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You did it to yourselves - Yet Another Boost null/low, nerf hi thread, except not.
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Potamus Jenkins
eXceed Inc.
Plucky Adventurers
#21 - 2012-12-29 20:34:55 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Potamus Jenkins wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
CCP has already made routes around Jita to cut down on traffic passing through the system.

Change Jita to 0.0 NPC Null.

Problem Solved.

Then we will really see what the player want.

Something tells me the hub will just be moved to another high-sec location cause null-sec wants it that way.



the player wants profit the easiest way possible. thats what the player wants. the player doesnt care where this is they want

profit
ease

now you can prioritize those two however you want, BUT the people in this game to make isk are gonna make their isk. so changing jita to null would not accomplish anything except causing the hub to shift.



this is natural human(probably all animal) instinct. and at a minimum the natural adaptation of the market.

there is no reason people wouldnt immediately start doing their trade in a more secure area. you essentially just increased your operating costs (now you need protection to undock, smaller ships[less cargo], more expensive ships carry less quantities, replacing more ships/goods etc..) so there is no logical reason to continue unless the profit is going up to compensate for the rise in operating costs. which of course isnt happening because demand in your new nullsec system will drop as well.


sorry taking off my pretend economist hat now, please feel free to tell me im way off the mark.



I wonder how bad it would truly be if Jita's trade hub was "moved" away anyways.

I think it would be exciting.


im one of the people that at this point in my eve life, any kind of big change like retribution inspires me to play a little bit, just because its "different aka new". so i definately am not adverse to things getting shaken up since i dont have assets/resources/isk/skills committed to anything in particular. i can fly most ships i enjoy pvp dont enjoy industry care bear, so im always like...fug it shake it up!
Potamus Jenkins
eXceed Inc.
Plucky Adventurers
#22 - 2012-12-29 20:35:49 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
I personally think most people that care in the game are hoping that the POS revamp happens, and it's done correctly. Personal POS set ups. 100% refining in null/WH arrays, etc.

Some bold assumptions there Cool



pos revamp excites me because you know POS interface sucks.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#23 - 2012-12-29 20:36:28 UTC
Potamus Jenkins wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
I personally think most people that care in the game are hoping that the POS revamp happens, and it's done correctly. Personal POS set ups. 100% refining in null/WH arrays, etc.

Some bold assumptions there Cool

pos revamp excites me because you know POS interface sucks.

Maybe a shiny new Unified Interface (for POS) will save us all.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Dave stark
#24 - 2012-12-29 20:37:12 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
please tell me i'm not the only one that's bored of the same thread popping up over and over as if people only know how to hit "new thread" rather than "reply"?

You're not the only one.

Amusingly enough these kinds of threads were not all over the place months ago like they are now. The HBCFC coalition will have all of null blue or in some NIP before too long, save for some entities living out of NPC null. Which they have demonstrated in the past they want NPC null gone too. The reason why you are seeing these threads all over the place is they would much rather blame high sec for their boredom than themselves.

I say let them sleep in the bed they made. P


i'm actually quite eager to see hbc/cfc have control of null. something will have to give once everywhere is owned by one entity (give or take), and i think that'll bring about some interesting events.
i could, of course, be over optimistic and talking out of my ass. only time will tell.

however, there is perhaps cause to give threads like this some merit. there are issues in null that need addressing, and likewise in high sec. null sec industry really could do with looking at, and npc corps have been mentioned once or twice recently and perhaps they need looking at as well. i'm abusing the hell out of npc corps as long as i can for the time being.
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-12-29 20:37:49 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Disclaimer: Full blown assumption ahead.
I'm just guessing on this one. I'm assuming that there aren't enough moons in null to build all the PoS's that would be required to convert raw materials into useable products. I'm assuming that the initial statges of production on advanced components and materials is done in null, then shipped to high and low where the "next stage" of production occurs to create the materials used in T2 and up production; due to PoS restrictions.

I'm assuming that before CCP can ever "fix" anything, they need to do the PoS revamp. As well as reduce the extent of what you can do as an industrialist from the safety of the NPC corporations. (IE:Require T2 production to be done from player run structures such as the revamped PoS's and player run stations.)



Adding to your assumptions :
CCP originally wanted a station or should I say 3 stations in every constellation if I remember the old mechanics correctly.
Which means they wanted people to spread out (evidence of gimped stations).
Perhaps this was a little bit about not putting all you eggs in one basket cause stations can be taken over.

