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how are the new destroyers?
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Vrexstus Mercana
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-12-27 16:27:13 UTC
thinking about getting a corax for mission running are they worth anything i know the corm isnt really popular

"You Exist because we allow it....And you will die because we demand it.."
Ginger Barbarella
#2 - 2012-12-27 16:33:15 UTC
Vrexstus Mercana wrote:
thinking about getting a corax for mission running are they worth anything i know the corm isnt really popular


Paper tigers. The Minmatar one is great for low end DED and COSMOS tag-wh0ring, but aside from that...

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Vrexstus Mercana
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-12-27 16:34:45 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Vrexstus Mercana wrote:
thinking about getting a corax for mission running are they worth anything i know the corm isnt really popular


Paper tigers. The Minmatar one is great for low end DED and COSMOS tag-wh0ring, but aside from that...



paper tigers?

"You Exist because we allow it....And you will die because we demand it.."
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-12-27 16:36:40 UTC
Vrexstus Mercana wrote:


paper tigers?


Only looks good on the paper I guess, or CCP employed an origami master for their new ship designs. :)

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Vrexstus Mercana
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-12-27 16:45:48 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
Vrexstus Mercana wrote:


paper tigers?


Only looks good on the paper I guess, or CCP employed an origami master for their new ship designs. :)



so im basically trolled by looks and not power?

holy fk

"You Exist because we allow it....And you will die because we demand it.."
Ginger Barbarella
#6 - 2012-12-27 16:47:18 UTC
Vrexstus Mercana wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
Vrexstus Mercana wrote:


paper tigers?


Only looks good on the paper I guess, or CCP employed an origami master for their new ship designs. :)



so im basically trolled by looks and not power?

holy fk


Power means crap if it's too weak to tank worth a damn. That is what "paper tiger" means. Every hear of "glass jaw" in a boxer? Same diff.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Vrexstus Mercana
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-12-27 16:49:28 UTC
and here i was thinking that the ywould be worth something o well

"You Exist because we allow it....And you will die because we demand it.."
Etherealclams
#8 - 2012-12-27 16:54:58 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Vrexstus Mercana wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
Vrexstus Mercana wrote:


paper tigers?


Only looks good on the paper I guess, or CCP employed an origami master for their new ship designs. :)



so im basically trolled by looks and not power?

holy fk


Power means crap if it's too weak to tank worth a damn. That is what "paper tiger" means. Every hear of "glass jaw" in a boxer? Same diff.


The term usually used is glass cannon.

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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#9 - 2012-12-27 16:56:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Vrexstus Mercana wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
Vrexstus Mercana wrote:


paper tigers?


Only looks good on the paper I guess, or CCP employed an origami master for their new ship designs. :)



so im basically trolled by looks and not power?

holy fk


Power means crap if it's too weak to tank worth a damn. That is what "paper tiger" means. Every hear of "glass jaw" in a boxer? Same diff.

Destroyers as a class have always been all about offense instead of defense, so yes they are not really geared towards mission running.

Actually the term "Paper Tiger" refers to martial arts "masters" that got their belts by being able to pass tests based on form and technique instead of actual combat ability. This is why most reputable martial arts disciplines require a certain amount of full contact sparring or tournament activity in addition to demonstrations of form and technique via perfect execution of a Kata.

So that term is not really quite right for describing the Destroyer class, as they do the job they were designed to do very well.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-12-27 16:56:36 UTC
Vrexstus Mercana wrote:
and here i was thinking that the ywould be worth something o well



they are its called pvp...

combat frigs are your pve ships of choice... due to good dps and great tanks...

well for lower missions...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Kery Nysell
#11 - 2012-12-27 16:56:51 UTC
Can't say that I agree ...

I've tanked 185K bounty BCs in 0.2 sec with my Algos and "only" an EANM and a SAR, while orbiting at 15 kms ...

And I've done a whole bunch of L2 missions in my Corax against Cruisers, with 2 passive hardeners and a small Shield Booster, without problems ... the key is Light Missile Launchers and range there.

Yes, they're not heavy tankers. But they pack a very reasonable punch for such a small hull, and I think you'll be fine using a Corax for L2 missions, provided you know what you're doing.

...
Ginger Barbarella
#12 - 2012-12-27 17:24:13 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Actually the term "Paper Tiger" refers to martial arts "masters" that got their belts by being able to pass tests based on form and technique instead of actual combat ability.


