Intergalactic Summit

For the most part, CONCORD does it's work with external parties from other stations these days. Not to mention the distribution of their command and control systems after the attack.

The Bureau itself is mostly used for administrative work, and it works perfectly fine for that. I should know considering it's where our offices are located.

I'm not against fixing the station. But it's not something that needs to be done, and I'm sure there are other, more pressing matters that require attention first. Symbolism is important to an extent, but it still loses out to enforcing the mandate. As for the offers to take it off their hands and fix it yourself, I highly doubt that CONCORD would ever willingly hand the station over to anyone. Furthermore, I doubt there are many capsuleers in the cluster that would have the resources to fix it themselves, even if they were given the go ahead to do so. There's a reason that we only deploy outposts, and not fully fledged stations out in Null Security space.

If after all that, you still feel that fixing stations is your thing, Malkalen has one that could use some attention. It did get hit first after all, so it's only right that it gets some attention first.

I have nothing but respect for CONCORD, which is why i proposed this in the first place.

I am however very surprised by your personal attitude about this.

CONCORD as a whole is not staffed only by starship captains - It would surprise me to find that there are no architects or builders in the employ of the organization, especially since CONCORD tends to keep such matters to themselves. What are they doing right now, if not designing and building? Are they sitting somewhere, twiddling their thumbs?

It seems rather short-sighted to be brutally honest.

That's avoiding the issue. Besides, Malkalen does not have the same impact as the CONCORD bureau.

i'd also suggest that keeping the station running in it's current state, in the long term, costs more money than rebuilding it to it's former glory. That, and rebuilding the station as it would could eventually provide additional resources due to it's possible remergence as a market and open political hub...

Again, the foolhardy pride and strange short-sightedness surprise me.

A broken tool can hardly serve the purpose it was created for. Certainly what is left of the station still functions mostly, there is still a docking hangar, the services it offers are still available All the basic station needs, but that wasn't its purpose, to be simply a station. So it may still be serving A purpose, I highly doubt its the one it was designed for.

Now granted you can hold diplomatic sessions in other stations, spread it out among the cluster. But don't simply dismiss the station as an irrelevant hunk of metal. You really shouldn't underestimate the value it has as a symbol for everyone and to what it says about your organisation.

For a lot of people what CONCORD does is utterly invisible. The cold war between the Empires is still as it was before, with the militias doing their work, nothing has been resolved in there. The tensions between the Empires are still high. The Elder fleet won because they called your bluff, instead of being worried and afraid of your ships they attacked and there wasn't a thing you could do to stop them. If the Empires reach a point they get fed up with the eternal back and forth of territory the militias are conquering there is nothing you will be able to do. But again it is true, diplomacy can be done elsewhere.

Pirate organisations still run around as free and powerful as before, in some cases they even got stronger. Some going so far to actively challenging CONCORD. You call those attacks unimportant an immaterial, and they very well might be, but it doesn't look like that to everyone else, it looks more like you either don't care, or can't do anything about it.

We Capsuleers are still the same handful we've been always been and likely always will be. We will keep you on your toes and challenge you, try to break the rules that shouldn't be broken in ever more inventive ways with the occasional victory.

So for most people CONCORD appears stagnant or worse incompetent, the fact that your famous HQ has been in it's rather ruined state for years only reinforces that thought. The opinions being expressed, here and in similar discussions about this very subject in the past, seem to point to that sentiment being widespread. Nobody is even bothering to clean the up the surrounding debris field that is a navigational hazard at best, a danger to other structures and planets in the Yulai system at worst. Even the safety of people who still are working there is questionable. The superstructure of the arm is clearly bent due to extreme forces applied to it and the hull is riddled with holes. The amount of closed bulkheads, airlocks and forcefields required just to ensure it isn't leaking life-support like a sieve has to be putting serious strains on the systems.

The people in uniforms who are operating your vessels, they come from the Empires, joining you to help build a better future and to maintain the law. If this outward appearance takes root in the population, your recruitment will dwindle, and with it your ability to uphold your mandate.

Now even in the best circumstance nobody is expecting that Yulai IX will be restored within a short time span. And perhaps we are wrong, perhaps it's a wrong perspective for us to have of your organisation, but it exists and it is growing. When you investigated Federation security, how many voices were saying CONCORD had no basis to make judgements considering their own inabilities? CONCORD is a fine institution and a mighty organisation, but everyone needs to do a bit of PR from time to time, preferably of the good kind. This could be a good way to do it that doesn't involve having to divulge information about forwards bases or operations that could jeopardise your security.

