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Help needed, my GFX card died! (And now I need a new computer)

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Author
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#21 - 2013-01-03 16:22:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Comey Calla wrote:
But, are there any compatibility issues in mounting a PCIE 3.0 card on a PCIE 1.1 mainboard?

All PCIe things are fully backwards compatible, both hardware and firmware, and planned to remain so for at least the following generation also (most probably to be released in late 2014 or early 2015).

Comey Calla wrote:
I can't believe it, just a few days ago I had a perfectly apt machine that delivered anyhting I expected from it and now it's become obsolete. Ignorance is a bliss... Lol

The thing is, you're not really supposed to hang on to a PC for more than 3 years (even just 2 years for "budget" machines) unless you spent a fortune on it to begin with (and in that case it just might last 5, or at best 6 years) before becoming hopelessly outdated compared to new stuff that comes out.

However, if you're running a single EVE instance and not much else on the side (maybe still from WinXP?), and don't plan on playing any last-gen games in high-ish graphic detail, then your quickly aging machine should still be quite enough for a while longer.
Sturmwolke
#22 - 2013-01-03 16:41:41 UTC
Pretty much as per above if you want to stay Nvidia - basically anything with the new Kepler cores. There's a lot of confusion with the NVidia models due to their rebadging exercises and anything older than the Keplers weren't really as competitive vs the new AMD Radeons 6000/7000 series.

Just had a cheap ATI 6670 DDR5 for replacement for on my aging C2D. Works like a charm except I can't control the fps intervals for EVE, so it's locked to v-sync. Ramped up the fan to work at 100% at all times and it stayed silent. I don't really trust the auto-fan management, got burned twice before, never again Blink These newer 40nm cards runs damn cool (30-50C range). My brother had a chance to try out the ATI 7750 DDR5, these 28nm cores run just as cool and performance wise equivalent to the older NVidia 8800GT, if not slightly better.

Only reason why I swapped to Radeon (from years of using NVidia) was price/performance competitiveness. Would have liked to get the new Kepler cores, but they haven't completely replaced the lower-end market as yet. Oh one thing, I wasn't really keen on the Radeon drivers ... it's almost amateurish when you look at the interface. Seeing it for myself, I guess there might be some truth behind all that noise about Radeon drivers being sucky (especially for Linux boxes).
Comey Calla
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-01-03 21:02:47 UTC
Well, I already checked some stores and there's only one last question... ASUS or GIGABYTE? Lol

Gigabyte are a tad cheaper, whereas ASUS are a tad more expensive and my last ASUS has suffered that untimely fan failure.

Which manufacturer would you suggest me?
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-01-03 21:52:15 UTC
Comey Calla wrote:
Well, I already checked some stores and there's only one last question... ASUS or GIGABYTE? Lol

Gigabyte are a tad cheaper, whereas ASUS are a tad more expensive and my last ASUS has suffered that untimely fan failure.

Which manufacturer would you suggest me?

Since you are not buying top of the line card, get the cheapest one.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#25 - 2013-01-04 03:53:24 UTC
I have a Gigabyte slightly factory-overclocked "v1" 1GB GTX 460 inside my machine right now (since September of 2010).
I personally like the heavier-duty cooling system of Gigabyte cards the best so far - huge heatsink, dual fans, venting both outside and inside the PC case, which is actually a plus for me since I have a pretty strong internal case airflow going already anyway (but that might be a minus for some people with less windy cases).
Truth be told, very early, it had a couple of weird hickups (occasional, infrequent graphic corruption soon after launching a game), but I can only assume it was the driver's fault, since I haven't experienced that anymore since ages ago.
Commissar Kate
Kesukka
#26 - 2013-01-04 16:30:07 UTC
Comey Calla wrote:
Well, I already checked some stores and there's only one last question... ASUS or GIGABYTE? Lol

Gigabyte are a tad cheaper, whereas ASUS are a tad more expensive and my last ASUS has suffered that untimely fan failure.

Which manufacturer would you suggest me?


Both are about the same really, just comes down to price/availability

But I will say that the Asus cards with their custom DCU II heatsinks have to be the one quietest solutions I have ever heard if that's any concern to you. (I hate computer noise)
Comey Calla
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-01-05 13:00:46 UTC
Laugh to not cry... I bought a new GFX card and forgot the very first you warned me: power supply.

Mine are 300 watts, 28 A at 12v.

Card needs 38 A at 12 v.

Technology ganked me and I am gonna need a new computer. Lol


So I change the title of the thread and ask a different matter... what components should I buy?

My plans are to buy a balanced desktop rig that can last longer than 3 years. I already own a nVidia 650 ( Lol ) so I only need advice on everything else. I am not a fanatical gamer and my budget should remain under 500 € for the box, cooling, mainboard, processor, memory and HD.

What features should have the mainboard?

What processor? Intel core i5 or i7? What's the sweet spot for price/performance/should last longer than 3 years?

How many RAM? Likely 8 Gb DD3 should be enough for the next years, right?

Hard disk? Likely 1x 1 Tb, Western Digital disk. I guess SSD are still too expensive for my budget. Is there something I should consider about the hard disks nowadays?

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-01-06 03:30:18 UTC
if your on a budget look at an i3/i5 solution.
Onboard Audio , LAN, 6-8 USB connectors are all good quality these days
Onboard Video for a desktop is the spawn of SATAN EvilTwisted, treat a board with this like it has leprosy AND the "lurgy"

Find a local(ish) builder with a website that allows custom builds
Add/Remove parts (after checking compatabilty/tech specs) untill you make your budget work.
If thier site isnt displaying tech specs, find a better site.
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#29 - 2013-01-06 11:35:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Comey Calla wrote:
Mine are 300 watts, 28 A at 12v.[...]Card needs 38 A at 12 v [...]nVidia 650


You must be reading something wrong. 28A * 12V = 336 W just on the 12v rail(s), plus heck knows how much extra on the 5V rail(s), not just 300W total. Please double-check.

