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Botting news exposed! Read all about it!

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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#141 - 2012-12-31 02:25:37 UTC
Fallacies wrote:
I felt a disturbance in the Force. Allow me to enlighten thee...

ad hominem
You attacked your opponent's character or personal traits in an attempt to undermine their argument. Ad hominem attacks can take the form of overtly attacking somebody, or more subtly casting doubt on their character or personal attributes as a way to discredit their argument. The result of an ad hom attack can be to undermine someone's case without actually having to engage with it.


Please try and post without the ad hominem fallacies.

*disappears as mysteriously has he appeared*
...whoa
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2012-12-31 02:25:54 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

Ok I have no idea what Access benefits are but I am sure the unemployment departments coffers are starting to run dry.


You've never been space poor, you are the 1% everyone hates the 1%.

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FDIC Agent
Doomheim
#143 - 2012-12-31 02:27:38 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Maybe he's discreetly trying to help them... to turn over a new non-botting leaf, of course :v:


Now that would be a story, rehabilitating botters. Yet instead we decide to give them a warning that the cops are coming Ugh.

A warning? If ccp was informed in early December like Riverini said, and then provided the full logs on the 26 th. It strikes me odd that so many of you that are buddies with the hbc are painting Riverini as the bad guy. Why? If Riverini is lying about giving ccp a heads up about it, then why hasn't ccp said he is lying? It is like you care more about Riverini being wrong than if botters are stopped.

You have to step back and realize that blue or not, if they are in fact botting, anyone involved needs to be punished.
Frying Doom
#144 - 2012-12-31 02:29:00 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Ok I have no idea what Access benefits are but I am sure the unemployment departments coffers are starting to run dry.


You've never been space poor, you are the 1% everyone hates the 1%.

I am space poor..

I do not have enough on me to buy a Titan.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#145 - 2012-12-31 02:29:01 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
FDIC Agent wrote:

A warning? If ccp was informed in early December like Riverini said, and then provided the full logs on the 26 th. It strikes me odd that so many of you that are buddies with the hbc are painting Riverini as the bad guy. Why? If Riverini is lying about giving ccp a heads up about it, then why hasn't ccp said he is lying? It is like you care more about Riverini being wrong than if botters are stopped.

You have to step back and realize that blue or not, if they are in fact botting, anyone involved needs to be punished.


Yes a warning, publishing "hey look botters" in a publicly viewable place before having any idea if CCP did anything is the same thing as going "hey guys I think CCP might be onto you." TL:DR don't do it.

E: I wouldn't be surprised if riverini lied to drum up views to his website but we won't hear because CCP does not publicly discuss account action. They state this repeatedly all over the forums and all of their documentation.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#146 - 2012-12-31 02:29:15 UTC
FDIC Agent wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Maybe he's discreetly trying to help them... to turn over a new non-botting leaf, of course :v:


Now that would be a story, rehabilitating botters. Yet instead we decide to give them a warning that the cops are coming Ugh.

A warning? If ccp was informed in early December like Riverini said, and then provided the full logs on the 26 th. It strikes me odd that so many of you that are buddies with the hbc are painting Riverini as the bad guy. Why? If Riverini is lying about giving ccp a heads up about it, then why hasn't ccp said he is lying? It is like you care more about Riverini being wrong than if botters are stopped.

You have to step back and realize that blue or not, if they are in fact botting, anyone involved needs to be punished.

Yeah, then the part where they get warning from a post on the forums, making it harder to catch and punish them....

It's ok though, obviously we blobbers are evil no matter what we do.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#147 - 2012-12-31 02:29:56 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
FDIC Agent wrote:

A warning? If ccp was informed in early December like Riverini said, and then provided the full logs on the 26 th. It strikes me odd that so many of you that are buddies with the hbc are painting Riverini as the bad guy. Why? If Riverini is lying about giving ccp a heads up about it, then why hasn't ccp said he is lying? It is like you care more about Riverini being wrong than if botters are stopped.

You have to step back and realize that blue or not, if they are in fact botting, anyone involved needs to be punished.


Yes a warning, publishing "hey look botters" in a publicly viewable place before having any idea if CCP did anything is the same thing as going "hey guys I think CCP might be onto you." TL:DR don't do it.

Next time I go to Jita I'll start a new thread for every local spammer I see, just so they can be sure to know we're ~onto them~

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#148 - 2012-12-31 02:31:06 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Next time I go to Jita I'll start a new thread for every local spammer I see, just so they can be sure to know we're ~onto them~


Maybe en24 will let us be authors then Lol.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#149 - 2012-12-31 02:32:02 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Next time I go to Jita I'll start a new thread for every local spammer I see, just so they can be sure to know we're ~onto them~


Maybe en24 will let us be authors then Lol.

Not likely, we're ~non-credible goons~

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#150 - 2012-12-31 02:32:26 UTC
FDIC Agent wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Maybe he's discreetly trying to help them... to turn over a new non-botting leaf, of course :v:


Now that would be a story, rehabilitating botters. Yet instead we decide to give them a warning that the cops are coming Ugh.

A warning? If ccp was informed in early December like Riverini said, and then provided the full logs on the 26 th. It strikes me odd that so many of you that are buddies with the hbc are painting Riverini as the bad guy. Why? If Riverini is lying about giving ccp a heads up about it, then why hasn't ccp said he is lying? It is like you care more about Riverini being wrong than if botters are stopped.

You have to step back and realize that blue or not, if they are in fact botting, anyone involved needs to be punished.


In case my other post was unclear Sreegs says it himself:

CCP Sreegs wrote:
Oh I also want to mention in case anyone is paying attention that if you really care about this issue this is the polar opposite of how to get a result.

We'll use the security world as an example because that's what I'm most familiar with. If I discover a vulnerability on a website it is completely irresponsible for me to go and publish that vulnerability in the public without first notifying the responsible parties and giving them time to act.

In this case you're basically telling these people someone's watching them and you think they'll continue doing bad things if they think we're going to look into this?

This is completely irresponsible and in the future if you honestly care about an issue you will report it to me and give us time to look into it before telling the world about it. I'm not saying not to write about it at all, but saying we've been notified and publishing all the potatoes without giving us an opportunity to look into it is more than a bit disingenuous.

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Hannah Flex
#151 - 2012-12-31 02:32:49 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
So you have never come across a business that likes free advertising? Must be nice to live in the middle of Antarctica


I realize that it is chic and vogue to be anti-goon and more recently anti-TEST given their successes in recent months. For the record I cant stand TEST and I dont like TRIBE even more but for en24 to say: hey we gave you the infoz on the day after Christmas and you no do nothing! is really weak.

The whole story is weak. All we have is supposed 'logs' which anyone can make with MS Notepad and a story. If its true- then these individuals and groups have laundered any dirty isk and are laying low at the moment, only to resume activities when the coast is clear/ tweaks made to their programs and software/accounts.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2012-12-31 02:35:27 UTC
Hannah Flex wrote:

The whole story is weak. All we have is supposed 'logs' which anyone can make with MS Notepad and a story. If its true- then these individuals and groups have laundered any dirty isk and are laying low at the moment, only to resume activities when the coast is clear/ tweaks made to their programs and software/accounts.


Another good point CCP only has so many man hours they can expend and we don't set their timelines. Unlike a ~credible~ newssite run by someone who is in an alliance that used to have a known botter in it who probably doesn't have to worry about timelines.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#153 - 2012-12-31 02:36:00 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:


Yep attack the messenger when a story is true.


The messenger just alerted the bad guys they are being watched before CCP started watching them.


Well the article did state CCP was sent the info
Quote:

However, with checkable logs and related information sent to them (our readers will kindly understand that certain names and chat-log details could not be published here, but were sent to CCP Sreegs when the source agreed)… perhaps it would be in the best interest of CCP Games to set an example?


So if they were not under the eye already then ... when?

Looks like Riverini gave CCP alot more heads up then the Goons gave CCP with the FW expoit which they told CCP only after ~5 trillion profit so that others wouldn't be able to do the same expoit. On top of that the Goons got a PLEX for bringing the expoit to CCP will Riverini be getting a PLEX for his work uncovering of these botters?
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#154 - 2012-12-31 02:36:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Axe
FDIC Agent wrote:
A warning? If ccp was informed in early December like Riverini said, and then provided the full logs on the 26 th. It strikes me odd that so many of you that are buddies with the hbc are painting Riverini as the bad guy. Why? If Riverini is lying about giving ccp a heads up about it, then why hasn't ccp said he is lying? It is like you care more about Riverini being wrong than if botters are stopped..


He's an idiotic blowhard who has no idea what CCP trying to catch/ban/whatever a botter even entails, let alone how long it takes, yet he made up his own arbitrary deadline to "break" this story anyway. That's why he's the "bad guy", because his fever dreams of being some kind of MMO Woodward and Bernstein are clearly more important than actually trying to get botters punished.

Let's say everything in that article is 100% true, for argument's sake (which is a leap when your only sources are "Horus" and "anonymous"). He's just announced to the world who the botters are, where they operate, how they operate, and has now topped it off by telling them that CCP definitely knows about them in this thread. The only way he could have helped them even further is by calling them personally and letting them know what's up.

