whatever reason that is based on simple choice, some folks just don't want or like PVP.

There, problem solved. OBVIOUS answer is OBVIOUS. Scary, isn't it?


No barstool psycho-analysis or energy-beverage induced nerd-rage required.


Roll

Too bad reality doesn't actually work that way ... "choice-based".
Well ... except for people who actually believe in that crap.
Thomas Gore
Blackfyre Enterprise
#31 - 2013-01-03 13:11:15 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Felicity Love wrote:
Or , for whatever reason that is based on simple choice, some folks just don't want or like PVP.

There, problem solved. OBVIOUS answer is OBVIOUS. Scary, isn't it?


No barstool psycho-analysis or energy-beverage induced nerd-rage required.


Roll

Too bad reality doesn't actually work that way.
Well ... except for people who actually believe in that crap.


You're starting to sound like all high-sec dwellers would actually rather PvP, but they have been brainwashed to fear low-sec and PvP and thus avoid it. Could it be that some people just won't like PvP, even if they tried?
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
#32 - 2013-01-03 13:16:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Randolph Rothstein
Solstice Project wrote:
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
why do you need to make people interested in pvp? what do you think they are 5 year olds who dont know sjit?

if someone wants to pvp,he will pvp - if not some puny frigate cockfight will not change it

actually if you want ppl get interested in pvp you should put them in carrier,dread or titan so they have a goal in front of them

Wrong.

"Imprinting", "Neophobia", "What can i do?" vs. "Hey, i'll try this out", etc.

You're assuming there's a freedom of choice, where there is none for most people.

Next.


hey there sigmund before i call your mum and ask for a picture of your phd hanging in the basement let me slap you off of your high horse

people have much more freedom than you think otherwise there wouldnt be so many fcked up threads on GD forum

you had freedom to make a demented avatar with stupid tattoo,i cant see why ppl cant choose not to pvp or pve or mine for that matter

/passive agressive rant

on a serious note - you are way overcomplicating things here,no need to dwell into secret of human behaviour - when i come home from work i just wanna escape for a while into imaginary world,it makes me feel good and if i want to pvp i will if i find more time to play
Alphax45
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-01-03 13:18:45 UTC
Agwass Pewtry wrote:

Then it hit me, ease the fears of what is going to happen before it happens. Develop in game a PvP tutorial and give the new player no risk ships (only to be used in PvP). Fit these ships, auto warp these ships to Low sec and walk the player through the paces. 5 ships maybe? Make available cheap ship "packs" that new players can get for cheap. No insurance (uninsurable) and prefit these ships. Low risk.


As someone who is "stuck" in high sec doing mining (lack of skill; I'm training!) I love this idea!

Also: I would love to see (somehow) the ability to buy SP and/or skills with the required L5 SP attached on the market with ISK. That would avoid the having to wait for real time skills to train.
Borlag Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-01-03 13:21:43 UTC
Alphax45 wrote:
Agwass Pewtry wrote:

Then it hit me, ease the fears of what is going to happen before it happens. Develop in game a PvP tutorial and give the new player no risk ships (only to be used in PvP). Fit these ships, auto warp these ships to Low sec and walk the player through the paces. 5 ships maybe? Make available cheap ship "packs" that new players can get for cheap. No insurance (uninsurable) and prefit these ships. Low risk.


As someone who is "stuck" in high sec doing mining (lack of skill; I'm training!) I love this idea!

Also: I would love to see (somehow) the ability to buy SP and/or skills with the required L5 SP attached on the market with ISK. That would avoid the having to wait for real time skills to train.


And the very next day after that is implemented, you'd regret it as the people who were ahead of you in SP would be ahead of you in SP even more as they can afford to do so. Would be a killing blow for the game.
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
#35 - 2013-01-03 13:25:23 UTC
Borlag Crendraven wrote:
Alphax45 wrote:
Agwass Pewtry wrote:

Then it hit me, ease the fears of what is going to happen before it happens. Develop in game a PvP tutorial and give the new player no risk ships (only to be used in PvP). Fit these ships, auto warp these ships to Low sec and walk the player through the paces. 5 ships maybe? Make available cheap ship "packs" that new players can get for cheap. No insurance (uninsurable) and prefit these ships. Low risk.


As someone who is "stuck" in high sec doing mining (lack of skill; I'm training!) I love this idea!

Also: I would love to see (somehow) the ability to buy SP and/or skills with the required L5 SP attached on the market with ISK. That would avoid the having to wait for real time skills to train.


And the very next day after that is implemented, you'd regret it as the people who were ahead of you in SP would be ahead of you in SP even more as they can afford to do so. Would be a killing blow for the game.


hey hows that quote something like every change benefiting newbies will substantialy more benefit the vets
Alphax45
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-01-03 13:25:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Alphax45
Borlag Crendraven wrote:

And the very next day after that is implemented, you'd regret it as the people who were ahead of you in SP would be ahead of you in SP even more as they can afford to do so. Would be a killing blow for the game.


Very true; for that I give you a Touche

I guess there would have to be some sort of limit on it. Like you can only buy so much SP every 24 hours;

It's early and I'm thinking out loud (bad idea I know) :P
Lovely Dumplings
My Little Pony Appreciation Corporation
#37 - 2013-01-03 13:31:54 UTC
Huge chunks of it really are a risk fear, embedded good and deep from Rookie Chat and starter corps. Just a couple weeks back, I saw an "official" ISD newbie helper, telling a guy who asked about lowsec, "Don't go you'll get blown up". Once you get that level of risk-fear built in, it's hard to break.

www.minerbumping.com

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2013-01-03 13:36:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Thomas Gore wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Felicity Love wrote:
Or , for whatever reason that is based on simple choice, some folks just don't want or like PVP.

There, problem solved. OBVIOUS answer is OBVIOUS. Scary, isn't it?


No barstool psycho-analysis or energy-beverage induced nerd-rage required.


Roll

Too bad reality doesn't actually work that way.
Well ... except for people who actually believe in that crap.


You're starting to sound like all high-sec dwellers would actually rather PvP, but they have been brainwashed to fear low-sec and PvP and thus avoid it. Could it be that some people just won't like PvP, even if they tried?

That's not what i meant. I'm having hard times to talk via text.
I'm used to talk in voice, using "hand and feet". Expressions. Sound.
Makes things much easier.

If you raise a kid to fight ... it will fight. If you raise a kid to run away ... it will run away.
It's hard work to change that behaviour once that kid grows older and the chances for that adult
to change his behaviour by himself are rather slim. Possible, but slim.

There are several different subgroups of people within the group of those who don't want to PvP.

There's no game like EvE and most people are used to all that crap that's out there.
"go back to wow" didn't come up "just so". It's a metaphor that displays exactly that ...
that people simply are used to all the crap that's out there.

There *are* people who are annoyed by these crappy games,
join EvE and realize that carebearing was the worst thing they ever did.

Proof is out there. People who got sick of carebearing, tried actual "PvP" and would never look back.
These people are, sadly, the exception ... and not the rule.

The goal should be to change peoples behaviour from the get go. Remove the emotional attachment to pixels.
Remove the fake feeling of accomplishment from dealing with AI. Teach them that there's a world out there
worth participating in. People worth dealing with, even if it's only with your guns.

Think about it for a second. Do you really think that those who don't dare combating against people,
are behaving so by *choice* ? No ! They behave that way, because they have learned - in one way or another -
to behave that way.

The worst subgroup of these people are the self entitled, who bath their perceived (imaginary) high self esteem
with the shallow sense of accomplishment of killing AI. Fighting actual people is a threat to them,
because there's a chance of actually losing, which would ruin their imaginary (bloated) self esteem.
I know two of these personally.

Don't believe me ? Then think it through. All your (generic your) life you have fought AI ... and you kept winning.
Woah ... you're so tough. Unbeatable. Then you joined EvE. Then people came and kicked your candy ass.
What happens then ? They rage in chat. They rage at forums. They ragequit.

These can't be changed ... but ask GOONS or TEST ... there are lot of people out there who can be taught
how to have fun in EvE, the way it was actually advertised for. For example, "butterfly effect".

You don't see CCP-made videos about people sitting in belts for a reason !
Skorpynekomimi
#39 - 2013-01-03 14:11:28 UTC
PVP ship packs, huh? That's not a bad idea. I might be able to knock up a few Rifters together with a passable pvp fit, but would I make a profit selling them as a complete unit?

Economic PVP

Agwass Pewtry
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2013-01-03 14:29:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Agwass Pewtry
The whole point is, you need to change thinking.

I have played about ever MMO ever made. The process is always the same, gear up (grind might be included) and go PvP. You win some and you lose some but you lose nothing and head back swinging. Eve is a much scarier deal.

The people whom are playing PvP, for the most part are people whom take risks in life. It's psychology. It's like I said in the first post, like having a new car blown up in a dark ally. You could also see it as walking in a bad neighborhood knowing that you are going to be taken away in a ambulance.

Thinking needs to be changed. You do indeed have to un-teach what is taught in RL and break the mold of fear. Sure, it's a game. But is in our psychology to equate ourselves and relate fantasy to RL even if it makes little sense. I could approach the whole thing as losing a ship does not hurt me in RL and just do it over and over for lulz, although possible it does come across as stupid in reality.

So how do we get people to overcome natural defensive/protective barriers? That's the question that needs solved and the problem will fix itself.