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"Make smaller better"
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#81 - 2012-12-29 20:09:05 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Why are you so afraid of the unknown?

Why do you only ever post rhetoric?

Because it's hard to actually make a point that doesn't get shredded like a rifter by an old-school tracking titan.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2012-12-29 20:11:35 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
You really seem to be hell-bent on keeping small gangs at bay. Now I may be assuming things but I sure hope it doesn't have anything to do with you being in a big blob alliance and fear the wrath of countless of small groups harassing you. Cause you know, that would be soooo bad for EVE, right?

Why do you believe small gangs should be capable of achieving strategic victories?


I am not saying that small gangs should be able to fly around and leave scrapheaps of former PoS's behind them. I am saying that small gangs should have the ability to harass as a means of fighting the "big guys" or anyone else. The economic damages would hardly be massive in any kind of way, but enough harassment overtime would still have an effect.

The manner at which these small gangs handle the "response" of their enemies is up to them. Either they get harassed back or get a full blob on them...or attempted blob anyway.

Here is my counter question: do you want to see more people in low/null? Cause you know, I believe we are in the agreement that not everyone wants to join a blob super-power or some such yet at the same time have absolutely no way of doing anything against them that would cause any kind of damage over time.


Good point. I thought you were referring to things like small gangs capturing systems and the like.
The problem becomes how to scale such things so that these are not particularly advantageous for a larger fleet to do, but very effective measures when done by small fleets.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2012-12-29 20:33:52 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
You really seem to be hell-bent on keeping small gangs at bay. Now I may be assuming things but I sure hope it doesn't have anything to do with you being in a big blob alliance and fear the wrath of countless of small groups harassing you. Cause you know, that would be soooo bad for EVE, right?

Why do you believe small gangs should be capable of achieving strategic victories?


I am not saying that small gangs should be able to fly around and leave scrapheaps of former PoS's behind them. I am saying that small gangs should have the ability to harass as a means of fighting the "big guys" or anyone else. The economic damages would hardly be massive in any kind of way, but enough harassment overtime would still have an effect.

The manner at which these small gangs handle the "response" of their enemies is up to them. Either they get harassed back or get a full blob on them...or attempted blob anyway.

Here is my counter question: do you want to see more people in low/null? Cause you know, I believe we are in the agreement that not everyone wants to join a blob super-power or some such yet at the same time have absolutely no way of doing anything against them that would cause any kind of damage over time.


Good point. I thought you were referring to things like small gangs capturing systems and the like.
The problem becomes how to scale such things so that these are not particularly advantageous for a larger fleet to do, but very effective measures when done by small fleets.


Which is why we go back to the problem of instant information with Local + d-scan and why the alternative of having the d-scan rely on signature radius becomes so tempting.

After that it is up to the players when it comes to how to utilize an environment where it takes a while to figure out if anyone is in a system and if so what ship is flown and it will be up to players whether they want to move small and swift or in a big blob. So what if a small group is chased by a blob? The small group will then have the advantage of detecting the blob before the blob detects the small group. That gives the small group a chance of getting the hell out, or if they are crazy enough, even attempt some kind of ambush by hiding in anomalies. Regardless of how things play out there will at least be a lot more possible outcomes because there is no instant information available to either side which automatically eliminates quite a few options.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#84 - 2012-12-29 20:41:27 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Which is why we go back to the problem of instant information with Local + d-scan and why the alternative of having the d-scan rely on signature radius becomes so tempting.

After that it is up to the players when it comes to how to utilize an environment where it takes a while to figure out if anyone is in a system and if so what ship is flown and it will be up to players whether they want to move small and swift or in a big blob. So what if a small group is chased by a blob? The small group will then have the advantage of detecting the blob before the blob detects the small group. That gives the small group a chance of getting the hell out, or if they are crazy enough, even attempt some kind of ambush by hiding in anomalies. Regardless of how things play out there will at least be a lot more possible outcomes because there is no instant information available to either side which automatically eliminates quite a few options.


Toss in the removal of structure mails (another instant information tool that promotes blobs) and you have my vote. Information through effort.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2012-12-29 20:43:13 UTC
Yeah, it's not like "your tower is under attack" mails have anything to do with that.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2012-12-29 20:46:53 UTC
dexington wrote:
What would stop people from forming 10 small fleets of 5 people instead of one big 50 man fleet?


What's so wrong with that? Ten commanders. Many cooks spoil the broth; it will require far better coordination and command from the squad leaders. If you make it so the FC must pass orders down through the FC -> WC -> SC system and make it so only squad commanders can warp units, then we have some kind of progress in the system.

Dodixie > Hek
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#87 - 2012-12-29 20:48:07 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yeah, it's not like "your tower is under attack" mails have anything to do with that.

