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Remaps, the ongoing subject...
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De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2012-12-28 15:08:40 UTC
DEFIER ORILIS wrote:
In fact, Remaps should not exist. It should be a + and - choice at anytime while your skills are paused.

- You should be free to remap your attributes at anytime. My body, my clone, my attributes, my choice.
- Game mechanics and ISK should have nothing to do with my attribute remap choices other than ISK allows me to buy my skills and game mechanics allows me to use my learned skills.


You do realize that attributes ARE a game mechanic, right?

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Frying Doom
#42 - 2012-12-28 15:09:59 UTC
DEFIER ORILIS wrote:
In fact, Remaps should not exist. It should be a + and - choice at anytime while your skills are paused.

- You should be free to remap your attributes at anytime. My body, my clone, my attributes, my choice.
- Game mechanics and ISK should have nothing to do with my attribute remap choices other than ISK allows me to buy my skills and game mechanics allows me to use my learned skills.

So why have attributes at all when everyone would be learning at the same rate anyway?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
DEFIER ORILIS
Defiance Eden Initiative
#43 - 2012-12-28 15:12:25 UTC
Tippia wrote:
DEFIER ORILIS wrote:
In fact, Remaps should not exist. It should be a + and - choice at anytime while your skills are paused.

- You should be free to remap your attributes at anytime. My body, my clone, my attributes, my choice.
- Game mechanics and ISK should have nothing to do with my attribute remap choices other than ISK allows me to buy my skills and game mechanics allows me to use my learned skills.
So what you're actually asking for is the complete removal of attributes.

No.


DANG! where does it say remove attributes in my post? Remapping should be active at anytime,
DEFIER ORILIS
Defiance Eden Initiative
#44 - 2012-12-28 15:15:09 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
DEFIER ORILIS wrote:
In fact, Remaps should not exist. It should be a + and - choice at anytime while your skills are paused.

- You should be free to remap your attributes at anytime. My body, my clone, my attributes, my choice.
- Game mechanics and ISK should have nothing to do with my attribute remap choices other than ISK allows me to buy my skills and game mechanics allows me to use my learned skills.


You do realize that attributes ARE a game mechanic, right?


Thx for the question there! Yes, I think we all know that attributes are game mechanics.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#45 - 2012-12-28 15:15:27 UTC
DEFIER ORILIS wrote:
DANG! where does it say remove attributes in my post? Remapping should be active at anytime,
Here:

“In fact, Remaps should not exist. It should be a + and - choice at anytime while your skills are paused.
- You should be free to remap your attributes at anytime. My body, my clone, my attributes, my choice.”

Attributes are a game mechanic put into the game to ensure that you cannot train any and all skills at max speed at the same time or at any time you want. What you're suggesting is this mechanic is changed so that you can train any and all skills at max speed any time you want. In other words, you are asking for the functional removal of attributes as a game mechanic.

So no.
Abu Tarynnia
Kings-Guard
#46 - 2012-12-28 15:15:29 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Abu Tarynnia wrote:
I was talking of PLEX ... these cost RL money. ISK .. who is talking of ISK ?!
You are. It doesn't matter if it's PLEX or ISK (if anything, it's even worse if it's PLEX, but since you can get your hands on those with ISK it's largely the same). The fact remains: you're paying to bypass core game mechanics. That's makes it an inherently horrible idea that belongs in a fucktarded P2W Facebook game.


He he .. but if your holy EVE has so strong and good core game mechanics why the heck can't I use my Bombs in HighSec ? Why can I change my outlook but not my attributes (except with 365-days cooldown) ?
Because of pure arbitrariness. There is no logical reason why bombs don't work in high sec. This is a game and not RL. And if I as a customer want to buy SP or another remap instead of some cosmetic changes, then hell why not ? CCP earns money, they can afford devs and maybe some better servers and so it's a win/win situation.
*shrug* Nobody would force you to parcitipate, so why do you care ?

YOU CANNOT HAVE MY STUFF!!!!
Merouk Baas
#47 - 2012-12-28 15:17:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Merouk Baas
No, he's right; if we could remap at any time, then it would just mean extra clicks before training each skill. The same effect can be achieved if they give everybody max attributes, or rather max sp/hr and remove the attributes.