And just for the record, if I woke up tomorrow and the entire HBC was banned, I wouldn't give a ****. Hell, it might even shake the game up some.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#155 - 2012-12-31 02:38:14 UTC
Goon credibility! LolLolLol

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#156 - 2012-12-31 02:38:57 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Hannah Flex wrote:

The whole story is weak. All we have is supposed 'logs' which anyone can make with MS Notepad and a story. If its true- then these individuals and groups have laundered any dirty isk and are laying low at the moment, only to resume activities when the coast is clear/ tweaks made to their programs and software/accounts.

Another good point CCP only has so many man hours they can expend and we don't set their timelines. Unlike a ~credible~ newssite run by someone who is in an alliance that used to have a known botter in it who probably doesn't have to worry about timelines.

Well I guess from this point the logs won't be showing very much.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#157 - 2012-12-31 02:39:27 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:


So if they were not under the eye already then ... when?

Looks like Riverini gave CCP alot more heads up then the Goons gave CCP with the FW expoit which they told CCP only after ~5 trillion profit so that others wouldn't be able to do the same expoit. On top of that the Goons got a PLEX for bringing the expoit to CCP will Riverini be getting a PLEX for his work uncovering of these botters?


Yes reporting something in a week with a major holiday then whining that it was not immediately followed is "alot more heads up."

Tell me more about the FW exploit, exactly how much "heads up" was given :allears:. Remember to cite your sources. Oh yeah nerf highsec.

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#158 - 2012-12-31 02:39:30 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Let's say everything in that article is 100% true, for argument's sake (which is a leap when your only sources are "Horus" and "anonymous").

Let's think about this a bit more. Let's suppose NPC Corp Alt was a source.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#159 - 2012-12-31 02:39:50 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:


So if they were not under the eye already then ... when?

Looks like Riverini gave CCP alot more heads up then the Goons gave CCP with the FW expoit which they told CCP only after ~5 trillion profit so that others wouldn't be able to do the same expoit. On top of that the Goons got a PLEX for bringing the expoit to CCP will Riverini be getting a PLEX for his work uncovering of these botters?


Yes reporting something in a week with a major holiday then whining that it was not immediately followed is "alot more heads up."

Tell me more about the FW exploit, exactly how much "heads up" was given :allears:. Remember to cite your sources. Oh yeah nerf highsec.

Nerf blobbers.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#160 - 2012-12-31 02:40:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Oh I also want to mention in case anyone is paying attention that if you really care about this issue this is the polar opposite of how to get a result.

We'll use the security world as an example because that's what I'm most familiar with. If I discover a vulnerability on a website it is completely irresponsible for me to go and publish that vulnerability in the public without first notifying the responsible parties and giving them time to act.

In this case you're basically telling these people someone's watching them and you think they'll continue doing bad things if they think we're going to look into this?

This is completely irresponsible and in the future if you honestly care about an issue you will report it to me and give us time to look into it before telling the world about it. I'm not saying not to write about it at all, but saying we've been notified and publishing all the potatoes without giving us an opportunity to look into it is more than a bit disingenuous.

I think that the biggest problem here is the lack or credit that any news web site can then give for example

We ratted these people out to CCP a month ago and then because of the information we provided 32 people were permabanned with CCP confiscating 2.1 trillion isk ect, ect,

So they don't really get that added incentive to hold of on a story, much like real life news media generally do not hold off.

So maybe like the forums processes need to be more transparent when it comes to complaints made against ISDs so to do all the other rulings, it is not after all like anyone's actual name is being used and in EvE actions are meant to have consequences, so yes it would be nice to know when you are letting someone into your cop if they have received previous punishments for RMTing or botting.

But you may feel free to now call me a nut job as I would like transparency in the process.




Yep we need to know who the banned botters are. Name em. It's not like they own the name, CCP owns everything.

I too have ratted out a bunch of botters and have no clue as to the results. Why the big secret?

Not being a hacking/scripting whiz, I am also curious how checking the servers is gonna expose a client side "injection"?

The reason why CCP does not name the botters is because they are protecting the innocent who would fall victim to the 'guilt by association' finger pointing. Imagine for a second you were not in a NPC corp, but a player corp and one of the guys in that corp was caught botting. CCP then publicly names them. Cool right? Name and shame!!! Rabble, rabble, rabble. You get the idea.

Now comes the fallout of you being in the same corp as that guy. Now players are accusing you of being a botter too or one of his alts. I mean you must be because you are in the same corp right? Rabble, rabble, rabble now you are hounded forever as the botter who got away. Have fun joining another corp or being first pick in Dodge Ball. Even though you are completely innocent, human society functions as on a guilty until proven innocent mentality. Even though we strive to make it the other way around.

CCP does not name the botting individuals not to protect them, but to protect you.