However a lot of stations where made with whatever was cheapest and had the most corp offices.

Based on the skills it looks like CCP had never intended to see alliances with 100's of corporations but rather large huge corporations working towards a common goal. (6,000 character limit on a corp I think)

Al this is guess work but it appears CCP grand design did not work.
Perhaps because people are lazy or just didn't see the big picture but for whatever reason now we have a different situation and the question is can null be salvaged.

Perhaps but it will take some serious effect on the player part and well EVE player don't work well together.
So possible yes, likely no.




EVERYBODY KNOWS
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#26 - 2012-12-29 20:39:44 UTC
Qolde wrote:
For us 0.0 residents who blame all things bad on carebears, we must realize that we do this to ourselves. Hisec in its current form could not exist without our blessings, and decisions to make their lives so convenient and fruitful. Most tech 2 manufacturing and even large ship manufacturing takes place in empire, yet the amount of megacyte, morphite and zydrine required to make this possible ALL must come from nullsec. Every single t2 material that exists must be harvested and processed outside of hisec. So why do we all ferry our goods straight to the carebear capital in Jita?

We know why we do. Because everyone else does, and that's where buyers go. Sensible, logical, and efficient. Now consider this proposal. All nullsec/lowsec organizations who have an interest in making null more active shall flat out refuse to sell anything in any hisec system for at least 3 months. Put it up in a lowsec npc nullsec system near your home for around Jita prices. If one or two small corps do this, it's almost meaningless. But if one of the supercoalitions could see the potential of this change in habits, the results would be awesome for us, and ****** for hisec players.

The outcomes I see would be all good:
Lowsec and NPCNull Trade hubs around the borders of 0.0 would spring to life, presenting trade opportunities to fill the eternal demand of t2 materials in jita.

Pirates notice these trade hubs, and do their thing, possibly decreasing the supply of materials even further, through item destruction. Even better isk for the producer of said goods.

Nullsec denizens save on jump fuel from trying to clear the whole universe just to get to jita and sell to a trade bots buy orders.

Smart cookies start interregional trading routes, balancing out these lowsec/null trade hubs with materials from each major part of space, making the availablity rival jita, and closer to the outer edges of empire, moving production away from The Forge slowly but surely.

0.0 industry fixed
lowsec populated
risk vs reward realized.
delicious tears from the true carebears.

only problem i can think of is getting the supercoalitions to agree on something.


Game completely breaks, people unsubb, prices skyrocket, grief killmails skyrocket, and you think hisec industrialists are just going to keep getting into pirate infested areas and lose billions, ? Dont think so.

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-12-29 20:44:49 UTC
OP,

Nice posting but you forgot the most important part: jump freighters

Jump freighters
Jump bridges
Titan bridge

And none of them (null sec) and specially their industrial NPC alts or alt corporations would ever play the game. None plays for internet honor, all of them play only for their wallet, it's not hard to understand.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Qolde
Scrambled Eggs Inc.
#28 - 2012-12-29 20:45:27 UTC
psycho freak wrote:
null sec is a joke to alot of ppl

ppl dont like to put alot assests at risk and with blob warfare sov taken station teken ppl lose alot they junk
make all null npc space job done you see alot more willing to take the risk

ppl dont like cta its our game time we do wtf we want with it not what some jumped up null dude says

if you null secers have problem with null adapt or try fix or gtfo all this whineing kinda getting silly

nothing rong with losec
nothing rong with hisec

nurf hisec and ccp will lose alot subs

losec is were I live and do 90% my activatys 10% hisec

null sec 0%

mostly becouse the ppl that live there I put up with them for three years and wouldnt wast another second on them

so cry whine beg ccp for nurf of other area wont change jack sh#t except the loss of subs


I agree that CTA's suck, Blobs suck, hotdrops suck, losing sov sucks. It's why I'm in NPC null. just roam and pick off the stragglers of that blob on a cta to hotdrop some sov. That's why i specifically suggested people selling their goods in NPC null and lowsec. Anyone can go to nullsec. Theres not nearly as many common gatecamps as you think. And NPC null is only slightly worse than any other place in the game.

