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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Fleet Boosting and Fleet Numbers

Author
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#1 - 2013-01-02 12:53:08 UTC
Just curious with all the OGB chat going around, why not just down size the numbers of people in a fleet that can be in that fleet... I never really understood the whole idea of 256 people in a fleet as a norm, seemed like a larger and needed for the job [blob] - maybe they should simply force the mechanic to a less number of people, say only the FC can boost [with modules] to the whole fleet, or a fleet booster, and the rest only apply skills not modules having only one booster per fleet then with a ganglink and then the rest only pass on down the skills boost for being a leader position... eg wings and squads.

Then you don't have these rediculous levels of boosting and fleets would be smaller, as people would have may smaller doctrine fleets as groups rather than huge blobs all getting many boosts... you would have to have an armor fleet for a armor boost, a shield fleet for same, etc... it seems a very simply way to get smaller gangs and also less boosting abuse in general... then if you single booster sits in a pos or a SS for the fleet who reall cares, it's the only solo boost, be it the FC or a assigned single booster, that is total for the fleet in question, and if they want another one they have to make a different fleet to get that flavor or boost.

always seemed to me that a couple smaller fleets in the place of one big one always had game mechanics beneftis and no real downside to what CCP wanted fleets to be, where the huge blob is a nightmare on hardwear and also a mess... in so many ways... smaller formations having to work as smaller independent units would have to have a "combined arms" approach, where the blob is just a mass of dps with no real tactics - imho - other than primay/secondary, F1... if say you had to have a smaller fleet of ship with one booster you would prob have to have a BS fleet, and a cruiser fleet, and a frigate fleet, and so on in small numbers, and while they may well be in the same grid, they wouldn't be the same unit, for command and control and so they would have to be able to function as a part of a mission and coodination of FCs rather than just one big blob mass with only one director...deligation is good... OGB isn't the issue, I see the too large units being the issue, the boosting is just a part of that as there are too many affecting boosting slots, and too many receivers of boost in one fleet organization.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#2 - 2013-01-02 13:12:30 UTC
Three small letters: EHP.

CCP chose the EHP grind and timers as the de facto method of 'controlling' time, combined with a steady increase in subscriptions (although stagnated a bit lately I think) you end up with 3-4 fleets (ie. a thousand people) for the regular grinds. Without changing the above paradigms, any changes such as suggested will just add administrative work to fleet warfare as you'd have 6-7 fleets rolling around together rather than 3-4.

In short: For the desired outcome, of several smaller crews running around you have to give them something to do that 'Da Blob' can't do better/faster and you would have to address the force projection issue (read: Supers+Bridges = The third rail of Eve).

PS: OGB is the issue as one cheap'ish ship can augment several others to the tune of trillions (if the augment was individual mod/implant based (officer/faction)) while being nigh invulnerable doing so. But props for bringing some variety to the OGB defence lobby.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#3 - 2013-01-02 15:26:23 UTC
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
Just curious with all the OGB chat going around, why not just down size the numbers of people in a fleet that can be in that fleet... I never really understood the whole idea of 256 people in a fleet as a norm, seemed like a larger and needed for the job [blob]



You're saying that large fleets are the reason people use off-grid boosters so much, but that is completely wrong. Fleet sizes have nothing to do with off-grid boosters. People complain about OGBs because they provide enormous bonuses to a gang of less than 10 people. Many prominent solo pvpers always keep their OGB alt with them. See some video with a guy using a deadspace active armor tanked faction BS fighting a gang of 6 other dudes? He for sure has an OGB with armor links in the system.

CCP has incentive to nerf OGBs because they seem unfair to many players, and are unreasonably difficult to counter. However, CCP doesn't want to make OGBs not-useful, since OGBs are almost always a secondary account operated by another player in that fleet. Nerfing OGBs too much would reduce subscriptions.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Mister Tuggles
Heretic Army
Sedition.
#4 - 2013-01-02 17:08:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Mister Tuggles
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
Just curious with all the OGB chat going around, why not just down size the numbers of people in a fleet that can be in that fleet... I never really understood the whole idea of 256 people in a fleet as a norm,



The biggest problem with doing this is the amount of time it takes to train up skills for the boosting...

** These times are with the correct remaps for the skills with +5 implants **

It takes over 2 months to train Wing Commander, and Fleet Commander to r5 to give you the ability to have that large of a fleet. You have another 4ish months in training to use all t2 boosters. Then you have another month or two in training to get core skills up to fit a ship, 15 days for cybernetics 5 for a mindlink, another couple months for training for a t3....Since t3 boosting is getting nerfed you have a large amount of time to spend on training up the pre-reqs for command ships and then taking it to 5.

I think you are starting to get the picture here. This character is my alt booster that I started about 6 months ago. He currently has about 6m SP in Leadership alone, and isn't even remotely close to being done with it. Still have 13 days to take armor/info warfare to 5, 51 days to take those specialties to 5, 30 days to take wing command to 5, another 30 days for fleet commander to 5. That is about another 4-5 months of training purely into Leadership with charisma remap to be able to just use the boosters, and apply them to a fleet. Then he will have to use a remap, and add another 3-4 months in training to get his cores/comps/spaceship command skills up to even be able to use a ship effectively. That doesn't even take into account taking gunnery/missile skills/supports to t2/5.


That being said I do think off grid boosting is a huge problem in Eve. If you try to solo PVP you never know if you are fighting one person, or a person with their booster alt giving them +50% resists, shield hp, and excessively long points.

There is a fairly straight forward and simple solution to the problem. While CCP nerfing t3's/buffing command ships is a step in the right direction it really doesn't address the main problem with boosting, being off grid. Now, all they would have to do is make the amount of boost that you receive dependent upon how far away from the booster you are. If the booster is on grid you would get 100% of the bonus. If the booster is 200k or so off grid you would get 50% of the bonus, and if the booster is off grid you would get 25% of the bonus. These are just random numbers off the top of my head but I think you get the jist of the idea. I also think if this were to happen CCP would have to drop some of the training times on the actual boosting skills, and give people who had them trained the SP difference. I believe command ships would also need a complete rework on slot layout/bonuses since it is extremely hard to fit more than one link and still be viable for combat. Maybe introduce a new line of command battleship (tech 2) as well.

I have suggested this solution a few times over, but I doubt it will ever actually happen. The amount of account subs lost if CCP nerfed off grid boosting would be more than they would want to deal with.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#5 - 2013-01-04 02:41:35 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
I never really understood the whole idea of 256 people in a fleet as a norm,


256=16*16=2^8 ... 8 bit byte
Reason why its 256 & not 255 is there are no fleets of 0
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'