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"Make smaller better"
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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#201 - 2013-01-03 01:49:26 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Dangit Zim, you swoop in and cover all the points I've been trying to make (and more) and do it far better than I can.

And it'll be ignored just as handily as your posts have been, in favor of "hurr nullsec is ebul" sperg, I'm sure. Cry

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#202 - 2013-01-03 02:07:34 UTC
Wasn't the ability to have small gang PvP the reason behind the creation of Wormhole space it the first place?


No hiding from the blob while they throw insults at you is not much fun.

But then again look at it this way if they were to actually make Sov usage based then they would have to come out and mine, rat ect.. all over the place even if there is an AFK cloaker in the system.

Sounds like a lot nicer environment to kill some ratters.

But really I can see no reason for CCP to try to make small groups better in Null when they went to all the trouble to make Wormholes in the first place.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#203 - 2013-01-03 04:02:06 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
I completely agree - large groups *should* have advantages over smaller groups. However, one would hope that small well organized groups would have a chance of waging an effective guerrilla war. The implication would be that there should exist tactics which favor high communication, coordination, and potentially practice over people simply being thrown into a home defense fleet.


There are. This is the reason why the scrub BS fleet composition has disappeared from serious contention. The "problem" is that the "dirty skillless blobbers" are using these tactics just as effectively as the "elite PvPers" are, and effectively leveraging their larger numbers to beat the pants off of them.

Quote:
However, the flip side of that is that the larger entity should absolutely hulk smash any static assets the guerrillas manage to erect. It is not reasonable to ask for small groups to compete with large groups in sov warfare. That's why I'd prefer to see more mechanics like WH space added instead of try to modify or nerf null sec.

-Liang


And we agree. (Though I think there's a lot of ways Null should be modified, but those are on other issues.)

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Aston Martin DB5
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#204 - 2013-01-03 07:58:49 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Hmmm... I dunno, but I'll take a stab: Change boosting mechanics to include a "law of diminishing returns" so that boosts give out more bonus to smaller fleets and less boost to larger ones.

So, say, a 10% boost could just up to 20% if the fleet is 5 people or less, or drop to only 5% if the fleet is over 20 people. Just an example. You get the idea. Realistically it would have to be scaled with more complex math (and I hate math, so you do it).

Justification would be simulating that it's easier to manage smaller groups than larger ones. Less strain on computers etc.



IdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdeaIdea ding ding ding
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#205 - 2013-01-03 08:06:41 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
I completely agree - large groups *should* have advantages over smaller groups. However, one would hope that small well organized groups would have a chance of waging an effective guerrilla war. The implication would be that there should exist tactics which favor high communication, coordination, and potentially practice over people simply being thrown into a home defense fleet.

There are. This is the reason why the scrub BS fleet composition has disappeared from serious contention. The "problem" is that the "dirty skillless blobbers" are using these tactics just as effectively as the "elite PvPers" are, and effectively leveraging their larger numbers to beat the pants off of them.

You tend to see wierd stuff like when, for example you are shooting some IRCs

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#206 - 2013-01-03 08:25:36 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Dangit Zim, you swoop in and cover all the points I've been trying to make (and more) and do it far better than I can.

And it'll be ignored just as handily as your posts have been, in favor of "hurr nullsec is ebul" sperg, I'm sure. Cry

Not ebul, just boring.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#207 - 2013-01-03 09:22:13 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
I completely agree - large groups *should* have advantages over smaller groups. However, one would hope that small well organized groups would have a chance of waging an effective guerrilla war. The implication would be that there should exist tactics which favor high communication, coordination, and potentially practice over people simply being thrown into a home defense fleet.


There are. This is the reason why the scrub BS fleet composition has disappeared from serious contention. The "problem" is that the "dirty skillless blobbers" are using these tactics just as effectively as the "elite PvPers" are, and effectively leveraging their larger numbers to beat the pants off of them.


... which compounds the EvE stigma keeping away many competitive PvPers.

Whatever PvP MMO I play, I tend to ask the peeps I meet if they ever played EvE, DAoC, WH, DFO and others games.

While the replies about the other games vary a lot, they are always the same about EvE:

- those who played EvE left it because PvP was way too slow to get, way too slow and skill-less as gameplay, way too blob advantaging. All the games I have played - expecially PvP ones - have blobbers, because blobs roll over many opponents without much effort or training. But there are gameplay design that make it harder and less useful to keep rising the blob numbers while making it more open to guerrilla attacks, hits and runs, ambushes and so on.
In EvE you have a linear scaling so you are just better add more and more bodies so the blob is not just "supported" but the obvious choice to go.

