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Missions & Complexes

 
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Adapt, they say
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Sgt LoveDragon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-12-30 15:08:51 UTC
Kery Nysell wrote:
Sgt LoveDragon wrote:
This does nothing , thanks for your contribution.


This is trolling, contributes nothing too, thanks for coming ...



I certainly hope it contributes. Unless you also think Sensor boosters help against tds. I have firsthand experience trying to get aggro from npc's away from drones/fighters unlike alot of the 'contributing' posters here. Ive explained it in detail in quite a few threads. Thanks for trying to do whatever witty thing you thought you were doing anyway.
Rengerel en Distel
#22 - 2012-12-30 15:12:53 UTC
As someone who actually tested all these changes on the test servers with every change, i can say a TP does nothing for gaining or keeping aggro. Individual missions have different drone hate sliders, they always have.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Kery Nysell
#23 - 2012-12-30 15:14:05 UTC
Sgt LoveDragon wrote:
I certainly hope it contributes. Unless you also think Sensor boosters help against tds. I have firsthand experience trying to get aggro from npc's away from drones/fighters unlike alot of the 'contributing' posters here. Ive explained it in detail in quite a few threads. Thanks for trying to do whatever witty thing you thought you were doing anyway.



You didn't read my posts after the first, did you ?

I'm now on my 21st mission using a Target Painter to lock the aggro on me, my drones (Lights and Mediums) are totally free of aggro from the NPCs in L4 missions.

Tried and tested for four days now.

It works, for me and numerous others.

And yes, I did a mistake with Sensor Boosters against TD's, I should have typed "Tracking Computers", but oh well, I'm not perfect ...

...
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-12-30 15:21:00 UTC
Kery Nysell wrote:
I'm now on my 21st mission using a Target Painter to lock the aggro on me, my drones (Lights and Mediums) are totally free of aggro from the NPCs in L4 missions.


Try that in a ded site with 20 cruisers and you will see it has no effect what so ever, within seconds half the room switch to the drones if you use medium.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Coyote Reach
Perkone
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-12-30 15:24:00 UTC
Also confirming TP/ reps on drones does not 'gain aggro'. Or at least in time to save the little guys. Ive got 70m in dead drones and fighters to boot from experimentation.

These level 4's you do is there a certain method of you releasing your drones? I have a hard time believing after all the tinkering iIve done that this actually works. Though I have not run a level 4 in months.
Kery Nysell
#26 - 2012-12-30 15:25:04 UTC
I said I didn't have any experience with Complexes, on the previous page ...

Reading comprehension FTW.

Lucky me, I have a flame-retardant suit when I come on these forums ...

...
Kery Nysell
#27 - 2012-12-30 15:29:48 UTC
Coyote Reach wrote:
Also confirming TP/ reps on drones does not 'gain aggro'. Or at least in time to save the little guys. Ive got 70m in dead drones and fighters to boot from experimentation.

These level 4's you do is there a certain method of you releasing your drones? I have a hard time believing after all the tinkering iIve done that this actually works. Though I have not run a level 4 in months.



1) warp in.
2) get aggroed by the usual suspects.
3) start painting a random target
4) launch drones, set them to aggressive, select the first frigate/cruiser (depending on the mission), order the attack.
5) watch the hit points of my drones staying up.
6) kill BSes/BCs with my Cruise missiles.
7) recall drones when the small fry is dead.
8) warp out.

Again, I have no experience of complexes, and I mostly mission against Guristas, Serpentis, Angels, Drones, Blood Raiders and Sanshas, with sometimes a Mercenaries mission.

Worked for me 100% of the time.

...
Coyote Reach
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-12-30 15:38:40 UTC
So you have no Elite frigates in these missions? There must be something different from a 4 to a 5, maybe the elite frigs. Ive tp'd before deploying in a V, gotten elite frigs scrambling me at 6-8k orbit. I deploy drones after that (light / medium) and typically if i am not right about to hit recall 1 will die when aggro suddenly switches. Another will dock with low armor or some crap even from 8k out.

If my ships was not td'd so hard itself id shoot these little elites when they are far out. But i cant so i fly something with cruise missiles. As you probably know shooting elite frigates with cruises ....is less than ideal.

So from what you are saying your method works fine in the level 4's. But only level 4's.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-12-30 15:49:48 UTC
Coyote Reach wrote:
These level 4's you do is there a certain method of you releasing your drones? I have a hard time believing after all the tinkering iIve done that this actually works.


I remember reading a dev post with a comment about the target selection of the AI, and ships offensive and defensive capabilities is one factor. Battleships may just naturally gain more aggression, then cruisers and battlecruiser in the same situation.

I've tried the target painter flying myrmidon and vexor, and it does nothing, the rats switch to the drones first chance they get. It may or may not work for bigger or smaller ship, but the target painter alone is no magic cure.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
stoicfaux
#30 - 2012-12-30 16:07:52 UTC
dexington wrote:
Akuma Tsukai wrote:
P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too Lol


Troll or real?

I started training missiles to counter the TD problem, maybe not the best plan...


Original plan: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1936492#post1936492
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
-Modify tracking enhancers and tracking computers to affect:
Max flight time
Explosion radius and explosion velocity
-Make TDs affect Missiles
Tracking speed script lowers explosion velocity and explosion radius
Optimal range script lowers flight time


Updated plan: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1936476#post1936476
Quote:
Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
Tracking mod and disruptor changes moved out of this release until the first set of changes settles a bit

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Kery Nysell
#31 - 2012-12-30 16:08:45 UTC
Yes, there are Elite Frigates in those missions ... takes my drones a bit longer to munch on them, that's how I recognize them when they're not Dire Guristas ...

Yes, I fly a BS, Navy Scorpion to be precise, so that might be a better source of aggro too.

Never tried L5s, but I hear those are "fleet missions", so I'd think that the aggro will switch between players anyway ... will have to try, some friends are trying to mount a fleet for that.

Oh, and I tested my "painter method" in L3s with my Drake (with HAMs), my Light Drones kill the Elite Frigs/normal frigs while I pound on the cruisers/BCs ...

In L2s and L1s, I use an Algos, a drone boat, and I don't loose my drones either, without a painter this time ... but with a +50% HP bonus on my drones (yes, Destroyers 5).

But against Tracking Disruption, I admit that I have problems with the few turret boats that I fly, yes.

...
Texty
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-12-30 16:17:23 UTC
Kery Nysell wrote:
dexington wrote:
Target Painters does absolutely nothing, light drones just don't get targeted by anything except elite frigs and cruisers.

Sensor booster don't really counter the tracking disruptor, you want to use tracking computer or enhancer.


We don't have the same experience then.

I started using a Painter on my mission boat 18 missions ago, and since then my Light Drones didn't get aggroed once, even with a swarm of 20+ frigates orbiting me ... heck, I even "paint" a lonely cruiser that I keep for last, and it works.


I have always used TPs. Still my drones sometimes get aggroed, sometimes they don't.
I can't really tell if the TPs are actually affecting the rat's behavior.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2012-12-30 16:31:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Akuma Tsukai wrote:
Specially for an inbred imbecile under the name of Barrogh Habalu:
In case you blind this is caracal. Which is no wonder considering screen was taken in blood 3/10, it have 5 pockets such as this. Now go and rewrite all the idiocity you typed once again. Those screen just demontrate current impossibility of much PVE content by turret ships. And soon by any missile ship too.

Sorry, my bad, got a bit used to L4 runners complaining about these changes - and I, as you've noticed, don't agree that L4s in particular got hurt that much.
Maybe I'll rewrite that thing when I come up with something. The thing is, I don't believe in QQing to CCP, and even if they step up, that will happen around spring at best. Gotta live 'till the moment somehow. Tbh I expect them to suggest you to get friends (read: more alts) to beat that instead of actually changing something about rats.

Fun part is that Caracal will probably be able to solo some of these plexes even after TD+missiles change due to the fact that it shoots past 80 km and hits 1700 m/s before perfect skills and respective mods/rigs. What turret cruisers will do - I have no idea so far; but it's not the first time we see this little problem called "medium missiles vs medium guns in PvE".

