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NPC AI hurting solo pvp.
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Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#81 - 2013-01-24 15:57:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
Paikis wrote:
The NPC rats will chose to swap to the attacker every time though, due to their hate of EWAR (scram+web). The Tengu could have been in that site killing NPCs for half an hour, and the second you turn a scram on, the rats will swap to you.

This could maybe use some tweaking. Perhaps make scrams and webs, or even just long points immune to this kind of hate?

Can't hold your target down without a point.
Using a point will guarantee you get agro 100% of the time.

Seems to actively discourage ganking.


This is working as intended, it's meant to stop PvPers from getting the "easy gank kill, and actually make them work for it.

Too many kill boards are littered with gank kills from NPC help. I am glad this system is in place as it will help separate the Noob and cowardly / unskilled PvPers who can't win a fair fight and must pick from the bottom of the barrel to inflate their killboards from doing just that.

If you want to pvp, then friken PVP, stop shooting targets who have very little chance of fighting you. It's cowardly, unprofessional, and makes you look like a moron bottom feeding parasite who can't fend for himself.

I would not recruit Pvpers to my corp who have a track record of Killing mining ships and ratters, because you all are worthless unskilled PvPers who would do nothing but drag My alliance down.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#82 - 2013-01-24 16:05:24 UTC
This is funny. It really is.

After all the times PvE pilots were told to fit a tank, or compromise their fittings to allow for some possibility that they might encounter unplanned PvP engagements... we get to now suggest the reverse is also true.

Dear gankers,

Please consider fitting your PvP attack craft in a manner consistent with surviving an NPC encounter, since you seem to insist on engaging during fights where they are involved.
As a separate option, perhaps you could send the NPC a chat request, and ask if they will let you help them.
(In the event they ignore you, you can still fit your ship as a fall back option)

Happy Piloting!

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#83 - 2013-01-24 16:41:30 UTC
Bydla wrote:
Chandaris wrote:
No no no

you shouldn't be able to bust billion isk PVE t3's running 10/10's in a ****** t1 frig. If you can't hunt them down in a properly tanked ship, GTFO. Sansha hates everybody equally.



You can't kill a tengu in a tech 1, if it's not really dumb or afk. You can hunt them, get a point and wait for friends, maybe. But why in the name of god all the npcs switch to you? If a rifter is a bigger threat than you tengu, well.. gratz, every pvp newbie is better at EVE than your stupid tengu.

This is a thread about solo pvp/carebear killers saying that the npc is a little bit TOO crazy, and carebears saying it's ok, so they can hold against a good pvp ship and than say : LOL NOOB in local, of course.
And I'm pretty sure every damn carebear is mad at npc changes too, because of different triggers/problem with tank,gank ships in fleet etc.


No Carebears arnt mad, they just think Pirate tears are funny in local...

Im a pvper and well.... So do I. Learn to fit your ship you friken noob, and stop expecting a free kill, this is Eve not duckhunt.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#84 - 2013-01-24 18:46:08 UTC
Roderick Grey wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:


You don't need CCP to make rats help you killing raters, you need friends to help you kill the rater or provide you some reps.

There's no problem with those rats, those are fine.



Thank you for agreeing with me that the rat AI changes have affected my ability to solo pvp.



They don't, you just can't or don't want to adapt.

Why in hell you should be able to come in to whatever site, need no tank but full gank and fingers in the nose kill the ratter being already punished by rats?
He's already fitting a tank so you should, why rats shouldn't change their agro when if those were players they would?

If something I believe for once this new AI system brings everyone at the same level, brainless rater and brainless kilmail farmer.

You know you can also graveyard camp gates and stations, just change your tactics, adapt yourself or find another friend to fly with.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#85 - 2013-01-25 06:29:36 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Roderick Grey wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:


You don't need CCP to make rats help you killing raters, you need friends to help you kill the rater or provide you some reps.

There's no problem with those rats, those are fine.



Thank you for agreeing with me that the rat AI changes have affected my ability to solo pvp.



They don't, you just can't or don't want to adapt.

