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Miner with drones, do drones agro on a ganker?

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Jason13 Anzomi
#1 - 2012-12-30 05:35:10 UTC
Assume you are mining and have drones deployed (and set to aggressive). Further assume a ganker shows up and starts shooting at you.

The question is, do your drones then attack the ganker without your instructing them?
Dheeradj Nurgle
Hoover Inc.
Snuffed Out
#2 - 2012-12-30 10:59:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Dheeradj Nurgle
They should, after the ganker has has agressed(Opened fire).

Considering a random ganker will only expect to get one or two hits off before the CONCORDOKKEN, and I expect you won't have fitted a tank, they will one/two shot you. And by that time, the drones will only have gotten one shot off, while you are sitting next to 2 wrecks, and 3 CONCORD ships.

I doubt that it's usefull, but if you try, let us know.
Jason13 Anzomi
#3 - 2012-12-30 12:36:49 UTC
The question arose due to something that happened yesterday. I had a Catalyst warp into my mining mission space and try to gank me. But since I fit my mission Retriever with tank rather than optimal mining, my ship had more than twice the normal eHP. As a result my ship survived to watch him motor home in his pod.

Unfortunately I had recalled my drones due to being seconds away from finishing the mission and thus had no damage on him and therefore no kill mail to remember the instance by.

From now on, the drones stay out until until I'm ready to go cash in the mission! Perhaps that way I can report back as to whether I get a kill mail on a ganker using my killer Retriever. Big smile
Aziesta
Ternary Solntse Industries
Xagenic Freymvork
#4 - 2012-12-30 14:58:54 UTC
Yes, they agress. ECM drones are a good choice for this, as they have a chance of actually helping you within seconds, where as damage drones don't really do anything useful in the 20 seconds it takes for concord to show up. And yes, ECM drones get you on the killmail as well.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#5 - 2012-12-30 15:13:22 UTC
The drones set to aggressive will attack them even if you are just targeted. Then guess who gets exploded ?

Drones set to aggressive while mining is not a good idea at all, OK ?

Sounds to me like you just wanna be AFK.

Keep them on passive and if they do fire and you are still there (hopefully you were at keyboard and have at least attempted to warp away) unleash them and youu will at least get on the CONCORD Kill Mail.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Jason13 Anzomi
#6 - 2012-12-30 17:41:29 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
The drones set to aggressive will attack them even if you are just targeted. Then guess who gets exploded ?

Drones set to aggressive while mining is not a good idea at all, OK ?

Sounds to me like you just wanna be AFK.

Keep them on passive and if they do fire and you are still there (hopefully you were at keyboard and have at least attempted to warp away) unleash them and youu will at least get on the CONCORD Kill Mail.


It sounded to me as though the situation was exactly as stated. I had a gank Catalyst warp in, darn near insta-locked me, blew the crud out of my boat before Concord popped his ship. The only thing that saved me according to the damage log was that he had a whole mess of misses and low damage hits. As it was, I went to 70% structure before his ship popped. I was not afk mining and was doing an L3 mining mission. And there's no way you can afk those!

So if someone targets me, my drones will attack him? When NPC ships target me, the drones do not attack. Is there a difference in NPC targeting and player targeting? The mail from Concord telling me I had kill rights showed up after he first shot, not prior to him taking the first shot.

And yes, I would have tried to warp - except that he had me warp scrambled. And with my 100 m/s Retriever, I certainly wasn't going to run away. And the time required for me to right click drones, select launch drones and then tell them to actually attack took too long. At 59 and disabled, I'm afraid my twitch fingers don't twitch that fast anymore. Sad
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#7 - 2012-12-30 17:58:05 UTC
Jason13 Anzomi wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
The drones set to aggressive will attack them even if you are just targeted. Then guess who gets exploded ?

Drones set to aggressive while mining is not a good idea at all, OK ?

Sounds to me like you just wanna be AFK.

Keep them on passive and if they do fire and you are still there (hopefully you were at keyboard and have at least attempted to warp away) unleash them and youu will at least get on the CONCORD Kill Mail.


It sounded to me as though the situation was exactly as stated. I had a gank Catalyst warp in, darn near insta-locked me, blew the crud out of my boat before Concord popped his ship. The only thing that saved me according to the damage log was that he had a whole mess of misses and low damage hits. As it was, I went to 70% structure before his ship popped. I was not afk mining and was doing an L3 mining mission. And there's no way you can afk those!

So if someone targets me, my drones will attack him? When NPC ships target me, the drones do not attack. Is there a difference in NPC targeting and player targeting? The mail from Concord telling me I had kill rights showed up after he first shot, not prior to him taking the first shot.

And yes, I would have tried to warp - except that he had me warp scrambled. And with my 100 m/s Retriever, I certainly wasn't going to run away. And the time required for me to right click drones, select launch drones and then tell them to actually attack took too long. At 59 and disabled, I'm afraid my twitch fingers don't twitch that fast anymore. Sad



The NPC mechanics are different that RL player ship mechanics.

Not saying you were afk, just roundabout warning about it.

And yes, targeting is aggression whether or not someone actually fires. When I fleet with my alt that webs my freighter, the alt gets an aggression timer before he even webs my freighter, and also cannot gate jump for 60 seconds.

This is how gankers trick you. They target you and if the drones are set to aggressive they will attack. Then you lose your ship.

I know, it's a complicated game.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Illest Insurrectionist
Sparta.
#8 - 2012-12-30 18:07:21 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Jason13 Anzomi wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
The drones set to aggressive will attack them even if you are just targeted. Then guess who gets exploded ?

Drones set to aggressive while mining is not a good idea at all, OK ?

Sounds to me like you just wanna be AFK.

Keep them on passive and if they do fire and you are still there (hopefully you were at keyboard and have at least attempted to warp away) unleash them and youu will at least get on the CONCORD Kill Mail.


It sounded to me as though the situation was exactly as stated. I had a gank Catalyst warp in, darn near insta-locked me, blew the crud out of my boat before Concord popped his ship. The only thing that saved me according to the damage log was that he had a whole mess of misses and low damage hits. As it was, I went to 70% structure before his ship popped. I was not afk mining and was doing an L3 mining mission. And there's no way you can afk those!

So if someone targets me, my drones will attack him? When NPC ships target me, the drones do not attack. Is there a difference in NPC targeting and player targeting? The mail from Concord telling me I had kill rights showed up after he first shot, not prior to him taking the first shot.

And yes, I would have tried to warp - except that he had me warp scrambled. And with my 100 m/s Retriever, I certainly wasn't going to run away. And the time required for me to right click drones, select launch drones and then tell them to actually attack took too long. At 59 and disabled, I'm afraid my twitch fingers don't twitch that fast anymore. Sad



The NPC mechanics are different that RL player ship mechanics.

Not saying you were afk, just roundabout warning about it.

And yes, targeting is aggression whether or not someone actually fires. When I fleet with my alt that webs my freighter, the alt gets an aggression timer before he even webs my freighter, and also cannot gate jump for 60 seconds.

This is how gankers trick you. They target you and if the drones are set to aggressive they will attack. Then you lose your ship.

I know, it's a complicated game.


Ignore this guy. Targeting someone won't cause their drones to attack you. lol

If you do have drones out while attacked you can, in theory, get the bounty from the ganker even if you die. If you damage them then concord finishes i think you'll get the bounty from them.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#9 - 2012-12-30 18:11:51 UTC
Illest Insurrectionist wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Jason13 Anzomi wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
The drones set to aggressive will attack them even if you are just targeted. Then guess who gets exploded ?

Drones set to aggressive while mining is not a good idea at all, OK ?

Sounds to me like you just wanna be AFK.

Keep them on passive and if they do fire and you are still there (hopefully you were at keyboard and have at least attempted to warp away) unleash them and youu will at least get on the CONCORD Kill Mail.


It sounded to me as though the situation was exactly as stated. I had a gank Catalyst warp in, darn near insta-locked me, blew the crud out of my boat before Concord popped his ship. The only thing that saved me according to the damage log was that he had a whole mess of misses and low damage hits. As it was, I went to 70% structure before his ship popped. I was not afk mining and was doing an L3 mining mission. And there's no way you can afk those!

So if someone targets me, my drones will attack him? When NPC ships target me, the drones do not attack. Is there a difference in NPC targeting and player targeting? The mail from Concord telling me I had kill rights showed up after he first shot, not prior to him taking the first shot.

And yes, I would have tried to warp - except that he had me warp scrambled. And with my 100 m/s Retriever, I certainly wasn't going to run away. And the time required for me to right click drones, select launch drones and then tell them to actually attack took too long. At 59 and disabled, I'm afraid my twitch fingers don't twitch that fast anymore. Sad



The NPC mechanics are different that RL player ship mechanics.

Not saying you were afk, just roundabout warning about it.

And yes, targeting is aggression whether or not someone actually fires. When I fleet with my alt that webs my freighter, the alt gets an aggression timer before he even webs my freighter, and also cannot gate jump for 60 seconds.

This is how gankers trick you. They target you and if the drones are set to aggressive they will attack. Then you lose your ship.

I know, it's a complicated game.


Ignore this guy. Targeting someone won't cause their drones to attack you. lol

If you do have drones out while attacked you can, in theory, get the bounty from the ganker even if you die. If you damage them then concord finishes i think you'll get the bounty from them.



Unless some mechanic has changed in last 2 years (I've been playing 3, and your info says you have played since August) you cannot possibly be right.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Jason13 Anzomi
#10 - 2012-12-30 18:15:51 UTC
Illest Insurrectionist wrote:
Ignore this guy. Targeting someone won't cause their drones to attack you. lol

If you do have drones out while attacked you can, in theory, get the bounty from the ganker even if you die. If you damage them then concord finishes i think you'll get the bounty from them.


I was pretty much certain that I have been targetted in the past with drones out and without the drones attacking. Once my friend comes online, I was going to setup a test run to see if target along would result in drone agro, but I didn't want to argue until I was certain.

I want to thank everyone for helping answer the question. I searched for half a day before finally posting my question. It was purely annoying to not find an answer through research.
Jason13 Anzomi
#11 - 2012-12-30 18:23:50 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
And yes, targeting is aggression whether or not someone actually fires. When I fleet with my alt that webs my freighter, the alt gets an aggression timer before he even webs my freighter, and also cannot gate jump for 60 seconds.


Actually aggression timers and drone attack aggression triggers are two different things.

When an NPC targets me, my aggression timer (top left corner) starts as of that moment. But my drones do not trigger to attack mode until one of them actually takes an aggressive action towards my ship.

So I can believe that targetting your freighter starts an aggression timer. But I do not see the aggression timer as being equal to the drones attack trigger.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#12 - 2012-12-30 18:32:06 UTC
Jason13 Anzomi wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
And yes, targeting is aggression whether or not someone actually fires. When I fleet with my alt that webs my freighter, the alt gets an aggression timer before he even webs my freighter, and also cannot gate jump for 60 seconds.


Actually aggression timers and drone attack aggression triggers are two different things.

When an NPC targets me, my aggression timer (top left corner) starts as of that moment. But my drones do not trigger to attack mode until one of them actually takes an aggressive action towards my ship.

So I can believe that targetting your freighter starts an aggression timer. But I do not see the aggression timer as being equal to the drones attack trigger.



Exactly. The potential ganker can web you which is not CONCORD-able, but is aggression and the drones will attack them and you'll have a bad day.

Other poster is half-right, half-wrong.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Jason13 Anzomi
#13 - 2012-12-30 18:37:17 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Exactly. The potential ganker can web you which is not CONCORD-able, but is aggression and the drones will attack them and you'll have a bad day.

Other poster is half-right, half-wrong.


So you are saying that the targetting itself does not trigger the drone aggression, but the webbing is?

If your alt was not in the same corp, the act of webbing is an aggressive action and Concord will take action. Therefore I would fully expect webbing to trigger drones, just as the earlier poster said EWAR drones would result in a kill mail since EWAR is considered aggressive.
Illest Insurrectionist
Sparta.
#14 - 2012-12-30 18:37:28 UTC
Webbing someone is a concordokkenable action.

Again don't listen to silly people.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#15 - 2012-12-30 18:44:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Zyella Stormborn
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
The drones set to aggressive will attack them even if you are just targeted. Then guess who gets exploded ?

Drones set to aggressive while mining is not a good idea at all, OK ?

Sounds to me like you just wanna be AFK.

Keep them on passive and if they do fire and you are still there (hopefully you were at keyboard and have at least attempted to warp away) unleash them and youu will at least get on the CONCORD Kill Mail.



I think you need to re test some things Krixtal. Targeting starts an aggression, but does not cause the drones to attack. Only a hostile ACTION (In high sec this means concordokken) causes them to start attacking. Shooting at the miner, webbing the miner, I believe even target painting the miner will do it. But this will also bring concord down on you unless you are a corp mate.

To the OP, you can leave your drones on aggressive, they will not attack the guy until he does something that will bring in Concord anyway. Hell, they often won't even aggro onto rats until they start shooting.
I have been a heavy miner for a long time now and have never had my drones get me killed when I mine in high sec due to aggro mechanics. Unless of course, something changed in this very latest Retribution patch that I missed.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#16 - 2012-12-30 19:23:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
The drones set to aggressive will attack them even if you are just targeted. Then guess who gets exploded ?

Drones set to aggressive while mining is not a good idea at all, OK ?

Sounds to me like you just wanna be AFK.

Keep them on passive and if they do fire and you are still there (hopefully you were at keyboard and have at least attempted to warp away) unleash them and youu will at least get on the CONCORD Kill Mail.



I think you need to re test some things Krixtal. Targeting starts an aggression, but does not cause the drones to attack. Only a hostile ACTION (In high sec this means concordokken) causes them to start attacking. Shooting at the miner, webbing the miner, I believe even target painting the miner will do it. But this will also bring concord down on you unless you are a corp mate.

To the OP, you can leave your drones on aggressive, they will not attack the guy until he does something that will bring in Concord anyway. Hell, they often won't even aggro onto rats until they start shooting.
I have been a heavy miner for a long time now and have never had my drones get me killed when I mine in high sec due to aggro mechanics. Unless of course, something changed in this very latest Retribution patch that I missed.



I'll take your word for it that something changed awhile back. I concede.

edit: I guess CCP did something as too many noobs were getting tricked. Old corp leader had been playing since '04 and things were different and advice outdated given.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#17 - 2012-12-30 19:32:40 UTC
Drones set to aggressive will not attack targets that have not attacked you. Wreck & jetcan thieves will be flagged as suspect, and aggressive drones will ignore them.

ECM drones are horrible for protection vs. gankers, as ECM takes 20 seconds to do anything (at end of cycle), and you'll probably be dead by then. They are also completely useless vs. smartbombs.
Jason13 Anzomi
#18 - 2012-12-30 19:33:16 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
I guess CCP did something as too many noobs were getting tricked. Old corp leader had been playing since '04 and things were different and advice outdated given.


Thank you for getting back to us on this. It is interesting to hear how the game has changed over time and that was one change that I am glad they made!

Keeping the drones on passive would have required first targeting the incoming gank ship, waiting for the target lock to finish, then commanding drones to engage. Even the fastest twitch fingers would have a difficult time getting engaged in that time!
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-12-31 00:03:19 UTC
Targeting someone does not cause aggression. This is why people are able to scan ships/freighters without concord taking action.

Drones should instantly attack the moment an aggressive module(s) is activated as long as your drones are not currently aggression something, and are within range of the aggressor.

Do not set drones to assist other ships. Doing this will cause the drones to attack making you an free to kill.
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-12-31 09:05:34 UTC
rofl, seems like the best advice would be ignore anything Krixtal Icefluxor posts.

How can you play the game for 3 years and be so wrong about everything?

...

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