- those who did not play EvE are not going to even try it because of them being told the above.

- there is one tournament? Other games have them aplenty.


... and then we have people surprised why EvE has less PvPers and more carebears. Most competitive PvPers are not going to bother with EvE PvP.

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#208 - 2013-01-03 09:25:59 UTC
Newsflash: EVE PVP isn't for the console generation.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#209 - 2013-01-03 09:31:25 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Newsflash: EVE PVP isn't for the console generation.

Ever heard of this game called DUST 514? Like it or not you will have to deal with it soon enough. Planetary bombard with me? Pirate
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#210 - 2013-01-03 09:33:22 UTC
i hear in a couple years from now it might impact terrestrial planets held by faction warfare, but not in a PI way

oooooooh....
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#211 - 2013-01-03 09:37:23 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Ever heard of this game called DUST 514?

It'll suck.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#212 - 2013-01-03 09:46:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Lord Zim wrote:
Newsflash: EVE PVP isn't for the console generation.


Your one liners quote seem to show you as being one of such generation.

I hardly know anyone in other games who are less than 35 old.
Actually the "blobbers generation" is closer to the console generation than the "pro eliters" (or at least those who would want to pretend to be one).

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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#213 - 2013-01-03 09:47:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:

There are. This is the reason why the scrub BS fleet composition has disappeared from serious contention. The "problem" is that the "dirty skillless blobbers" are using these tactics just as effectively as the "elite PvPers" are, and effectively leveraging their larger numbers to beat the pants off of them.


... which compounds the EvE stigma keeping away many competitive PvPers.

Whatever PvP MMO I play, I tend to ask the peeps I meet if they ever played EvE, DAoC, WH, DFO and others games.

lol what do they compete at, who can be the last active account on the server?

anyway, I'll continue to go to EVE to watch and take part devious social engineering schemes and overarcing dramas involving the scattering of thousands of players that play out through direct conflict, subterfuge, economic and psychological warfare over the over the course of months, sometimes years - frequently involving strategems of anticipating or infiltrating an enemy's tactics and arriving with a counterfleet (betrayal, social engineering,etc). i'll let your friends wow you with the prowess of keying the right sword with Mana Burn timed with Fireball or whatever.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#214 - 2013-01-03 09:51:43 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Your one liners quote seem to show you as being one of such generation.

You seem to be mistaking succinctness for having a short attention span. This is a fallacy.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#215 - 2013-01-03 10:00:14 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
I shall shoot you from my badger.

WTF, 6 red crosses started to shooting my badger off a gate.
miss
miss
miss
miss
miss
10 pts
miss
miss
miss
miss


******* scarey.
Bring the rifters already.

NPCs, bad at camping gates.


All Guristas ever manage to kill is RZR

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#216 - 2013-01-03 10:06:54 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

lol what do they compete at, who can be the last active account on the server?


... said by someone playing a game whose full online playerbase outside top prime time is 25,000...

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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#217 - 2013-01-03 10:09:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
hook me up with one of these games with 25k+ players on a single sharded world

lmao

edit: http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png

eve has more players online during peak hours, all in the same world, then DAoC for example has active accounts

but I gotta sit here and listen to this dude extol the virtues of these failed games noone plays anymore

like seriously?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#218 - 2013-01-03 10:11:18 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
All Guristas ever manage to kill is RZR

*cough*

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#219 - 2013-01-03 10:16:45 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
All Guristas ever manage to kill is RZR

*cough*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh8mNjeuyV4

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#220 - 2013-01-03 10:32:02 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
hook me up with one of these games with 25k+ players on a single sharded world

lmao

edit: http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png

eve has more players online during peak hours, all in the same world, then DAoC for example has active accounts

but I gotta sit here and listen to this dude extol the virtues of these failed games noone plays anymore

like seriously?


DAoC has been one of the best PvP MMOs ever created.
Their company has long gone due to bad products they delivered *afterwards* and so that now ancient game is now abandoned since years and *surprise* it losts most players.

Who could imagine that, eh? But I guess if CCP sold EvE to EA like Mythic did then closed down and EvE would stay on life support for 5-6 years EvE subs would stay 25k, confirm or deny?

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