If someone craps in your sandbox: 1. Light it on fire 2. Grab your shovel 3. Throw it back at them.
Qolde
Scrambled Eggs Inc.
#29 - 2012-12-29 21:00:05 UTC
Peter Raptor wrote:
Qolde wrote:
For us 0.0 residents who blame all things bad on carebears, we must realize that we do this to ourselves. Hisec in its current form could not exist without our blessings, and decisions to make their lives so convenient and fruitful. Most tech 2 manufacturing and even large ship manufacturing takes place in empire, yet the amount of megacyte, morphite and zydrine required to make this possible ALL must come from nullsec. Every single t2 material that exists must be harvested and processed outside of hisec. So why do we all ferry our goods straight to the carebear capital in Jita?

We know why we do. Because everyone else does, and that's where buyers go. Sensible, logical, and efficient. Now consider this proposal. All nullsec/lowsec organizations who have an interest in making null more active shall flat out refuse to sell anything in any hisec system for at least 3 months. Put it up in a lowsec npc nullsec system near your home for around Jita prices. If one or two small corps do this, it's almost meaningless. But if one of the supercoalitions could see the potential of this change in habits, the results would be awesome for us, and ****** for hisec players.

The outcomes I see would be all good:
Lowsec and NPCNull Trade hubs around the borders of 0.0 would spring to life, presenting trade opportunities to fill the eternal demand of t2 materials in jita.

Pirates notice these trade hubs, and do their thing, possibly decreasing the supply of materials even further, through item destruction. Even better isk for the producer of said goods.

Nullsec denizens save on jump fuel from trying to clear the whole universe just to get to jita and sell to a trade bots buy orders.

Smart cookies start interregional trading routes, balancing out these lowsec/null trade hubs with materials from each major part of space, making the availablity rival jita, and closer to the outer edges of empire, moving production away from The Forge slowly but surely.

0.0 industry fixed
lowsec populated
risk vs reward realized.
delicious tears from the true carebears.

only problem i can think of is getting the supercoalitions to agree on something.


Game completely breaks, people unsubb, prices skyrocket, grief killmails skyrocket, and you think hisec industrialists are just going to keep getting into pirate infested areas and lose billions, ? Dont think so.

That's called a slippery slope. People have been threatening to hold their breath til they die since i started playing this game. You'll adapt. It's why you're still playing. You'll learn one fo the first things I learned about this game. Running blockades, and the art of hauling in lowsec. It's not nearly as hard as you think.

Quote:
OP,

Nice posting but you forgot the most important part: jump freighters

Jump freighters
Jump bridges
Titan bridge

And none of them (null sec) and specially their industrial NPC alts or alt corporations would ever play the game. None plays for internet honor, all of them play only for their wallet, it's not hard to understand.


Black frog seems to be doing fine hauling to and fro lowsec and NPC null. The average player will eventually learn this concept, and the Large alliances would do well to keep pirates out of their trade hubs. Both smaller pirate corps would get fights, large alliances would have something to do other than posbash and NAP, and the haulers who know how to do it would get rich. N00bs will be n00bs. But the game would be more fun for all. You think that once t2 production becomes so lucrative that anyone with a stockpile can triple their investment, people won't attempt to continue what they have always done because "here there be dragons"? Someone will pickup that last leg of the trade route to jita, and make some good isk, while us nullseccers will never have to visit jita again. We can go to our newfound nulljitas that we built with our own hands.

If someone craps in your sandbox: 1. Light it on fire 2. Grab your shovel 3. Throw it back at them.
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-12-29 21:09:47 UTC
Dear Original Poster,

Your idea is very bright indeed. But there are some external factors.

To get a full experience please set up a POS in low sec and stockpile your BPO's there. To get industry and invention rolling.

Also, please warp freighters loaded with ZYdrine across 0.4 systems. Also, could you bring a freighter load of tech 2 modules and undock in it please.

Then also navigate your newly bought mission battle ship past borderline systems.

Also, use shortest cuts for faster goods acquisition, fly shuttles through Tama, Old Man Star and Rancer to get better delivery.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again
psycho freak
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-12-29 21:15:14 UTC  |  Edited by: psycho freak
Qolde wrote:
psycho freak wrote:
null sec is a joke to alot of ppl

ppl dont like to put alot assests at risk and with blob warfare sov taken station teken ppl lose alot they junk
make all null npc space job done you see alot more willing to take the risk

ppl dont like cta its our game time we do wtf we want with it not what some jumped up null dude says

if you null secers have problem with null adapt or try fix or gtfo all this whineing kinda getting silly

nothing rong with losec
nothing rong with hisec

nurf hisec and ccp will lose alot subs
loo
losec is were I live and do 90% my activatys 10% hisec

null sec 0%

mostly becouse the ppl that live there I put up with them for three years and wouldnt wast another second on them

so cry whine beg ccp for nurf of other area wont change jack sh#t except the loss of subs


I agree that CTA's suck, Blobs suck, hotdrops suck, losing sov sucks. It's why I'm in NPC null. just roam and pick off the stragglers of that blob on a cta to hotdrop some sov. That's why i specifically suggested people selling their goods in NPC null and lowsec. Anyone can go to nullsec. Theres not nearly as many common gatecamps as you think. And NPC null is only slightly worse than any other place in the game.



im ex outbreak lived npc 0.0 for long time but what I mean also is

why wiuld anyone in they right mind join a sov corp aliance just to spend hours days weeks setting up they area and then a massive coalition blob comes and takes the lot

I fought in the lv south war
I fought in the first bob war takeing feythabolis from rise
I fought in second bob war and against ol MC
I fought in a few drone land wars
I fought in atlas wars

me personaly iv had enough of taken and loseing space

I rember old north with roaming tri gangs tbh that was best time in null sec no sov crap

ppl aint gona wast time build somthing for a mega coalition to just come and take and if they do good luck to them


all the problems with null sec are player made problems you had to blue everything in sight and wipe out those who didnt blue so now you you whine lol

make all null npc space remove sov they only want the moond anways

my spelling sux brb find phone number for someone who gives a fu*k

nop cant find it
Qolde
Scrambled Eggs Inc.
#32 - 2012-12-29 21:42:56 UTC
Opertone wrote:
Dear Original Poster,

Your idea is very bright indeed. But there are some external factors.

To get a full experience please set up a POS in low sec and stockpile your BPO's there. To get industry and invention rolling.

Also, please warp freighters loaded with ZYdrine across 0.4 systems. Also, could you bring a freighter load of tech 2 modules and undock in it please.

Then also navigate your newly bought mission battle ship past borderline systems.

Also, use shortest cuts for faster goods acquisition, fly shuttles through Tama, Old Man Star and Rancer to get better delivery.

Hey blue neighbor,
I've done all the above. I used to live in isendeldik and I have a 100% success ratio on getting loads of RF gyro's through rancer, whether they're smartbombing or have the remote sensor boosted hics out. You can check back a few pages on my contract history on qolde and startha mewart. also have Katie Door's corpse for sale. 1 of 20 known corpses. I've piloted a solo mastodon from TDE4 through konora and ran into a gate camp that wasn't exactly friendly. Still has large rigs on it.

I have lost quite a few mission machs, to many different factors, but never during lowsec/nullsec travel. I went afk during a mission and totally forgot I was playing eve. I went to a 1.0 system on accident with a -3 sec status, and one was Awox'd. I also lost a Paladin near HLW during a storyline, but I killed the sabre who tackled me first. Pirate

I did lose all my blueprints the first time i tried to bring them to Curse in my prowler, before they could fit covert ops cloaks. I'd recommend against putting all your BPO's in a POS. That's what stations are for. you only have to risk the ones youre currently working on in a POS. Even that can be unecessary if you can open your S&I window and take a look at the many unused slots available in stations around the cluster.

As it stands though, I have invention rolling in 0.0. I have all my BPO's in 0.0. I build stuff, I even mined a couple times when I was just a little short of some zyd or whatever. My main point is, we put up these poses on the ass end of the cluster, take everything to the other ass end of the cluster, and haul back some other stuff from the other ass ends of the universe. And the people who benefit the most from it don't even realize the work we go through to get them their megacyte, morphite, neodymium, and Gist X-type shield boosters. They sit in Kimotoro's skyscrapers, call us all manner of insults, and pay us bottom dollar when we deliver our hand tossed pizza's to their doorsteps.

psycho freak wrote:
[quote=Qolde][quote=psycho freak]

im ex outbreak lived npc 0.0 for long time but what I mean also is

why wiuld anyone in they right mind join a sov corp aliance just to spend hours days weeks setting up they area and then a massive coalition blob comes and takes the lot

