Market Discussions

Can this be done from corp wallet ?

Also, replying to "bookmark" thread :D

I think that allowing for a negative balance to be created when there are insufficient funds would be a very good mechanic. I am not all that concerned about protecting people from being scammed but I do think that it would provide a level of riskiness that margin trading currently lacks. It would add something to the game if a trader had to weigh the benefits of leveraging himself for greater profit while being at risk of over-leveraging himself and being susceptible to incurring large debts due to overly risky behavior.

How I overlooked that possibility is beyond me.

This is the kind of game mechanic abuse I would push CCP to fix, I don't think the existing CSM is that anxious to push for a fix since they're largely dominated by nullsec alliance members. I have no problems with scamming, but margin trading scams are abusing flaws in game mechanics, the intent of the margin trading skill was to allow you to leverage more buying power, not to allow this kind of scam. The skill should remain in the game, but the mechanics should be alterered, either the consequences for running out of capital should be far more severe, or, orders which cannot be completed should not be visible in the market.

While negative balances would be nice it fails because of the potential to create isk out of nothing. The most workable change would be to require that the cash placed in escrow for an order is always sufficient to cover the minimum buy quantity, whenever a purchase happens more money is moved from the character's wallet into the escrow fund, and if there's insufficient cash then the order is cancelled at that point. This works nicely for buying piles of goods, the margin trading functionality remains intact in function, but it breaks down for the traditional MT scam mechanic. However, it also breaks down if you're buying single items, such as ships, then the escrow account needs to contain 100% of the cash, this is an acceptable compromise compared with people who have suggested removing the skill entirely.

If you think margin trading needs a fix then consider voting for me in the CSM Election.

Are you crazy? Ccp should not touch it, but they should give players a possibility to consult an agent to check the available escrow. Most ppl i scam send me mails like : "that was totally awesome" or "you got me there, have fun with the isk's :)" so no, ccp should definately not fix something that is not broken. It is one of the best lessons in life, if it is to good to be true, dont trust it.

I think the reason this works is because:

1) It doesn't work the same as margin trading in the real world - yet ccp deceptively calls it "margin trading."

2) the actual way it works in the game is not explained in the game.

Until either point changes there will always be new people entering the game who misunderstand how "margin trading" works in game.


It may have been a "clever" scam the first time someone did it. But like the other 99% of eve scams that people keep spamming you no longer need to be clever.

Negative money is not the way to fix this, because it's basically free money at that point.

Make it so you can't set a minimum required amount to "sell to you" if you're margin trading.

Basically make it so they can't have it set so that you have to sell all 5,000 units at once if full cash is not in the wallet. Make is so you can sell 1 item at a time to margin traders and it can't be set that you HAVE to sell all 5,000 units at once to get that price. This will fix it for the most part.

This would make me gazillionair in 5 minutes.

Please csm put this through :)

If you dont have one, Build alt, train 12. Days, transfer alll your cash place buy order for something for all your money for example if you have 80 billion. You make a buy order of 404% x80bil of a type-d blabla module. Order says: 242bil is the possible buy order for 1000 of these units.

Take main toon, selll 1000 of these units for a total of 242bil. Boom money quadrupled!

Go to alt acc make new toon (dont bio the first one, that is illegal) and repeat. 242bilx4 .. ... Etc

You're an idiot for having no idea how margin trading works IRL while trying to argue about it's legitimacy in EVE. There is no risk for the one putting up buy orders, at all, in EVE. In RL the risks go both ways, you can make a large profit, or you can sink into a hole you can't get out of, which is why suicide rates are what they are in the business.

Just stop. You will never win this ******** argument. Ever.

The issue of margin trading abuse (not a scam, but an abuse of game mechanics) needs to be addressed. End of story.

The Mortgage melt down has nothing to do with margin trading... In real life Margin Trading is basically like a credit card. You are given a loan (technically a Margin Account), to buy or sell a stock/bond/whatever and you have to pay that back, or you go into debt. Which has very real consequences financially speaking. Like they take all your assets that your account holds to make up the difference.

Which is why I made the comment about putting your wallet into a negative balance that had to be paid back.

If they made the cost of the skill for Margin Trading a lot higher than it is right now, upwards of a few hundreds of millions, and then implemented a negative isk balance if someone tried the scam. They'd have to do a pretty large scam, in order for creating a character, training it up, running the scam, then deleting and remaking a new character. It wouldn't become a fees-able scam unless you're talking large amounts. The other thing is that if that doesn't work your isk balance should be checked if someone tries to sell you the goods, and if there is not enough isk to fulfill the order it the sale gets rejected.