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You did it to yourselves - Yet Another Boost null/low, nerf hi thread, except not.
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Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#121 - 2012-12-30 19:33:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Skydell
Qolde wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Many of the Null establishments rely on the T2 income to pay their Sov bills. Even Goons would be forced to cherry pick their Sov if they couldn't sell Technetium for 3 or 4 months.

None of the Null toys are worth their salt. From faction ships to officer mods to T2.

If you know you are going to be sitting in a mission hub running missions, a meta 4 fit Raven with faction Ammo is all you need. Any scenario where you will lose that Meta 4 fit Raven, the same will happen with an Officer fit Golem. From the ISK to bonus perspective, Null doesn't compete.


Technetium is going to sell no matter where you place it, so is neodymium, dysprosium, and whatever else you can imagine. If C+H left their sell orders up in jita, and just placed their new stock in lowsec at Jita prices, it would start to sell before the old stock was gone. T2 would skyrocket either way. You're out of your head if you think that there is a single alliance in the game who would field t2 weapons during a fleet op. You're out of your head even more if you think a carebear would dare trade in his golem for a raven. A mach for a mael. That's called supply and demand. The machariel blueprint would be worth 400-500m if it followed the LP formula of other items. If it weren't worth its salt, it would not be used. I do agree that it's expensive, but it's not overpriced. Gate camping without a claymore? Sucks. Abaddon fleet without a damnation or loki? crazy talk. Blasters without null? Pffffft. What are you smoking?

Randolph, it definitely wouldn't be joe shmoe making these decisions. If they have a tech moon, then they probably arent joe shmoe, who would try to benefit in the wallet in most cases. But there's something nice about some Nullsec organizations. The concept of a team. BoB had it. Some of their corps were 100% communist. Goons have it, they get free ships and mods, and have no rules. They could say in a coalition mail,"We're going to starve Jita for t2 goods, everyone sell your moonshit in Maila(lowsec that is 10 hisec jumps from jita) for a while. Go camp there, watch the tears." The players with brains and balls would figure out how to win. (it's not hard in lowsec) The rest would take a pay cut. Tech sells either way. Price even goes up, with how much would be destroyed in transit during the learning process. T2 harvesters have less work, more profit, and traders have something fun to do.

C+H guys, see what your market and military overlords think of this idea. Point them to this thread. Someone get akita t to check it out too and do some magic market speculation.


I'm not sure why you need to start in to the whole "what are you smoking" stuff. Nothing you said changes the premise of my comment.
They sell it because their Sov bills require they sell it. Because Joe in a Golem won't give up his Golem doesn't mean he can't run the same content in a Meta 4 raven. We are both right, what's your point?

We have the power to boycott Null. We "choose" not to. HS brought the over lord scenario on to themselves just like Null is a farm space for HS.
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
#122 - 2012-12-30 19:34:16 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
so heres idea for you lowsec people

stop selling all your stuff at jita,right now

dont wait untill ccp does something,be proactive - maybe if you start actually doing something,ccp will notice you

you talk way too much and act way to little

and im not saying this because i have large quantities of low sec ore stored or low sec alts Roll



Please do inform us how this will add extra manufacturing and research lines to nullsec stations, or allow more than one per system or pay Sov bills or pay for stations.

I'm fascinated to learn.


that maybe ccp will notice you exist...you know they are overwhelmed with carebears petitions and dumbing down high sec Roll
Qolde
Scrambled Eggs Inc.
#123 - 2012-12-30 19:38:26 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Null is a farm space for HS.

Touché.

But I bet the farmers will beat the cooks in a showdown.

If someone craps in your sandbox: 1. Light it on fire 2. Grab your shovel 3. Throw it back at them.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#124 - 2012-12-30 19:48:39 UTC
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
you just described a lot of stuff im not willing to deal with,id just pay a 1M more in jita than fooling around with that



And this is the true first problem, it's so easy to undock warp to safe undock and hit "jump to".