In case people figure out how threat accumulation works, maybe droneboats will also do the trick. I'll probably go and try to do some testing, and let you know if I find something...

... meanie Blink

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#34 - 2012-12-30 17:54:29 UTC
For some reason I think there is no "threat" mechanic at all. CCP didn't say anything about it.
I think there is just a random/scripted event happends when you shoot at rats and they have a chance to change their target.

Whatever.
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#35 - 2012-12-30 19:34:02 UTC
Akuma Tsukai wrote:
CCP did the right thing, they say Lol
Adapt to that, ya morons.
http://postimage.org/image/s2p7v200l/full/
http://postimage.org/image/3z9anndcx/full/

P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too Lol

This is insane to be honest.
I recommend ccp to revert changes to new AI ( normal rats, mission rats and complex rats) so that missions are doable again.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-12-30 20:02:32 UTC
After doing several complexes (I must admit those aren't anything worth a damn - drone 3/10 and a few Sansha lookouts) using droneboat with TP (some meta 3 TP I found in my junk storage) I've only got one case of rats aggroing drones, and those were rats stuck in deribs and such and for some reason refusing to target me even though there was nothing else for them to shoot and I was sitting right in fromt of them.

What I did is drawing initial aggro with whatever I could use this way (TP, guns etc) and then launched drones the same way I did before - after getting targeted by whatever is going to aggress at all at this point. For convinience I was painting the same enemy all the time, killing it last.

Now I must admit that obviously I haven't encountered a single elite frig, so my tests are far from being over.

Spc One wrote:
This is insane to be honest.
I recommend ccp to revert changes to new AI ( normal rats, mission rats and complex rats) so that missions are doable again.

It's not a mission on those screenshots. Speaking of missions, I haven't checked L2 and L3 missions, but I haven't heard of problems in those. When I was doing them (a long time ago), EWAR rats were generally limited to some special characters and the like. I wonder if that got changed.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Knorkor
Ministry of Silly Walk
#37 - 2012-12-30 22:57:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Knorkor
Tell me about it. As a gallentean I have the same problem with Serpentis and dampening. Especially in The Blockade.
Can't target anything outside 10km, Drones get shot down while munching on the dampers because you can't generate aggro.
That really needs some rebalancing imho. And shooting cruisers or frigs within 10km with a Battleship is hard. Unless you get a very lucky shot, nearly impossible.
The joy of drones has been that you could take down the dampeners and tracking disrupters without a problem.
Now with the new anti drone AI, that is gone and ECM in missions became a problem. It is not like you can't tank it, but I am afraid it might lead to a scenario where you can't target anything, your drones gone and you are scrambled.
This should never happen.

edit: And yes, I have all the important drone skills at IV or V. As I said, I am a true Gallentean :D.
Rexxorr
Perkone
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-12-31 04:06:14 UTC
Well when TD affect missiles, it might be time to move to Minmatar space. Course ccp might change angels e-war to something nasty...

I have found that some missions my drones are attacked on sight, other missions the drones are never targeted, it could be the mission or just random or who knows. I run with two target painters.
Fireflyb1
Walden 2.0
#39 - 2012-12-31 06:25:58 UTC
Spc One wrote:
Akuma Tsukai wrote:
CCP did the right thing, they say Lol
Adapt to that, ya morons.
http://postimage.org/image/s2p7v200l/full/
http://postimage.org/image/3z9anndcx/full/

P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too Lol

This is insane to be honest.
I recommend ccp to revert changes to new AI ( normal rats, mission rats and complex rats) so that missions are doable again.


That's not a mission, it's a complex.. just saying; that complex has a ridiculously high amount of TD'ing frigs, and afaik, most missions don't have that kind of TD EWAR.. but I haven't done lvl 4's in a while, not sure..
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-12-31 09:55:27 UTC
Akuma Tsukai wrote:
CCP did the right thing, they say Lol
Adapt to that, ya morons.
http://postimage.org/image/s2p7v200l/full/
http://postimage.org/image/3z9anndcx/full/

P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too Lol



And new fotm is.. Smartbomb tengu.. Anyone? Lol