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Crime & Punishment

 
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James315 isnt going far enough

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dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#301 - 2013-01-18 10:38:33 UTC
Alana Charen-Teng wrote:
Embrace the Code - it is a source of Strength and Wisdom!


Don't believe the hype... it's just carebears shooting carebears, they tell you it's pvp to try an hide the fact it's just a sadomasochistic same-sex relationship.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Alana Charen-Teng
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#302 - 2013-01-18 14:02:37 UTC
dexington wrote:
Alana Charen-Teng wrote:
Embrace the Code - it is a source of Strength and Wisdom!


Don't believe the hype... it's just carebears shooting carebears, they tell you it's pvp to try an hide the fact it's just a sadomasochistic same-sex relationship.


What do you have against same-sex relationships?
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#303 - 2013-01-18 19:18:21 UTC
Silus Morde wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
[quote=Mira Robinson]
You are free to mine ore and mine ice all you like. You are also free to be ganked and bumped all WE like.

.
Didn't you just sum up the Game EVE? That 1 sentence is essentially the game - you do what you like and we do what we like. No need for Codes or extensive justifications. If you can scam people to pay for protection then do it, it's part of the game. But it is, after all, only a protection scam. Yes I do understand Saying this is anti-code and could make me a target. If so it's ok, I mine while watching the keyboard. I also rat while watching the keyboard. I also can and do leave systems where I am harrassed. I also respond to questions. None of it matters beacuse the only code is: Pay us to leave you alone. No. Without an element of Danger this game would bore me. In fact I came back to it because all other MMO's bore me, this one at least has danger - I could lose my ship to another player. I do only fly ships that I can afford to lose. If I lose a ship it is part of the game. I wish you well as far as getting rid of Bots, but actually see no difference betwen what you say and what any protection racket thug would say - you just try to add a religious fervour to it. The entertainment value is very high, I will grant you that. In the end it is just EVE players doing what they want. Those of you who feel it necessary to pay for protection - are you sure you are playing the right game? Thanks for letting me share.



Since you understand I'm not sure where you think this thread would concern you. Not to say it's any of your business or anything, by all means contribute!

But you are agreeing with what all of the NO say anyways. You are at your keyboard. Good! Now, pay 10mil isk or risk bump/gank.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#304 - 2013-01-18 19:22:30 UTC
Eyana Starstruck wrote:
Well you are free to pass judgement on non bot users however you see fit then why should I abide with the laws you obviously don't follow yourself?



Lawmakers adopt a really neat policy we all learned the hard way from our parents.

That policy is "do as I say not as I do".

How that applies to you is really up to you.

Since James315 is the Father of Highsec, it isn't up to him to lead by example, but to enforce the law. So pay 10mil or risk bump/gank.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#305 - 2013-01-18 19:24:54 UTC
Silus Morde wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Eyana Starstruck wrote:
Well you are free to pass judgement on non bot users however you see fit then why should I abide with the laws you obviously don't follow yourself?


If you had actually read the framework that James 315 has so kindly provided, non bot users are not exempt from the licensing requirements of the New Order, most (not all) of the people that are exploding are AFK, they're not playing the game, they're doing something else. The burden of proof is on the New Order in the case of the AFK players, and the proof is that they (the AFK) don't respond for several minutes and only do so when they come back to their PC to find themselves in a Med clone, only then does the "I have powerful friends in Null", "OMG I'm petitioning for griefing/exploiting", along with all the other meaningless threats and other foul mouthed abuse start from the people who got ganked.

So if I am mining and you question me and I answer in a quick manner you will go your way and leave me to mine in peace? Or will you then try to extort isk from me? Cause if it is the former I approve of your war on bots, however if it is the latter, well then I will politely say no. Not much into swearing or shredding tears, so I will leave that to the others. Fly safe either way.



If you answer that proves you are at the keyboard, you have the opportunity to pay the 10mil isk indulgence before being sent to your clone vat.

It's a courtesy. I'd accept it with a smile.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Agent Trask
Doomheim
#306 - 2013-01-19 20:37:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Agent Trask
Murk Paradox wrote:
[quote=Silus Morde]

If you answer that proves you are at the keyboard, you have the opportunity to pay the 10mil isk indulgence before being sent to your clone vat.

It's a courtesy. I'd accept it with a smile.


James 315 is far too generous. He allows some mining for free!

Answering the Questions Three by itself is good for a 24 hour indulgence.

Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.

www.minerbumping.com
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#307 - 2013-01-19 20:48:25 UTC
Agent Trask wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
[quote=Silus Morde]

If you answer that proves you are at the keyboard, you have the opportunity to pay the 10mil isk indulgence before being sent to your clone vat.

It's a courtesy. I'd accept it with a smile.


James 315 is for too generous. He allows some mining for free!

Answering the Questions Three by itself is good for a 24 hour indulgence.



Indeed! There is that as well!

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Heywood Djiblomi
Doomheim
#308 - 2013-01-20 14:45:29 UTC
I've read bits and pieces of various tear-filled threads, and indulged in the brilliance that is Miner Bumping, but I don't think I've seen the oft-cursed Mining Permit put into proper perspective (but if it has been illustrated this way, I apologize profusely for repetition):

The mining permit is not merely a simple permit. It is, for the at-the-keyboard miner, an investment. Now, do not be hasty in scoffing at the notion of it being an investment. The removal of the scourge of bots and the bot-aspirant players provides a direct BENEFIT to those who actively play the game by removing unfair competition and thus raising market prices, ultimately IMPROVING your bottom line. James315 and his New Order are here FOR the active miner, not AGAINST him, to tip the scales back in his favor.

Unfair competition? Absolutely so! Is it fair that the bot and the bot-aspirant receive the same income while doing virtually nothing as the active miner who is actually investing his/her time and energy? You are lying to yourself if you answer "YES". By enforcing The Code, the active miner will have EASIER access to asteroids that would otherwise have been stripped by the bot and the bot-aspirant. Less time FINDING equals more time MINING, which in turn equals MORE ISK/hour.

Raising market prices? Absolutely so! That is simple Economics 101. Less supply equals higher prices. More demand through more manufacturing (to replace exploded ships for both the New Order, and the bot and bot-aspirant -- should they wish to continue their deviant behavior) equals higher prices.

The revenues generated by permits (and by shareholder investments) are to compensate for losses incurred in the course of enforcing The Code. The 10M ISK you invest today will be returned to you many times over!
Eyana Starstruck
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#309 - 2013-01-20 16:33:51 UTC
You can not call that investment when investment means a willing donation of your money to a project you personally consider worthy, so no this is not and can not be called an investment. This is pure racketeering and extortion. People should have their own choice if they will or they will not participate in their project since they are all individuals with their own thoughts and moral.

That bot-aspirant is another made up silliness to justify blowing up ships and not giving enough time, or rather say not caring to give enough time, for a response. The only ships that should be destroyed are ships that get their orders from a program and not the player. Those "bot-aspirants" are not using any program to control their ship, each command is given by their own hand so they are at the keyboard, maybe they alt tab-ed to watch a movie or a soap opera or hell are watching a real opera it doesn't really matter, but they are there and they should not suffer the same fate of a program controlled ship.

If you are gonna argue they could talk to people, be included into the social life of eve, who are you to force them on how they should behave in eve community? Maybe they don't like talking, maybe they are a shy person and belong to a small community that is not always online so they would tab out to watch something else other than a beam hitting an asteroid.

Just like in real life none should be able to force you on how you will live your life, they can try and educate you on what you are doing is good or bad but ultimately decision should be yours, given the fact that your behavior and choices don't endanger lives of other people.
Heywood Djiblomi
Doomheim
#310 - 2013-01-20 17:44:25 UTC
Eyana Starstruck wrote:
Those "bot-aspirants" are not using any program to control their ship, each command is given by their own hand so they are at the keyboard, maybe they alt tab-ed...


...at which point they are NOT at the keyboard, as far as the EVE client and server are concerned (even if not literally). After all, does pressing F1 while alt-tabbed cycle stop/start a Strip Miner cycle?

Continuing:

Eyana Starstruck wrote:
...maybe they alt tab-ed to watch a movie or a soap opera or hell are watching a real opera it doesn't really matter, but they are there...


It is utterly baffling to me that someone would engage in (and PAY A SUBSCRIPTION FOR) an activity they find so utterly boring that they are compelled to Alt-Tab to fill the few minutes between targeting asteroids and starting the Strip Miners again (and remember we are talking about high-sec mining where the majority of the asteroids deplete in 2 cycles or less, not null where a single rock can fill a Mackinaw hold several times over). It feels like borderline masochism to me.