I've never heard of it refered to like that. Check wikipedia if you're looking for a correct analogy. Basically, all bark, no bite.

Irrespective of local definitions, like the Tier 3 BCs, it's purpose is not in something like missions, it's meant for a very specific role. Don't expect it to last long when getting shot at by another pilot (flying under the tracking of an NPC battlecruiser really doesn't count).

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Jenavee De'amore
New LIfe corp
#13 - 2012-12-27 17:35:30 UTC
I used the Corax to complete Level 2 missions when I started with a new faction mission agent. It was more just the novelty of using the new tier 3 destroyer than anything else why I used it but it seemed to sail through the missions easily enough. DPS output is decent, but like previous posters mentioned it is a glass cannon. I'll contract you one a across so you can make up your mind yourself :)

Jena o/
Scrofulous Vermin
Corsair Cartel
#14 - 2012-12-27 18:44:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Scrofulous Vermin
Ranger 1 wrote:
Actually the term "Paper Tiger" refers to martial arts "masters" that got their belts by being able to pass tests based on form and technique instead of actual combat ability.

The prase is significantly older than that, though the usage you describe would be in keeping with the original meaning. In China, the phrase is so ancient that its origins cannot easily be traced.

"Outwardly a tiger, it is made of paper, unable to withstand the wind and the rain."
~ Mao Zedong


Edit:
Oh, and in regards to the Corax: With the right skills, I've seen volleys north of 1400, and that's not exactly a mild sneeze. 'Glass cannon' seems appropriate.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#15 - 2012-12-27 18:49:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Actually the term "Paper Tiger" refers to martial arts "masters" that got their belts by being able to pass tests based on form and technique instead of actual combat ability.


I've never heard of it refered to like that. Check wikipedia if you're looking for a correct analogy. Basically, all bark, no bite.

Irrespective of local definitions, like the Tier 3 BCs, it's purpose is not in something like missions, it's meant for a very specific role. Don't expect it to last long when getting shot at by another pilot (flying under the tracking of an NPC battlecruiser really doesn't count).

Wikipedia only goes so far as to point out it's Chinese origins, I was attempting to give a bit of insight on it's more common usage and meaning.

You are quite correct though, aside from missions where kiting tactics are viable, they really aren't ideal mission running vessels. If it's a mission that can be completed by a Stealth Bomber without a cloak, then it's a mission you can attempt reasonably well in a Destroyer.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#16 - 2012-12-27 19:00:27 UTC
As noted, they are long on offense and mild on defense.

After the fix, they now do real well at popping frigs (and Catalysts are now one of the premium gankships of choice).

You can sail thru most L1 missions in them, and even alot of the L2's, providing that you kite the mission; if you warp into alot of NPC rats, you are probably gonna die.

I did many L2's in my railfit Catalyst, and the new Corax and Algos can kite very well too. The Corax, in fact, is a motherfracking BEAST. The Cormorant isn't bad either, now that it has multiple low slots.

But yeah, eventually you are going to have to get a cruiser to run those L2's. Eventually.

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And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#17 - 2012-12-27 19:02:29 UTC
The new destroyers are fine.

How are you?

The Tears Must Flow
Vrexstus Mercana
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-12-28 00:56:31 UTC
ive still got 11 days fpr a manticore oh the waiting lol.

"You Exist because we allow it....And you will die because we demand it.."
Sir Diablos
Requiem Knowledge
#19 - 2012-12-28 01:24:23 UTC
New.

I sometimes have to wonder when the harshness of space was replaced with the soft foamy feel of a theme park.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#20 - 2012-12-28 01:29:50 UTC
I like them personally, and they tank better than suggested here. They're still a Destroyer after all. Maybe it's just because no ones had the chance to EFT them yet.

I haven't tried the Amarr design, but the Algos, Corax, and Talwar are all very interesting. Algos active tanks fairly well, Corax should get a decent buffer shield tank, and the Talwar of course has the MWD sig penlty reduction so it can speed tank nicely. I still have to test it in a real sit., but I'm impressed with what I've seen so far.

Except for the Talwar, these aren't really PvP ships. Even the Talwar is iffy when it comes to that. But, they can be used as PvP ships, provided they are fit right and you don't expect to run into any heavies. I think they should be great for your usual Faction Warfare games, and possibly in RvB and similar situations where you're only really expecting T1 Frigates, Dessies, and Cruisers. Anything more than that and I think you'll be in for more of a fight than you are really looking for.
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