In just a few months, we'll reach the 5 year anniversary as it were, it may not be a priority, but five years of doing absolutely nothing about it, even if it was just cleaning up the debris, seems just a tad too neglectful.

That is good to know.

Out of curiosity, is PR part of your job too ?

A very rare skill? You haven't had much experience with politicians have you?

As for your answers. (oh yes, here I go again) If you want to speak about allocating your budget for better things, in the past five years the biggest rise in expenditures you've had, as far as I can tell, is in the amount of isk you pay to Capsuleers for taking out the "minor" Sansha incursions that you yourself are not worried or concerned about. So much for giving a gesture of security. We'll let Capsuleers do the security work because we can't be bothered and pay them for it. There are bigger concerns we need to deal with, to bad nobody knows what they are. And CONCORD doesn't break a sweat paying those amounts which makes me wonder where that money went before incursions. I'd say your budget is far bigger than you'd like to admit.

Also despite certain increases in expenses, the revenues you get have gone up as well in that five year period. At the same time the amount of stations you own has been the same. The CONCORD fleets in highsec and low sec seem to remain at the exact same levels, meaning that operational costs for maintenance and replacements of ships and your hidden shipyards would be the same as it has been.

Now I'm not a CONCORD accountant so I don't know the exact figures you are dealing with, but if you 're going to raise providing a gesture of security as being more important and budget concerns as an argument for not doing it you might want to point out exactly where all of your budget is disappearing to and what gestures of security you are doing now you weren't doing five years ago. Because all you've done is again reinforce that CONCORD doesn't appear to be doing anything except being utterly stagnant. If you've been building a fleet to tackle the Sansha problem at the source or something, well then good, fantastic even and I'd agree, but again it's invisible.

CONCORD has taken on the size of becoming a small Empire in its own right, and we've all heard the other Empires spin about stories to cover themselves for their failings and problems with corruption. So forgive us if we've become rather cynical after hearing the same excuse for five years. If the station is that unimportant why not just decommission it and use the extra budget it gives on those important issues. It just seems that there is more going on than simply budget concerns.

I know this must seem as an assault towards you and the Assembly and perhaps rather unfair to do it over this particular issue, but there have been many things people have asked CONCORD about and we get the same standard reply, it's not important we have other tasks and concerns to deal with. I get it you don't owe us any explanations, not to us nor the Empires. But issues like these keep getting raised and every time it seems to end up reflecting badly on you and one day it could end up costing you, which is the last thing New Eden needs.

While I agree that CONCORD isn't exactly popular I still think a lot of people are more than glad they are out there trying to uphold those laws as best as possible and support them in it. And honestly don't underestimate image. Providing a certain image and repeating it often enough is all some of the Empires required to get their population on board with acts of war against an other. The Elder fleet has left CONCORD with the image that they are not invulnerable and were in fact quite easy to disable when it came right down to it.

The Sansha incursion in Yulai that faced a massive Capsuleer response and only a minor CONCORD one and was able to complete its objective reinforced that image. And since then nothing has been done to reverse it. That is not a good position for the organisation that is only thing that prevents all out war to be in. The others may just get idea of their own. And even if they'd fail, they'd do plenty of damage in trying.

Additional note:
CONCORD wants to uphold the law but in this way they are practically inviting others to come and take shots at them and make their life more difficult. CONCORD is at it's core a reactionary force yes, but it wouldn't hurt them to do some small efforts to ensure they don't need to react as much.

After Vak' Atioth nobody in their right mind even thought of challenging the Jove, even to this day with all the advancements we've made people are still weary. Projecting an image of power earns you respect among Empires and Capsuleers to the point they leave you alone, having a mangled station as your HQ doesn't quite achieve that.

It was indeed Captain Katla. And not a large part of the fleet was sacrificed to destroy this station, most part was used in the illegal invasion of the Empire that followed. It was Empress Jamyl the one that took down most of that fleet singlehandedly. Not CONCORD.

I stand corrected then.

I mentioned some of this in the discussion on the rather amusing (some would say ridiculous; I've seen enough it's amusing) notion to fully and openly audit CONCORD.

Bottom line: CONCORD failed in YC 110.

Okay, that happens. In CONCORD's case, I'm assessing it as a rather nasty intelligence failure (likey because of complacent analysts, possibly even field agents) combined with a long-planned (and thus extremely well-prepared and thoroughly reconnaissanced) attack. It happens. Yes, CONCORD managed to effectively gut the forces that went against them that day. But it was a win for the Elder Fleet. Their goal was to neutralize CONCORD and tie-up/immobolize their forces.