Why in hell you should be able to come in to whatever site, need no tank but full gank and fingers in the nose kill the ratter being already punished by rats?
He's already fitting a tank so you should, why rats shouldn't change their agro when if those were players they would?

If something I believe for once this new AI system brings everyone at the same level, brainless rater and brainless kilmail farmer.

You know you can also graveyard camp gates and stations, just change your tactics, adapt yourself or find another friend to fly with.


Actually no, the ratter isn't fitting a pvp tank or a point or even a warp core stab.

I feel like most carebears are complaining about how one-sided it is when we're on grid with them without taking into consideration how difficult it CAN be to get on grid with them.

Guess how easy it is to stop a ganker killing you, look in local.

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#86 - 2013-01-25 06:44:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
Roderick Grey wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Roderick Grey wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:


You don't need CCP to make rats help you killing raters, you need friends to help you kill the rater or provide you some reps.

There's no problem with those rats, those are fine.



Thank you for agreeing with me that the rat AI changes have affected my ability to solo pvp.



They don't, you just can't or don't want to adapt.

Why in hell you should be able to come in to whatever site, need no tank but full gank and fingers in the nose kill the ratter being already punished by rats?
He's already fitting a tank so you should, why rats shouldn't change their agro when if those were players they would?

If something I believe for once this new AI system brings everyone at the same level, brainless rater and brainless kilmail farmer.

You know you can also graveyard camp gates and stations, just change your tactics, adapt yourself or find another friend to fly with.


Actually no, the ratter isn't fitting a pvp tank or a point or even a warp core stab.

I feel like most carebears are complaining about how one-sided it is when we're on grid with them without taking into consideration how difficult it CAN be to get on grid with them.

Guess how easy it is to stop a ganker killing you, look in local.



Oh its quite easy to stop a ganker these days now that the pvp system is actualy "Balanced" and not one sided giving the Ganker every advantage and the Victim none.

But you noob Terrorists never did have the skill to fight people who could actually shoot back at you, so I am not surprised to see your tears here and hey I rejoice at them :D because they are fapping funny. Now you know how all those care bears felt all the times you ganked them and they could do nothing to stop you.

Just do us all a favor and quit Eve, 10 more will take your place and maybe they wont whine as much a be a little more honorable and worthy of the title of PvPer..
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#87 - 2013-01-25 06:49:39 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:


Oh its quite easy to stop a ganker these days now that the pvp system is actualy "Balanced" and not one sided giving the Ganker every advantage and the Victim none.

But you noob Terrorists never did have the skill to fight people who could actually shoot back at you, so I am not surprised to see your tears here and hey I rejoice at them :D because they are fapping funny. Now you know how all those care bears felt all the times you ganked them and they could do nothing to stop you.


The second you start calling people "noob terrorists" is the second your argument loses credibility, not looking up somebody's killboard before trying to put a label on them hurts it as-well.

But thank you for ignoring the valid point I made and going back to the argument atleast 6 people have been barking in this thread that a PvE fit ship should have assistance from the NPCs they're there to hurt.

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#88 - 2013-01-25 06:55:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
Roderick Grey wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:


Oh its quite easy to stop a ganker these days now that the pvp system is actualy "Balanced" and not one sided giving the Ganker every advantage and the Victim none.

But you noob Terrorists never did have the skill to fight people who could actually shoot back at you, so I am not surprised to see your tears here and hey I rejoice at them :D because they are fapping funny. Now you know how all those care bears felt all the times you ganked them and they could do nothing to stop you.


The second you start calling people "noob terrorists" is the second your argument loses credibility, not looking up somebody's killboard before trying to put a label on them hurts it as-well.

But thank you for ignoring the valid point I made and going back to the argument atleast 6 people have been barking in this thread that a PvE fit ship should have assistance from the NPCs they're there to hurt.


1. Lol the fact you think a KB means jack crap in this game is Hilarious and shows what a Noob to PvP you truly are. KB's can be buffered and bought, they mean nothing in the larger picture.

And I like most people post on an alt for the forums.