And Jita is nothing more than a system with stations, quite close at JF jump from many regions you'll tell me but you're not right saying you're going to pay 1M more in jita because actually it's the other way around and this is only possible because of competition, then it's so easy to get stuff in and out of there like every other major trade hub it's not worth the effort to do it somewhere else with all the consequences every fail system has in the end: stagnation

Industrial revamp alone will not be enough to shake the game in those different areas, you need to change trading skills/taxes/mechanics as you have to change traveling tools for those goods.
Single industrial revamp would already be a kick start but it's only the top of the iceberg.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#125 - 2012-12-30 19:54:53 UTC
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
so heres idea for you lowsec people

stop selling all your stuff at jita,right now

dont wait untill ccp does something,be proactive - maybe if you start actually doing something,ccp will notice you

you talk way too much and act way to little

and im not saying this because i have large quantities of low sec ore stored or low sec alts Roll



Please do inform us how this will add extra manufacturing and research lines to nullsec stations, or allow more than one per system or pay Sov bills or pay for stations.

I'm fascinated to learn.


that maybe ccp will notice you exist...you know they are overwhelmed with carebears petitions and dumbing down high sec Roll


What is this I don't even...

No go on, please explain in more detail.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
#126 - 2012-12-30 19:58:23 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
so heres idea for you lowsec people

stop selling all your stuff at jita,right now

dont wait untill ccp does something,be proactive - maybe if you start actually doing something,ccp will notice you

you talk way too much and act way to little

and im not saying this because i have large quantities of low sec ore stored or low sec alts Roll



Please do inform us how this will add extra manufacturing and research lines to nullsec stations, or allow more than one per system or pay Sov bills or pay for stations.

I'm fascinated to learn.


that maybe ccp will notice you exist...you know they are overwhelmed with carebears petitions and dumbing down high sec Roll


What is this I don't even...

No go on, please explain in more detail.


if you dont understand what is this thread about i suggest you leaving and post in one of them nerf threads
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
#127 - 2012-12-30 20:07:46 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
you just described a lot of stuff im not willing to deal with,id just pay a 1M more in jita than fooling around with that



And this is the true first problem, it's so easy to undock warp to safe undock and hit "jump to".

And Jita is nothing more than a system with stations, quite close at JF jump from many regions you'll tell me but you're not right saying you're going to pay 1M more in jita because actually it's the other way around and this is only possible because of competition, then it's so easy to get stuff in and out of there like every other major trade hub it's not worth the effort to do it somewhere else with all the consequences every fail system has in the end: stagnation

Industrial revamp alone will not be enough to shake the game in those different areas, you need to change trading skills/taxes/mechanics as you have to change traveling tools for those goods.
Single industrial revamp would already be a kick start but it's only the top of the iceberg.



well ok you say its easy to undock warp etc. - you wanna bet how many people actually know how undocking works?

its just unnecesary risk trading in low sec hub,jita is far more convenient i can even afk there Blink

so if you gonna create a low sec hub and want actually attract people,i just dont see that happening on large scale - lot of players dont even go to low sec with cheap ship - they are certainly not gonna go there with freighter full of valuable stuff - they will pay extra in jita
Qolde
Scrambled Eggs Inc.
#128 - 2012-12-30 20:09:08 UTC
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
you just described a lot of stuff im not willing to deal with,id just pay a 1M more in jita than fooling around with that



And this is the true first problem, it's so easy to undock warp to safe undock and hit "jump to".

And Jita is nothing more than a system with stations, quite close at JF jump from many regions you'll tell me but you're not right saying you're going to pay 1M more in jita because actually it's the other way around and this is only possible because of competition, then it's so easy to get stuff in and out of there like every other major trade hub it's not worth the effort to do it somewhere else with all the consequences every fail system has in the end: stagnation

Industrial revamp alone will not be enough to shake the game in those different areas, you need to change trading skills/taxes/mechanics as you have to change traveling tools for those goods.
Single industrial revamp would already be a kick start but it's only the top of the iceberg.



well ok you say its easy to undock warp etc. - you wanna bet how many people actually know how undocking works?

its just unnecesary risk trading in low sec hub,jita is far more convenient i can even afk there Blink

so if you gonna create a low sec hub and want actually attract people,i just dont see that happening on large scale - lot of players dont even go to low sec with cheap ship - they are certainly not gonna go there with freighter full of valuable stuff - they will pay extra in jita




That's fine, as long as we have the option of, you know, going to a low sec hub, as well as Jita. This is an anti Jita thread.

If someone craps in your sandbox: 1. Light it on fire 2. Grab your shovel 3. Throw it back at them.
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
#129 - 2012-12-30 20:12:32 UTC
Qolde wrote:

That's fine, as long as we have the option of, you know, going to a low sec hub, as well as Jita. This is an anti Jita thread.


id welcome that,more markets - more oportunities after all...just creating a hub might be a little problem Lol
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2012-12-30 20:16:50 UTC
the amount of intelligence in this thread is too damn low
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#131 - 2012-12-30 20:23:02 UTC
Null industrtialist,
High sec NPC corp industrialists are overpowered. I use one; it needs to be nerfed.

High sec indusrialist,
We know it's overpowered, but instead of fixing the problem well just keep arguing it's nulls fault, and we'll pretend that if we just fix bridging there wouldn't be a problem.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#132 - 2012-12-30 20:37:28 UTC
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
its just unnecesary risk trading in low sec hub,jita is far more convenient i can even afk there Blink

so if you gonna create a low sec hub and want actually attract people,i just dont see that happening on large scale - lot of players dont even go to low sec with cheap ship - they are certainly not gonna go there with freighter full of valuable stuff - they will pay extra in jita



I'm not saying major trade hubs should be in low null or whatever place, I'm just saying the current mechanics are so bad they made JIta and other major trade hubs happen, and that no matter how much you'll change industry in null doesn't change the fact shipping goods from and to them is far too easy and by far less risky than travel 20 jumps in high sec.
Trading current system doesn't help neither on conflict creation but concentrates it in a limited number of systems under the banner of single local power blocks.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2012-12-30 20:41:17 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Null industrtialist,
High sec NPC corp industrialists are overpowered. I use one; it needs to be nerfed.

High sec indusrialist,
We know it's overpowered, but instead of fixing the problem well just keep arguing it's nulls fault, and we'll pretend that if we just fix bridging there wouldn't be a problem.

I got a better option.


nerf players. they are too powerful.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Olleybear
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#134 - 2012-12-30 20:53:27 UTC
Only read about half the posts in this thread so forgive me if this has already been said.

The real problem is there isn't enough manufacturing capacity in sov null. Even if a pilot wants to build in sov null that pilot cant because most, if not all, of the manufacturing / research / etc slots are taken up by the stations owning corporation. Increasing the number of industry slots in null so more of your alliance members can produce will keep more materials in null. Why? It becomes more convenient to manufacture in sov null than to move your stuff out to empire. Lets face it, traveling sucks even with jump bridges when you dont have access to jump a freighter.

As a pilot who once lived in sov null, I was aching to build my own ships out in sov null but could not due to the shortage of industry slots. Naturally any manufacturer, including myself, moves their null minerals and everything else to empire so they can build.

Increase the number of industry slots in sov null stations and things will start to work themselves out. The ability to manufacture without needing to move stuff 15 jumps into empire might make sov null interesting again for a bunch of us.

If I remember reading some CSM minutes correctly, the CSM have already talked with CCP about this issue and CCP agrees that there does need to be an increase in industry slots in sov null stations. Heres to hoping for that change.

When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#135 - 2012-12-30 20:57:05 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
its just unnecesary risk trading in low sec hub,jita is far more convenient i can even afk there Blink

so if you gonna create a low sec hub and want actually attract people,i just dont see that happening on large scale - lot of players dont even go to low sec with cheap ship - they are certainly not gonna go there with freighter full of valuable stuff - they will pay extra in jita



I'm not saying major trade hubs should be in low null or whatever place, I'm just saying the current mechanics are so bad they made JIta and other major trade hubs happen, and that no matter how much you'll change industry in null doesn't change the fact shipping goods from and to them is far too easy and by far less risky than travel 20 jumps in high sec.
Trading current system doesn't help neither on conflict creation but concentrates it in a limited number of systems under the banner of single local power blocks.


I wish people would stop this.

The trade connections are intended and supported by CCP. The ability to easilly move goods from one reqion to another is vital to the economy.

It would be harmful if they made transporting goods tedious.

You guys act like null import/ export only benefits null.
Where did the moon goo come from? Who moved it?
Where did the high end minterals come from? Who moved it?
Who's moving all the low ends into null?

Null players are moving YOUR **** to null, and moving our stuff up to you so you can build YOUR ****.