I fought in the lv south war
I fought in the first bob war takeing feythabolis from rise
I fought in second bob war and against ol MC
I fought in a few drone land wars
I fought in atlas wars

me personaly iv had enough of taken and loseing space

I rember old north with roaming tri gangs tbh that was best time in null sec no sov crap

ppl aint gona wast time build somthing for a mega coalition to just come and take and if they do good luck to them


all the problems with null sec are player made problems you had to blue everything in sight and wipe out those who didnt blue so now you you whine lol

make all null npc space remove sov they only want the moond anways

Yeah, losing space sucks, being a slave for a megacoalition is not better. The problems with that are more psychological than anything. The winning team retains its members because they are winning, everyone else is trying to catch up, so they form coalitions to defeat them. Well, this isn't about sov and ships exploding. It's that so many nullseccers are sick of NEEDING hisec alts because everyone else has one. People think that hisec has a lot of carebears, but it's really a lot of nullseccers industrial alts. I know guys that are nullsec players, but have 5-10 hisec alts doing industry just to fund phatter ships. Imagine if their alts didn't have to live near Jita, or even go to Jita.

If someone craps in your sandbox: 1. Light it on fire 2. Grab your shovel 3. Throw it back at them.
psycho freak
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-12-29 21:51:20 UTC
as -10 player know all about needing hisec alts as does almost every - sec player

my point is on large scale ppl wont comite if there large chance to loose they stuff a small chance then yea
this is why I belive all null sec should b npc space

poses also suck as they are witch probly stops alot ppl also

my spelling sux brb find phone number for someone who gives a fu*k

nop cant find it
stoicfaux
#34 - 2012-12-29 21:59:54 UTC
Plan B: significantly raise taxes on high-sec transactions.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-12-29 22:13:57 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Plan B: significantly raise taxes on high-sec transactions.


I like that one but, if null taxes can be changed by station owner it will not take more than 1h after DT/patch before the little grunts get yet, another wallet hit.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Qolde
Scrambled Eggs Inc.
#36 - 2012-12-29 22:17:48 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Plan B: significantly raise taxes on high-sec transactions.


I like that one but, if null taxes can be changed by station owner it will not take more than 1h after DT/patch before the little grunts get yet, another wallet hit.


Most null alliances I've been in have free repairs and no/low refining tax. They actually do want you to succeed, it just has to help them too. There should be a sliding tax for every station depending on volume, from 0.5% to 20%. That would solve some ****.

If someone craps in your sandbox: 1. Light it on fire 2. Grab your shovel 3. Throw it back at them.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-12-29 23:10:39 UTC
And after everything in high sec is taxed to 95% and industry obliterated and any other ham-fisted changes...

after all of that...

And players still choose to not fall into the folds of the null coalitions to become a F1 monkey; then what?
Frying Doom
#38 - 2012-12-29 23:14:25 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
And after everything in high sec is taxed to 95% and industry obliterated and any other ham-fisted changes...

after all of that...

And players still choose to not fall into the folds of the null coalitions to become a F1 monkey; then what?

I am sure then he would just suggest the complete removal of industry from everywhere but Null as he seems to think that it is the only place it should be.

Mind you I have noticed he keeps talking about the fact he is still suckling at the NPC teat.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Ginger Barbarella
#39 - 2012-12-29 23:18:05 UTC
*yawn*

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
TharOkha
0asis Group
#40 - 2012-12-29 23:19:06 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
psycho freak wrote:
null sec is a joke to alot of ppl

ppl dont like to put alot assests at risk and with blob warfare sov taken station teken ppl lose alot they junk
make all null npc space job done you see alot more willing to take the risk

ppl dont like cta its our game time we do wtf we want with it not what some jumped up null dude says

if you null secers have problem with null adapt or try fix or gtfo all this whineing kinda getting silly

nothing rong with losec
nothing rong with hisec

nurf hisec and ccp will lose alot subs

losec is were I live and do 90% my activatys 10% hisec

null sec 0%

mostly becouse the ppl that live there I put up with them for three years and wouldnt wast another second on them

so cry whine beg ccp for nurf of other area wont change jack sh#t except the loss of subs


TOP POST !!!

I mean... nullsec is true sandbox... if its dwellers make it misserable then it is misserable. I agree that POS need rebalance, that outposts need more manufacturing and research slots etc... and what was their (nullsec) response for this solution?... "Rather nerf those carebears in hisec, than buffing null".... Sometimes, i think that this whole hisec industry rage is not about rebalance of industry, but rage of nullbears because of their incompetence.

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell