EVE General Discussion

Lose a hulk recently?

I would bet it's "maliciously". How can it be bad to explode internet spaceships in a internet spaceship pvp game?

Anyway, if you want an answer to your question you need to file a petition. In contrast to popular believe, the forum will only get you attention, not knowledge.

So, goons blowing up ships in Eve: Online is now considered griefing?

What the goons are doing is denial of assets. They are picking on ice miners in general.

If they started a campaign against one specific miner, an argument could be made for griefing... maybe.

But, as repugnant as it is for most right thinking gamers, it's well within the rules to do what they are doing.

Mr Epeen

When it is co-ordinated and malicious yes imo. I'm asking the question tbh. Is it or should it be?

It's not random ganks, it's not war-decs and nor is it 0 v 0 gudfites.

It is DELIBERATELY and CONSISTENTLY interfering with the average empire players enjoyment of the game.

As a G**N, I'm surprised you haven't said "Yes, that's what we do..."

No, but “maliciously interfering with the game experience of others” is: killing people for gain is not an interference with the game experience — it is the game experience. What that sentence means is that you are not allowed to keep people from playing the game; that you cannot target certain individuals and harass them for the sole purpose of keeping them from logging in.
There are plenty of things that can be considered griefing — the goon campaigns never qualify due to their very broad scope and speculative effects. They target activities and possibly locations, not people, much less individuals.

They're just causing general havoc (or well… trying to, at least) and having fun (and profit) in the process, all of which is entirely legal. In fact, one might even say that they're playing EVE in its purest form. Again, they're not interfering with the game experience — they provide it — and it is trivially easy for the supposed targets to no longer be targets and still play the game. That fact alone completely obliterates any attempt to label it as griefing.
It is pretty clear as it is. You're just not fully in tune with what counts as malicious around here.

Continuously deccing, ganking, camping, abusing and harassing a single person for no reason is griefing — going after anyone who does/flies/lives in X is not. They're not being targeted specifically, and can simply do/fly/live something or somewhere else.

Taking advantage of quirks in various mechanics to prey on people who have not yet had the chance to grasp those mechanics (aka newbie griefing) is griefing — going after people who have come so far as to sit in T2 ships and mine and refine a complicated resource such as ice is not.

Causing server overloads (or even crashes) so other people can't even get in the game, or have trouble loading it, for what almost amounts to hardware reasons could conceivably be considered griefing, but that is covered by a whole slew of other rules as well and isn't particularly relevant here anyway.

I'd really blame game mechanics on that one.


Also, the best part is just about anyone is using their alts to do the ganking while they leave their main accounts down in Delve where we're still fighting, so it's not like we're even 100% concentrating on the highsec stuff in the first place.

They are in EVE. There is long standing precedent for this: if you can demonstrate that you have a reasonable in-game motive for what you're doing, then it doesn't matter if it makes the victim abloobloohoo into his coffee all day long. Goons can credibly claim to be trying to corner the Gallente ice products market to their own advantage. Case dismissed.

In case you haven't noticed, EVE does in fact allow non-consensual PvP. If campaigns were to be forbidden purely because the losing side was :sadface: about it, then no 0.0 war could ever happen.

All that's happening here is that some people in hi-sec are getting a taste - a very, very mild, attenuated taste - of what it's like to fight an actual campaign in EVE. I can think of no reason whatsoever that hi-sec players as a whole should be totally immune to campaigns of organised violence. The rules of hi-sec are the same as they always were: nothing has changed, no rules are being broken. They're merely being applied in an organised, systematic way. The only thing that has changed is that these people have been left to endlessly make risk-free ISK for so long that they think it's not just normal but something they're entitled to, and now that false sense of entitlement has been taken away.

You consent to PvP when you undock your ships, whether you accept this or not. All the fuss is merely the startling realisation that this applies to ice-miners as much as it does to anyone else. There is no entitlement to safety.

In fact it would be amazing if all of 0.0 rose up and decided to kill the carebears in highsec.
Arent there more in 0.0 than Empire? Theres more 0.0 space right?

Imo, there really shouldnt BE a griefing policy in this game as its nearly impossible to enforce