They succeeded beautfully in that goal. Thus, Strategic (and Major) Victory for the Elder Fleet. They knew, going in, that very few--if any--of them would be coming back out. They were facing off against CONCORD with tech that is arguably 'inferior' to that (in certain aspects) of the other 'Active Four' (the 'Four' being Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, and Minmatar)...let alone CONCORD. (I don't argue either side of the inferiority opinion. Their tech works well enought for tactical parity.) Yet CONCORD--with superior tech and as much force as they could amass in their place of most strength...lost.

Yes, their enemy was prepared and effectively countered. It happens to everyone (ask any 'Zero-Zone' Capsuleer 0.0/Wormhole Corp/Alliance/Coalition). But the difference is, where any of the 'Active Four' or Capsuleer 'Organization' (or even individual capsuleers) would have rallied with stunning speed, mustered what forces they could, and fought (a holding action, pursuit, or, if sufficient reserves were on hand, 'cried havoc and let slip the fleets of war')...CONCORD apparently panicked.

Now, I understand that CONCORD's central Command, Control, Communications, and Intelligence network was off-line. And that--for all intesive purposes--they had just been "sucker-punched in the crotch". (And then "kicked hard while they were down".) I truly understand having it all come apart in a sudden, completely blind-siding blast of violent, furious death and destruction. I've seen it, personally (if not in this particular guise in this specific reality), to not fully appreciate just what the effects of that are. CONCORD, however, hasvery good contingency plans for such things. And they train in them.

Yet, despite still having functioal ships that could have very easily used the stargates to start spreading the message and gathering every last CONCORD vessel in order to hunt down the perpetrators...CONCORD dithered and the Inner Council panicked. Point of fact, the Inner Council was so panicked that they ran to a planetary surface--still in a single group--instead of splitting up in available ships, rallying their forces personally, and both fulfilling CONCORD's duties and demonstrating why NO ONE attacked CONCORD. Instead, Jamyl (she of the suspicious resurrection) had to do it for them. (Okay, she did it--proudly--for her Empire and herself--and the Amarr Empire needed both--but the basic meaning stands.) (And I respect Jamyl, I really do. Clever, resourceful, and scarily competent at the 'long game'.)

Okay, so the shock to CONCORD's collective 'system' was worse than predicted, and the plans took longer to implement. (I'm assessing that several members of the Inner Council wanted decisive action, and several were scared out of their ever-loving minds. Not even saying the two groups didn't mix...but Inner Council deadlock could help explain the lack of immediate response beyond that of ships' Commanders using intitiative to gather CONCORD's forces.) Still, CONCORD not repairing its 'central station'...

...That's not just 'budgetary management'. In this Cluster, not fixing such a symbol is outright admitting impotence and weakness...whether CONCORD intends to, or (most likely) not. When other organizations get hit like that, they do their best to rebuild and project strength. Now, yes, the Malkanen V Station still has a Nyx 'uncoventionally' docked with it and severe damage. However, Ishukone has nowhere near the resources of CONCORD. And, as evidenced by this very thread, Capsuleers (Zero-Zoners, no less) have offered signficant resources to restore the the CONCORD Bureau at Yulai IX. And Zero-Zoners have more resources than most imagine...just look at the kind of equipment they burn through in the course of an 'average' war in their 'home turf', beyond CONCORD's laws. (Also, the reason that Capsuleers haven't set up major stations out in the Zero-Zones likely has a great deal to do with the fact that CONCORD hasn't released the plans and technology to build them to Capsuleers.)

The Yulai Graveyards are an appropriate monument and warning. Letting the Yulai IX Station--a well-known and relatively unique place in the Cluster--continue to be in a damaged state is just 'putting blood in the water'. It's a statement of weakness and apathy.

And then CONCORD was infiltrated, then attacked, by Sansha's Nation. Again, a 'long game'...and, again, a severe failure on the part of CONCORD Intelligence. The infiltration, possibly justifiable. The minimal CONCORD response to a second attack on the center of their strenght? Completely unforgiveable...and a sign that CONCORD is failing in their duties. Of course, it may very well be worse.

Just how much intelligence/information about CONCORD-standarized technology (extensively utilized across the Cluster by everyone except the Jove, and the entire foundation--and majority--of capsuleer equipment) did Sansha's Nation gain from their infiltration and hacks of CONCORD. How likely is it that the incursions are not 'minor', but that--despite the effects on Capsuleers--the effects on CONCORD are worse?