IMO also implants are a deterrent to PVP for quite a lot of high-sec players. I'd be for removing attribute implants (and just having effect implants - hardwirings etc).

But, shrug, it's a bunch of work that CCP has to do, and the effect on us is "same training speed as before", so what's the point.

EDIT: Tippia, we do train all skills at max speed all the time, it's just the lack of remaps force us into long 1-year stretches of being frustrated at not being able to train a skill we like. It's currently Int/Mem, then Per/Wil, then Int/Mem, then Per/Wil again, and really if they wanted to keep Leadership skills slow like now they could up the skill ranks.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#48 - 2012-12-28 15:22:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Abu Tarynnia wrote:
He he .. but if your holy EVE has so strong and good core game mechanics why the heck can't I use my Bombs in HighSec ?
False dichotomy. One does not contradict the other.

Quote:
Why can I change my outlook but not my attributes (except with 365-days cooldown) ?
Because you can change your attributes and because your appearance is completely irrelevant.

Quote:
And if I as a customer want to buy SP or another remap instead of some cosmetic changes, then hell why not ? CCP earns money, they can afford devs and maybe some better servers and so it's a win/win situation.
Because the last time they tried, they lost some 10-20% of their customer base and, soon thereafter, had to lay off 20% of their staff, and they realised that when people said “No ******* way” the first time, they meant it. So no, CCP loses money; they lose devs; in fact, everyone loses.

P2W is not consistent with how EVE could or should ever work.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#49 - 2012-12-28 15:24:26 UTC
I just set everything to the same level. Infact I belive I have once again forgotten to add another skill...
Frying Doom
#50 - 2012-12-28 15:25:10 UTC
Abu Tarynnia wrote:
Tippia wrote:

Abu Tarynnia wrote:
I was talking of PLEX ... these cost RL money. ISK .. who is talking of ISK ?!
You are. It doesn't matter if it's PLEX or ISK (if anything, it's even worse if it's PLEX, but since you can get your hands on those with ISK it's largely the same). The fact remains: you're paying to bypass core game mechanics. That's makes it an inherently horrible idea that belongs in a fucktarded P2W Facebook game.


He he .. but if your holy EVE has so strong and good core game mechanics why the heck can't I use my Bombs in HighSec ? Why can I change my outlook but not my attributes (except with 365-days cooldown) ?
Because of pure arbitrariness. There is no logical reason why bombs don't work in high sec. This is a game and not RL. And if I as a customer want to buy SP or another remap instead of some cosmetic changes, then hell why not ? CCP earns money, they can afford devs and maybe some better servers and so it's a win/win situation.
*shrug* Nobody would force you to parcitipate, so why do you care ?

I can answer this

It is that real life money that is talked about in this thread.

Sure you want to pay it but a lot more people will stop paying it to CCP if they allow you to pay it.

Most of us do not want a pay to win game and hell why would we.

After some people have played 10 years and some are just getting to 200 million SP why would they want to continue if you can get to that same achievement with a credit card?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Abu Tarynnia
Kings-Guard
#51 - 2012-12-28 15:34:26 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Abu Tarynnia wrote:
Tippia wrote:

Abu Tarynnia wrote:
I was talking of PLEX ... these cost RL money. ISK .. who is talking of ISK ?!
You are. It doesn't matter if it's PLEX or ISK (if anything, it's even worse if it's PLEX, but since you can get your hands on those with ISK it's largely the same). The fact remains: you're paying to bypass core game mechanics. That's makes it an inherently horrible idea that belongs in a fucktarded P2W Facebook game.


He he .. but if your holy EVE has so strong and good core game mechanics why the heck can't I use my Bombs in HighSec ? Why can I change my outlook but not my attributes (except with 365-days cooldown) ?
Because of pure arbitrariness. There is no logical reason why bombs don't work in high sec. This is a game and not RL. And if I as a customer want to buy SP or another remap instead of some cosmetic changes, then hell why not ? CCP earns money, they can afford devs and maybe some better servers and so it's a win/win situation.
*shrug* Nobody would force you to parcitipate, so why do you care ?