It's pretty stupid to ask them to nerf a rather vital and benefitial part of the game, YOU never have to deal with. YOU only need to open the market to find the stuff YOU didn't have to move.

You guys are only asking to hurt yourself, because YOU wouldn't be the ones putting in the tedious work to get the **** YOU need.



Qolde
Scrambled Eggs Inc.
#136 - 2012-12-30 21:08:38 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
its just unnecesary risk trading in low sec hub,jita is far more convenient i can even afk there Blink

so if you gonna create a low sec hub and want actually attract people,i just dont see that happening on large scale - lot of players dont even go to low sec with cheap ship - they are certainly not gonna go there with freighter full of valuable stuff - they will pay extra in jita



I'm not saying major trade hubs should be in low null or whatever place, I'm just saying the current mechanics are so bad they made JIta and other major trade hubs happen, and that no matter how much you'll change industry in null doesn't change the fact shipping goods from and to them is far too easy and by far less risky than travel 20 jumps in high sec.
Trading current system doesn't help neither on conflict creation but concentrates it in a limited number of systems under the banner of single local power blocks.


I wish people would stop this.

The trade connections are intended and supported by CCP. The ability to easilly move goods from one reqion to another is vital to the economy.

It would be harmful if they made transporting goods tedious.

You guys act like null import/ export only benefits null.
Where did the moon goo come from? Who moved it?
Where did the high end minterals come from? Who moved it?
Who's moving all the low ends into null?

Null players are moving YOUR **** to null, and moving our stuff up to you so you can build YOUR ****.


It's pretty stupid to ask them to nerf a rather vital and benefitial part of the game, YOU never have to deal with. YOU only need to open the market to find the stuff YOU didn't have to move.

You guys are only asking to hurt yourself, because YOU wouldn't be the ones putting in the tedious work to get the **** YOU need.




Eggzactly. So... lets tell all our friends to stop doing so much for these spoiled brats.

If someone craps in your sandbox: 1. Light it on fire 2. Grab your shovel 3. Throw it back at them.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#137 - 2012-12-30 21:35:43 UTC
I nominate Perimiter as the new trade hub if Jita is changed.

Really... why do you guys think that would accomplish anything? Highbears don't want nullsec play- if they did, they'd already be there. You won't be able to attract them by giving them something they don't want in the first place.

Overhaul Dscan!
Qolde
Scrambled Eggs Inc.
#138 - 2012-12-30 21:40:53 UTC
Jita will always be Jita. It just will be neither the only, nor the best once the rest of Eve realizes how much power it has. Boycott Jita.

If someone craps in your sandbox: 1. Light it on fire 2. Grab your shovel 3. Throw it back at them.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#139 - 2012-12-30 21:43:03 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
I nominate Perimiter as the new trade hub if Jita is changed.

Really... why do you guys think that would accomplish anything? Highbears don't want nullsec play- if they did, they'd already be there. You won't be able to attract them by giving them something they don't want in the first place.

No one wants them in null, why do you guys always resort to that?

Or are you saying that every single person playing in high is there because they don't want to play in null? I'm calling shinanigans.

An incentive is for the people that want to play in null, or did play in null and then left, but have no "reason" to.

Everyone shooting everyone else is not how you make null life "not dull". I'm sure many people would love that, but eventually you'd need to do something else. There's simply nothing to do in most null systems.

Lots of people understand this.

Why go to null to run lvl 4 and 5s in NPC null space when you can do lvl 4s in high sec uninterrupted.

Why mine in null when you can mine in high sec for just as much ISK/ hour.

Why do industry when in null were it's much more inconvenient when you can do it in high sec for more profit.


There is no answer.
That's a problem.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#140 - 2012-12-30 21:44:16 UTC
Randolph Rothstein wrote:

if you dont understand what is this thread about i suggest you leaving and post in one of them nerf threads


If your best response to being asked to explain your suggestion is a demand that the questioner leave then that does throw the value of your response into question.

Perhaps you'd like to answer a different question instead. Previously you asserted that hisec should have the best industry because it's the "heart of civilisation" - the developed world, compared to Afghanistan hill country. Presumably therefore you would agree that hi-sec should pay developed-world level taxation rates? Say... 25%? That seems pretty moderate.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016