2. No one is saying NPC's should help anyone, Were saying NPCs should attack EVERYONE, and currently they do (Including the Ganker), So I see no issue with this system.
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#89 - 2013-01-25 06:59:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Roderick Grey
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Roderick Grey wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:


Oh its quite easy to stop a ganker these days now that the pvp system is actualy "Balanced" and not one sided giving the Ganker every advantage and the Victim none.

But you noob Terrorists never did have the skill to fight people who could actually shoot back at you, so I am not surprised to see your tears here and hey I rejoice at them :D because they are fapping funny. Now you know how all those care bears felt all the times you ganked them and they could do nothing to stop you.


The second you start calling people "noob terrorists" is the second your argument loses credibility, not looking up somebody's killboard before trying to put a label on them hurts it as-well.

But thank you for ignoring the valid point I made and going back to the argument atleast 6 people have been barking in this thread that a PvE fit ship should have assistance from the NPCs they're there to hurt.


1. Lol the fact you think a KB means jack crap in this game is Hilarious and shows what a Noob to PvP you truly are. KB's can be buffered and bought, they mean nothing in the larger picture.

And I like most people post on an alt for the forums.

2. No one is saying NPC's should help anyone, Were saying NPCs should attack EVERYONE, and currently they do I see no issue with this system.


You're saying I don't have the skill to shoot people that shoot back, my KB proves you wrong.

And NPC's don't shoot everyone, I have never had NPCs assist me in an anom against a pve ship post patch.

But please keep calling me a noob and embarrassing yourself in a discussion about spaceship AI.

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#90 - 2013-01-25 07:04:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
Roderick Grey wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Roderick Grey wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:


Oh its quite easy to stop a ganker these days now that the pvp system is actualy "Balanced" and not one sided giving the Ganker every advantage and the Victim none.

But you noob Terrorists never did have the skill to fight people who could actually shoot back at you, so I am not surprised to see your tears here and hey I rejoice at them :D because they are fapping funny. Now you know how all those care bears felt all the times you ganked them and they could do nothing to stop you.


The second you start calling people "noob terrorists" is the second your argument loses credibility, not looking up somebody's killboard before trying to put a label on them hurts it as-well.

But thank you for ignoring the valid point I made and going back to the argument atleast 6 people have been barking in this thread that a PvE fit ship should have assistance from the NPCs they're there to hurt.


1. Lol the fact you think a KB means jack crap in this game is Hilarious and shows what a Noob to PvP you truly are. KB's can be buffered and bought, they mean nothing in the larger picture.

And I like most people post on an alt for the forums.

2. No one is saying NPC's should help anyone, Were saying NPCs should attack EVERYONE, and currently they do I see no issue with this system.


You're saying I don't have the skill to shoot people that shoot back, my KB proves you wrong.

And NPC's don't shoot everyone, I have never had NPCs assist me post patch.

But please keep calling me a noob and embarrassing yourself in a discussion about spaceship AI.


1. All your Killboard proves is that you Bought a character with a decent kilboard....

I mean really... The way you talk is like "Me want kill for free, Why NPC's bad to me and shoot me Wha wha wha, I can't kill PvEer's now because rats shoot me Wha wha wha...."

There is no way your not a new player. And if you are a vet...... well the Eve Community should Mourn because the mental state of the Vet is seriously dropping into Senility.... And who knows which one of us will be next..... THAT would be a sad day indeed....

2. You probably haven't seen an NPC retarget the Ratter because your to busy warping out so you don't die. I mean they WERE shooting the rattr until you showed up and present the AI with a shiny new target to shoot at.
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#91 - 2013-01-25 07:06:09 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:


All your Killboard proves is that you Bought a character with a decent kilboard....

I mean really... The way you talk is like "Me want kill for free, Why NPC's bad to me and shoot me Wha wha wha, I can't kill PvEer's now because rats shoot me Wha wha wha...."

There is no way your not a new player. And if you are a vet...... well the Eve Community should Morn because the mental state of the Vet is seriously dropping into Senility.... And who knows which one of us will be next..... THAT would be a sad day indeed....


Ok, can we resume some intelligent discussion please?

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#92 - 2013-01-25 07:11:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
Roderick Grey wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:


All your Killboard proves is that you Bought a character with a decent kilboard....

I mean really... The way you talk is like "Me want kill for free, Why NPC's bad to me and shoot me Wha wha wha, I can't kill PvEer's now because rats shoot me Wha wha wha...."

There is no way your not a new player. And if you are a vet...... well the Eve Community should Morn because the mental state of the Vet is seriously dropping into Senility.... And who knows which one of us will be next..... THAT would be a sad day indeed....


Ok, can we resume some intelligent discussion please?



1. You should know I have nothing against Noobs or new players, to be honest (And no offense to the vets) I prefer them simply because they are easier to train and are generally more loyal.

2. Your OP however is not Valid. In any since of the word BUT, I tell you what, answer me this:


** Why should the rats "Not" shoot you and allow you an easy kill against an already damaged and weakened target?


I mean Eve does have a No free lunch policy and I fully support this where PvP is concerned.
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#93 - 2013-01-25 07:23:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Roderick Grey
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:


** Why should the rats "Not" shoot you and allow you an easy kill against an already damaged and weakened target?


From a logical stand-point why would faction rats target something not agressing them over something that is? I do alot of ratter ganking up in Guristas space where I actually have some decent (corp) standing with them, it just doesn't make any sense for them to prioritize me over someone with significantly more standing than the person who's actually agressing them.

Solo roamers provide content, black ops drops and AFK cloakers are a solution to the AI issue but they hardly provide any entertainment for most involved, CCP should encourage player-created content and by proxy encourage solo roaming, AI affects that.

Ratters are there to generate isk in nullsec, and as we all know Eve is built around risk and reward, me burning 18 jumps in a hurricane through hostile nullsec and through enemy HQ systems to roam popular ratting areas in enemy territory, is me risking my ship for the reward of a possible ratter/other idiot kill. However ratters undock their ships in friendly space and rat in friendly space, to make 50/hour with ease, and all they have to do to avoid any risk is simply looking at intel channels and local. They're not supposed to hold their own against a Pvp fit ship, it doesn't work like that, the next thing you'll hear is miners claiming that asteroids should shield them from suicide gankers.

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#94 - 2013-01-25 07:36:22 UTC
Roderick Grey wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:


** Why should the rats "Not" shoot you and allow you an easy kill against an already damaged and weakened target?


From a logical stand-point why would faction rats target something not agressing them over something that is?


Because their rats. They target everything regardless of standings or context.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Mag's
Azn Empire
#95 - 2013-01-25 08:22:09 UTC
Roderick Grey wrote:
From a logical stand-point why would faction rats target something not agressing them over something that is? I do alot of ratter ganking up in Guristas space where I actually have some decent (corp) standing with them, it just doesn't make any sense for them to prioritize me over someone with significantly more standing than the person who's actually agressing them.

Solo roamers provide content, black ops drops and AFK cloakers are a solution to the AI issue but they hardly provide any entertainment for most involved, CCP should encourage player-created content and by proxy encourage solo roaming, AI affects that.

Ratters are there to generate isk in nullsec, and as we all know Eve is built around risk and reward, me burning 18 jumps in a hurricane through hostile nullsec and through enemy HQ systems to roam popular ratting areas in enemy territory, is me risking my ship for the reward of a possible ratter/other idiot kill. However ratters undock their ships in friendly space and rat in friendly space, to make 50/hour with ease, and all they have to do to avoid any risk is simply looking at intel channels and local. They're not supposed to hold their own against a Pvp fit ship, it doesn't work like that, the next thing you'll hear is miners claiming that asteroids should shield them from suicide gankers.
Well NPC's look upon you as a bigger threat and decide to remove you first.

You can adapt to this change, you just need the time to learn how.

Personally I like the change, as it adds more risk.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#96 - 2013-01-25 09:32:12 UTC
Roderick Grey wrote:
The second you start calling people "noob terrorists" is the second your argument loses credibility, not looking up somebody's killboard before trying to put a label on them hurts it as-well.
But Roderick.... your KB is shiite dude. :-/ (Trying to use a KB to support an argument is generally a terrible idea.)

The glory days of easy ganks are over, and the new AI is here to stay. Just accept it and adapt. Use a ship with a tank to gank ratters / anom runners. Loki or Proteus can be good choices depending on your flavor of rats. But there are cheaper alternatives as well.
Roderick Grey
Koenigsbergers
#97 - 2013-01-25 09:49:48 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
Roderick Grey wrote:
The second you start calling people "noob terrorists" is the second your argument loses credibility, not looking up somebody's killboard before trying to put a label on them hurts it as-well.
But Roderick.... your KB is shiite dude. :-/ (Trying to use a KB to support an argument is generally a terrible idea.)

The glory days of easy ganks are over, and the new AI is here to stay. Just accept it and adapt. Use a ship with a tank to gank ratters / anom runners. Loki or Proteus can be good choices depending on your flavor of rats. But there are cheaper alternatives as well.


My KB is terribad, but it still disproves his statement.

“We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.” - Special needs division of Fcon.
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#98 - 2013-01-25 12:34:11 UTC
came for AFK mission runner Tears... left with Solo PvP'er tears.... delighted and also slightly confused.

on another note, OMG there NPC's grow a pair will you please!
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#99 - 2013-01-25 13:07:39 UTC
So this basically boils down to the fact that you failed to take into account that the NPCs now switch targets and almost got your ship exploded. Nothing wrong with the NPC AI. The NPCs now see everyone as a target and will switch targets based on what is the best target. Best target can mean you are in range, have bigger sig radius, have more dps, have less tank, etc. The ratters know this, and will now probably stay in sites longer because people like you who do not realize the consequences of the new NPC AI will also get aggro and they can use that to thier advantage. Hell, I've seen players in PVP kiting Lokis now sit in sites waiting on somebody like you to come along, because they know the aggro will switch and then they can catch you and melt you. Bottomline: Change your tactics.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#100 - 2013-01-25 13:36:26 UTC
Roderick Grey wrote:


Ratters are there to generate isk in nullsec, and as we all know Eve is built around risk and reward, me burning 18 jumps in a hurricane through hostile nullsec and through enemy HQ systems to roam popular ratting areas in enemy territory, is me risking my ship for the reward of a possible ratter/other idiot kill. However ratters undock their ships in friendly space and rat in friendly space, to make 50/hour with ease, and all they have to do to avoid any risk is simply looking at intel channels and local. They're not supposed to hold their own against a Pvp fit ship, it doesn't work like that, the next thing you'll hear is miners claiming that asteroids should shield them from suicide gankers.



Yeah... see...

That ratter is out there ratting because he wants to rat. Maybe he likes making ISK, maybe he likes watching spaceships shoot eachother... does not really matter. What matters is that he **SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DOCK AND WATCH HIS SHIP SPIN JUST BECAUSE YOU FEEL LIKE HE SHOULD, OR ELSE DIE** This statement is true of all carebear activities, be it mining, ratting, missioning, or making freaking can art. Bears don't call it a win when they get to a station to dock, they call it a win when they get to finish their mission, rat, or smiley face made of cans. There is no possiblity at the moment of that happening, if a bear is hunted, he must dock or safe spot, because fighting in a PvE fit ship is at best a draw that sends the pirate running temporarily.

Non-consensual pvp should cut both ways. You are forcing it on him, he should be able to force it on you. You should never be able to enter into a fight with 100% chance of victory, with only overconfidence being your sole weakness causing a ship loss.

I happen to agree with your initial point--- rats should not all immediatly aggro a new ship. I am fine with some of them splitting off to get you, but all seems a bit broke. This is true for more than just ratter vs. mouth breathing baby eater. I often fly a logistics toting failure of a command ship because I like bringing friends new to the game with me in missions, and while I have no problem with them being shot the way the AI is now makes that a fairly lethal proposition for their first couple of weeks.