I can answer this

It is that real life money that is talked about in this thread.

Sure you want to pay it but a lot more people will stop paying it to CCP if they allow you to pay it.

Most of us do not want a pay to win game and hell why would we.

After some people have played 10 years and some are just getting to 200 million SP why would they want to continue if you can get to that same achievement with a credit card?


Money rulez the world .. real as well as virtuell.

YOU CANNOT HAVE MY STUFF!!!!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#52 - 2012-12-28 15:35:46 UTC
Abu Tarynnia wrote:
Money rulez the world .. real as well as virtuell.
…and that is why P2W won't happen in EVE no matter how much you'd like it to: because the money has already spoken, and has said a very definitive “no”.
Frying Doom
#53 - 2012-12-28 15:39:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Tippia wrote:
Abu Tarynnia wrote:
Money rulez the world .. real as well as virtuell.
…and that is why P2W won't happen in EVE no matter how much you'd like it to: because the money has already spoken, and has said a very definitive “no”.

Something very weird is happening for me to be agreeing with you.

But the money of the 400k plus players have already spoken and said we will not tolerate pay to win.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Merouk Baas
#54 - 2012-12-28 15:43:52 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
we will not tolerate play to win.


You mean PAY to win, right? Cause I sure am playing to win.
Pandora Barzane
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2012-12-28 15:49:06 UTC
Tippia wrote:
DEFIER ORILIS wrote:
DANG! where does it say remove attributes in my post? Remapping should be active at anytime,
Here:

“In fact, Remaps should not exist. It should be a + and - choice at anytime while your skills are paused.
- You should be free to remap your attributes at anytime. My body, my clone, my attributes, my choice.”

Attributes are a game mechanic put into the game to ensure that you cannot train any and all skills at max speed at the same time or at any time you want. What you're suggesting is this mechanic is changed so that you can train any and all skills at max speed any time you want. In other words, you are asking for the functional removal of attributes as a game mechanic.



I dont agree with OP, but he didnt asked for removal of attributes. I know its a hobby of yours, but stop putting words into someone's elses mouth. Its getting painfully obvious now.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#56 - 2012-12-28 15:51:54 UTC
Pandora Barzane wrote:
I dont agree with OP, but he didnt asked for removal of attributes.
…apart from in the section quoted, where he did exactly that. It's not really putting words in someone's mouth if the words came out of that mouth, now is it?
Frying Doom
#57 - 2012-12-28 15:54:37 UTC
Merouk Baas wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
we will not tolerate play to win.


You mean PAY to win, right? Cause I sure am playing to win.

Sorry my mistake, very late in my TZ lol

Would be a good one though imagine the marketing.

You can buy this game but you can not play it, no play to win here Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#58 - 2012-12-28 15:56:25 UTC
DEFIER ORILIS wrote:
Remaps should be an item in the market like anything else you can make, sell or buy.
EVE is not about limitation, it is about expansion. We should be able to buy as many as needed.
I see no problem controlling your implants anytime you want to learn with another attribute.
After all it is your body, you should control it.

Why are we limited to just one a year?

Thx, DEFIER.


This post just begs for a dislike system.
Not gone happen I know, still would be nice for future reference.
Pandora Barzane
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2012-12-28 15:58:47 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Pandora Barzane wrote:
I dont agree with OP, but he didnt asked for removal of attributes.
…apart from in the section quoted, where he did exactly that. It's not really putting words in someone's mouth if the words came out of that mouth, now is it?


and here you do it again. wow youre really good at this.
DEFIER ORILIS
Defiance Eden Initiative
#60 - 2012-12-28 16:04:14 UTC
Pak Narhoo wrote:
DEFIER ORILIS wrote:
Remaps should be an item in the market like anything else you can make, sell or buy.
EVE is not about limitation, it is about expansion. We should be able to buy as many as needed.
I see no problem controlling your implants anytime you want to learn with another attribute.
After all it is your body, you should control it.

Why are we limited to just one a year?

Thx, DEFIER.


This post just begs for a dislike system.
Not gone happen I know, still would be nice for future reference.


Dang! Why is that, I was just asking a question about remaps.