(And besides, running EVE on your WiFi-enabled laptop inside the operahouse is just rude - the sound of exploding AFK mining vessels would surely disrupt the performance. Smile)
Agent Trask
Doomheim
#311 - 2013-01-20 19:25:47 UTC
Heywood Djiblomi wrote:


(And besides, running EVE on your WiFi-enabled laptop inside the operahouse is just rude - the sound of exploding AFK mining vessels would surely disrupt the performance. Smile)


I think a full theater screening of 60 minutes of Agent Eunoli's videos, with miner's tears and stern warnings by Agents and Knights rendered in operatic song would make fine entertainment.


Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.

www.minerbumping.com
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#312 - 2013-01-20 19:47:13 UTC
Alana Charen-Teng wrote:
dexington wrote:
Alana Charen-Teng wrote:
Embrace the Code - it is a source of Strength and Wisdom!


Don't believe the hype... it's just carebears shooting carebears, they tell you it's pvp to try an hide the fact it's just a sadomasochistic same-sex relationship.


What do you have against same-sex relationships?


He doesn't like them queerosexuals

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Eyana Starstruck
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#313 - 2013-01-21 00:56:13 UTC
Heywood Djiblomi wrote:
Eyana Starstruck wrote:
Those "bot-aspirants" are not using any program to control their ship, each command is given by their own hand so they are at the keyboard, maybe they alt tab-ed...


...at which point they are NOT at the keyboard, as far as the EVE client and server are concerned (even if not literally). After all, does pressing F1 while alt-tabbed cycle stop/start a Strip Miner cycle?



They are still at the keyboard non the less so they do not qualify as being away from it.

Heywood Djiblomi wrote:


Eyana Starstruck wrote:
...maybe they alt tab-ed to watch a movie or a soap opera or hell are watching a real opera it doesn't really matter, but they are there...


It is utterly baffling to me that someone would engage in (and PAY A SUBSCRIPTION FOR) an activity they find so utterly boring that they are compelled to Alt-Tab to fill the few minutes between targeting asteroids and starting the Strip Miners again (and remember we are talking about high-sec mining where the majority of the asteroids deplete in 2 cycles or less, not null where a single rock can fill a Mackinaw hold several times over). It feels like borderline masochism to me.

(And besides, running EVE on your WiFi-enabled laptop inside the operahouse is just rude - the sound of exploding AFK mining vessels would surely disrupt the performance. Smile)


That is your opinion and you as anyone else are entitled to one however you do not have the right to abuse and extort players and forcing them to see things your way. You don't have that right in real life community nor should you have one in Eve online community.

If you can see Eve having so much more to offer to miners then by all means try to open their eyes trough peaceful projects such as making events where people can join in, participate, open debates and that would be a worthy cause, think of some ideas on how to make mining more interesting and share them with people on develop threads, like for example just saying 1st thing that poped onto my mind, when a miner clicks his strippers an additional window opens where he has to keep his mouse cursor on something and the closer he is to it the faster and better the yield.

If anything you could be honest and open about what you are trying to do instead of this hiding behind lies and false preachings.
Silus Morde
#314 - 2013-01-21 01:06:25 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Silus Morde wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
[quote=Mira Robinson]
You are free to mine ore and mine ice all you like. You are also free to be ganked and bumped all WE like.

.
Didn't you just sum up the Game EVE? That 1 sentence is essentially the game - you do what you like and we do what we like. No need for Codes or extensive justifications. If you can scam people to pay for protection then do it, it's part of the game. But it is, after all, only a protection scam. Yes I do understand Saying this is anti-code and could make me a target. If so it's ok, I mine while watching the keyboard. I also rat while watching the keyboard. I also can and do leave systems where I am harrassed. I also respond to questions. None of it matters beacuse the only code is: Pay us to leave you alone. No. Without an element of Danger this game would bore me. In fact I came back to it because all other MMO's bore me, this one at least has danger - I could lose my ship to another player. I do only fly ships that I can afford to lose. If I lose a ship it is part of the game. I wish you well as far as getting rid of Bots, but actually see no difference betwen what you say and what any protection racket thug would say - you just try to add a religious fervour to it. The entertainment value is very high, I will grant you that. In the end it is just EVE players doing what they want. Those of you who feel it necessary to pay for protection - are you sure you are playing the right game? Thanks for letting me share.



Since you understand I'm not sure where you think this thread would concern you. Not to say it's any of your business or anything, by all means contribute!

But you are agreeing with what all of the NO say anyways. You are at your keyboard. Good! Now, pay 10mil isk or risk bump/gank.

Plaing the game is to risk bump/gank , I have been bumped and ganked prior to the NO, and will be after it goes away. Part of the game. Be ever vigilant, have a good fit, and never fly a ship you cannot afford to lose. If you bump or gank me then I got bumped or ganked, the world goes on, the game continues... maybe next time I bump or gank you.. the dice are rolled sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. first you guys tell me to spy for you then you tell me to pay or get bumped. Does your left hand know your right hand? Do you know yourself? Is there, in fact, a spoon?

Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.
Silus Morde
#315 - 2013-01-21 01:07:46 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Silus Morde wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Eyana Starstruck wrote:
Well you are free to pass judgement on non bot users however you see fit then why should I abide with the laws you obviously don't follow yourself?


If you had actually read the framework that James 315 has so kindly provided, non bot users are not exempt from the licensing requirements of the New Order, most (not all) of the people that are exploding are AFK, they're not playing the game, they're doing something else. The burden of proof is on the New Order in the case of the AFK players, and the proof is that they (the AFK) don't respond for several minutes and only do so when they come back to their PC to find themselves in a Med clone, only then does the "I have powerful friends in Null", "OMG I'm petitioning for griefing/exploiting", along with all the other meaningless threats and other foul mouthed abuse start from the people who got ganked.

So if I am mining and you question me and I answer in a quick manner you will go your way and leave me to mine in peace? Or will you then try to extort isk from me? Cause if it is the former I approve of your war on bots, however if it is the latter, well then I will politely say no. Not much into swearing or shredding tears, so I will leave that to the others. Fly safe either way.



If you answer that proves you are at the keyboard, you have the opportunity to pay the 10mil isk indulgence before being sent to your clone vat.

It's a courtesy. I'd accept it with a smile.
I will refuse it with a smile, is there a spoon?

Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#316 - 2013-01-21 01:08:07 UTC
Eyana Starstruck wrote:
That is your opinion and you as anyone else are entitled to one however you do not have the right to abuse and extort players and forcing them to see things your way.


Funny you bring this up. While I never abuse people ingame, despite being frequently abused because I violenced a spaceship or stole some stuff. I do have the right to extort players & attempt to force them to see things my way. It's the nature of EVE.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Eyana Starstruck
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#317 - 2013-01-21 01:15:30 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Eyana Starstruck wrote:
That is your opinion and you as anyone else are entitled to one however you do not have the right to abuse and extort players and forcing them to see things your way.


Funny you bring this up. While I never abuse people ingame, despite being frequently abused because I violenced a spaceship or stole some stuff. I do have the right to extort players & attempt to force them to see things my way. It's the nature of EVE.


You have abused them the moment you attacked their spaceship and stole some of their stuff so they are reacting to your abuse with their own abuse. You have the right to extort and attempt to force people to see things your way in real life, so why don't you do it outside of the game as well?
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#318 - 2013-01-21 02:46:45 UTC
Eyana Starstruck wrote:
You have abused them the moment you attacked their spaceship and stole some of their stuff so they are reacting to your abuse with their own abuse.


So, by your logic, if I'm playing counterstrike and my squad stacks up, flashes the room with the hostages and executes a flawless breach, killing the OpFor in the process, I've abused the terrorist players?

Before you get all flustered, the answer is no. What I've done is play the game in accordance with the rules and in pursuit of the objective. Eve is different in that I can set my own objectives, rather than being limited to bombs, hostages and VIPs, making it much more interesting. Blowing up your ship falls firmly within the realm of pursuing the objective. Scamming, stealing, exorting, violencing your spaceship and generally going out of my way to subjugate you are part of the game, and therefore within the rules.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Kamden Line
Sovereign Citizen and other Tax Evasion Schemes
#319 - 2013-01-21 04:29:22 UTC
It's amazing how much drama James, godfather of high sec, has generated simply through publicizing the stuff Goon's Miniluv does every day. None of this is new at all.
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#320 - 2013-01-21 10:49:08 UTC
Eyana Starstruck wrote:
Those "bot-aspirants" are not using any program to control their ship, each command is given by their own hand so they are at the keyboard, maybe they alt tab-ed...

While the EVE Online client is not technically a bot, it is certainly a program controlling the ship, as the mining lasers continue to mine regardless of whether or not there is a human there. An AFK miner may not be a botter by CCP's definition, but they are certainly a bot-aspirant in that they make use of bot-like processes to harvest ice.