Also, card can't possibly need 38A on the 12V rails. That's 456W !!! You must be reading something wrong again.
Maybe you mean, the manufacturer RECOMMENDS that, to cover any possible usage scenario (and likely also PSU decay), but you don't actually NEED that much. Not even close.

Your former video card (GeForce 9500 GT) had a TDP of 50W. A GTX 650 has a TDP of just 64W.
You don't need much over 64W at worst for the new card, and usually much less.
That's just 5.33A at 12V. Call it a 6A just to be on the safe side. But that's about it.
The difference in normal power draw between your old card and your new card is a paltry 14W, or barely above 1A.

It's very likely your current PSU will have absolutely no problem at all driving your new GTX 650.

Have you even tried mounting it instead of your old card and turning the machine on ?
What exactly does it happen when you do that ?
Nothing bad should happen, at least not just on power-up, since as long as you don't start any 3D accelerated apps, the card should barely consume any power at all.
At worst, the computer might reboot after you start a heavy-demand 3D accelerated app, but that's about the worst that can happen with a video card with such a low TDP, especially since you already had a video card with a comparable TDP inside already.

A Q9300 machine (95W TDP) with a stock GTX 650 (64W TDP) and no overclocks anywhere (so most likely about 80W for mobo+RAM+HDD tops) should run just fine even with a slightly aged 300W PSU , if that's what you actually have in your machine now.
Just switch your old 9500 with the new 650 and all will be gravy.
Comey Calla
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-01-06 13:42:03 UTC
Akita T wrote:
Comey Calla wrote:
Mine are 300 watts, 28 A at 12v.[...]Card needs 38 A at 12 v [...]nVidia 650


You must be reading something wrong. 28A * 12V = 336 W just on the 12v rail(s), plus heck knows how much extra on the 5V rail(s), not just 300W total. Please double-check.

Also, card can't possibly need 38A on the 12V rails. That's 456W !!! You must be reading something wrong again.
Maybe you mean, the manufacturer RECOMMENDS that, to cover any possible usage scenario (and likely also PSU decay), but you don't actually NEED that much. Not even close.

Your former video card (GeForce 9500 GT) had a TDP of 50W. A GTX 650 has a TDP of just 64W.
You don't need much over 64W at worst for the new card, and usually much less.
That's just 5.33A at 12V. Call it a 6A just to be on the safe side. But that's about it.
The difference in normal power draw between your old card and your new card is a paltry 14W, or barely above 1A.

It's very likely your current PSU will have absolutely no problem at all driving your new GTX 650.

Have you even tried mounting it instead of your old card and turning the machine on ?
What exactly does it happen when you do that ?
Nothing bad should happen, at least not just on power-up, since as long as you don't start any 3D accelerated apps, the card should barely consume any power at all.
At worst, the computer might reboot after you start a heavy-demand 3D accelerated app, but that's about the worst that can happen with a video card with such a low TDP, especially since you already had a video card with a comparable TDP inside already.

A Q9300 machine (95W TDP) with a stock GTX 650 (64W TDP) and no overclocks anywhere (so most likely about 80W for mobo+RAM+HDD tops) should run just fine even with a slightly aged 300W PSU , if that's what you actually have in your machine now.
Just switch your old 9500 with the new 650 and all will be gravy.


Well, that's what I figured... I saw the 64 W thing and thought that it would not make much difference from 50 W. But I didn't tried to actually install the card and start the computer... Lol

The new card does have a plug to plug it to the power supply, is it necessary? Or it' may be another "just in case" feature, like warning I'll need 500 watt? Question
Comey Calla
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2013-01-06 17:24:42 UTC
Guess what... my brand new GFX card is working perfectly. Talk about shoddy user manuals... Lol
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#32 - 2013-01-07 12:08:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
The PCI-E slot itself can provide up to 75W of power, and additional power is provided via that plug (another 75W max through a 6-pin one for up to 150W total, because that's what you have on the card, I assume).
The power plug is there in case you want to overclock the card and thus drive your TDP from the stock 64W to above the 75W the socket can provide.

Personally, I would advise against overclocking.
It could even be possible to have your warranty voided in case you decide to ever overclock (and the card itself might even record whether if it was ever overclocked, but I'm not sure about that).

Rule of thumb approximation, for reasonable overclocks, power use generally goes up to the power of 3 compared to clock speed increase... so, say, a 10% hike in frequencies will generally require about 33% extra power, give or take. Environmental temperature and other things also play a factor, so actual results could vary quite significantly.
With just 75W-64W=11W -> ~17% extra wiggle room, you could at best hope for a ~5% overclock before you need additional power from the plug, and it would probably be recommended to plug that in even if you try just 3% overclocks, just in case.

Comey Calla wrote:
Talk about shoddy user manuals... Lol

Well, it's more about protecting themselves from the consumer's anger in a "worst reasonable case" scenario.
PSUs decay over time (the closer to their upper limit they operate, the sooner and faster they drop in performance), and cheaper PSUs generally slightly overstate their performance to begin with (if not worse), so it's not unreasonable to expect SOME non-negligible percentage of consumers to only be able to provide only about 60% of the power the PSU was originally rated at (or worse).
So, a cheap, quite old and frequently used near peak power 500W PSU turns into practically just a 300W PSU (or even less), and they don't know for sure what else you have in your machine (you might have an older and power-hungry CPU, you might have even overclocked it, and so on and so forth), so they figure if they tell you that you need a 500W PSU, that's enough for almost everybody to not have any insufficient-power-related issues until the video card warranty runs out.
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