We gonna have to send newbies out on patrols?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#88 - 2012-12-29 20:50:21 UTC
lol does Gillia really think removing local would help small corps/alliances in 0.0?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#89 - 2012-12-29 20:52:51 UTC
Nerf intel channels.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#90 - 2012-12-29 20:56:39 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
lol does Gillia really think removing local would help small corps/alliances in 0.0?

They'll never see the titan blob coming :v:

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#91 - 2012-12-29 20:56:44 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Thomas Orca wrote:
Name Family Name wrote:

Small gangs don't need some artificial boost, they need a purpose (and no I don't call 'Killmails' a purpose).


What about gudfites?


I thought ~gudfites~ involved hotdropping some moms onto a solo pvp drake.


You don't need that much and you know it, you've even posted lol videos on youtube with a couple cloacky friends ganking ratters.
Now you're pretending your opinion about gudfites or about how honorable it is to drop a carrier on whatever drake, actually matters?

Give us a break plz Lol

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#92 - 2012-12-29 20:58:54 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
lol does Gillia really think removing local would help small corps/alliances in 0.0?


The worst of all is he truly believes it, no wonder null will ever get the boosts it deserves.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2012-12-29 21:07:22 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Which is why we go back to the problem of instant information with Local + d-scan and why the alternative of having the d-scan rely on signature radius becomes so tempting.

After that it is up to the players when it comes to how to utilize an environment where it takes a while to figure out if anyone is in a system and if so what ship is flown and it will be up to players whether they want to move small and swift or in a big blob. So what if a small group is chased by a blob? The small group will then have the advantage of detecting the blob before the blob detects the small group. That gives the small group a chance of getting the hell out, or if they are crazy enough, even attempt some kind of ambush by hiding in anomalies. Regardless of how things play out there will at least be a lot more possible outcomes because there is no instant information available to either side which automatically eliminates quite a few options.


Toss in the removal of structure mails (another instant information tool that promotes blobs) and you have my vote. Information through effort.


Well, to be perfectly honest, I am a bit torn on this one. I definitely get your point but I don't know if removing this entirely is such a good idea as well. The problem lies not as much with the warning email as the whole system involved in taking down a PoS with the whole reinforcement invulnerability time and all that.

On one hand being able to pop a PoS in one go would benefit attackers too much regardless of warning emails and the strength of the defender. On the other hand, a rather lengthy preparation time will always benefit the stronger side, regardless of whether he is an attacker or defender, meaning that attacking the biggest alliances is kinda...risky and probably not worth the time for most. Doubly so if you take the lovely cyno/bridging into consideration.

Some compromise would have to be found in this particular issue. Delayed message due to jamming or some such, I dunno. It's a tough nut regardless. Besides, CCP have been talking about looking into PoS's. Whether that includes warfare I wouldn't really know though.
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2012-12-29 21:08:39 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
lol does Gillia really think removing local would help small corps/alliances in 0.0?

They'll never see the titan blob coming :v:


Titans can fly in high-sec nowadays? Who on earth ever said that all attacks would come from null?
Luanda Heartbreaker
#95 - 2012-12-29 22:50:31 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Why are you so afraid of the unknown?

Why do you only ever post rhetoric?


cos she cant say any usefull, but she has to fill the space. just like in 0.0
cheese monkey
NuKeDD
NuKeDD.
#96 - 2012-12-29 22:59:48 UTC
Have you actually tried to PVP in null ina frigate these days?

NPC AI changes make small frigate gangs a thing of the past.

--

http://eveboard.com/ub/627817229-39.png
Name Family Name
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#97 - 2012-12-29 23:30:33 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Name Family Name wrote:


Small gangs [...] need a purpose

Shooting structures isn't a great purpose for small gang either.



Yes - they don't serve any meaningful one (killmails and gudfites aren't).

It's what I implied by mentioning they are in need of one.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#98 - 2012-12-30 01:21:34 UTC
Quote:
Yep. The problem with that is that, of course, the small group can field N gangs, while the Larger group can field 2N gangs, meaning that, even if the small group wins every battle they fight, the larger group will win the war in smashing style, having N unattended targets for every round of fighting.

Creating important targets that can only be efficiently fought over by small gangs actually magnifies the power of a larger group.


Of course it does. It's a core part of the game that having friends makes everything work better. EVE is a social game.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2012-12-30 02:44:32 UTC
cheese monkey wrote:
Have you actually tried to PVP in null ina frigate these days?

NPC AI changes make small frigate gangs a thing of the past.

Last I checked you don't fight against NPCs when you PVP.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#100 - 2012-12-30 04:59:29 UTC
cheese monkey wrote:
Have you actually tried to PVP in null ina frigate these days?

NPC AI changes make small frigate gangs a thing of the past.


Given that the AI switches instantly to newcomers in anomalies, even if those newcomers haven't taken any hostile action towards the rats whatsoever, most any sort of solo PvP in null is kind of a pain these days. Supposedly it's a bug, but I haven't heard anything about fixing it.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal