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A few solutions to balance FW properly.
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Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#41 - 2012-12-28 14:23:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
JaneBudden wrote:
if we doo all theese changes you want :
dont forget to remove ecm from caldari mission rats....

ah and well move jita to gal space please
otherwise all theese little farmers will go caldari again

-> just decrease the money for plexes and add 1 low dps spawn and we will be fine


btw im just wondering are the FW guys the only ones who are posting with their main on the forums Big smile




I've never under stood why you guys always complain about ECM rats specially now that there are skills to negate a lot of that. Let me give you a tip.. When you run Caldari FW missions solo in a bomber, you normally fit your ship with 2x sensor boosters with range scripts. This is because Gal NPC have damps and they make it so you can't target.

Lets just think for one moment .. Stealth Bombers have naturally high sensor strength.. So instead of adding those 2x sensor boosters you simply add 2x ECCM. I can't remember the exact fit but you can do quite a few of the Gal LVL 4's solo in a stealth bomber. Yes there are 2 or 3 that are too hard but that's due to the missile spam not the ECM.

With the new skills you could likely get away with 1 ECM & a sensor booster that would allow you to do all the missions.. However I bet you guys never actually tried and just complained about it instead. Blink

You could of course always do the easy out and just take aggro with an alt in a ceptor and dps with the bomber. That's the most efficient way anyway.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#42 - 2012-12-28 14:29:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Mekhana wrote:
If the situation was the opposite you'd not be here complaining.

Just saying.


The situation was opposite and I also brought that up, even in this topic. At one point Caldari had all the farmers on our side and Gals could do next to nothing to deal with them. GalMil took the same stance at that time that Caldari does today, that it's not worth fighting the farmers. The farmers have always been screwing up the Sov War from the time they added LP's to plexes.

It wasn't til the Min farmers started showing up in hoards that you guys finally started to take systems. One would think that GalMil pilots would not be so short sighted as to not to support the doing away of farmers because you might just end up back in the same position you were in before.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#43 - 2012-12-28 14:47:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Trinkets friend wrote:
Pre-Retribution, FW was Thrashers Online.

Now it is Thrashers & Mallers Online (with Augorors Online supporting them). So I agree there needs to be something done to encourage BC and BS usage in faction warfare space. I haven't undocked my Cyclone in months.

Not that this is all bad; the T1 cruiser buff has reinvigorated the class, and FW is now (due to the plex spawn frequency) the pre-eminent place to go for T1 cruiser PVP. Maybe that is how it should be and this is the lot of FW. Would I be completely disappointed if whenever I flew in FW it was in a T1 frig, dessie or cruiser? No.

As for the complaints about FW plexing and farmers. Well, people will farm, no matter what. Making missions more lucrative than plexing is not the solution; right now a bunch of strategists in the Minmatar militia subscribe to the theory that they need to push L4 to reattract the farming alts. They do this by farming basically risk-free 100K's worth of LP's from bulk spawning FW level 4's and bulk donating LP's to i-hubs, to push all systems to level 5 and toss up a massive buffer. This helps cement Tier 3 and soon Tier 4, and thus...farming alts.

The solution, to me, is to normalise FW missions or remove them entirely. This will make the game entirely about FW plexing. And yes, you will not get equality between opposing militias at all times. There will always be an underdog. There will always be vast swathes of territory heavily contested by the "losing" side, which can then push and flip and dump P's and cash out themselves once every so often.

But you won't have megatonnes of basically free LP's flooding into the market from missions, being spent on consciously attracting farmers, which then perpetuates inequalities with militias.

A peripheral change would also be to make effective covert cloaking ships in the destroyer and frigate class which are capable of ganking combat frigates. This will allow defenders to camp plexes and hotdrop people, which favors defenders.

But I don't think that the solutions presented by Mutnin are entirely plausible fixes or sensible changes to emchanics. Especially not biasing towards missions, which suits the rich who have alts and Tengus with covert subs.



I understand what you are saying about removing the missions, but the problem I see with that, is it's more of a single war front solution rather than thinking about the 4 militia's together. Added to this doing that would actually penalize the winning side for actually winning, unless CCP made defense payout just same as offense.

Example under that situation the Gals would have no way to make ISK despite the fact they were winning, simply because they had no systems left to plex. IMO that wouldn't be right and it would discourage winning the war. It would also just encourage them to flock over to the Minmatar side to farm Amarr plexes into oblivion and destroy any sort of balance there. Meaning we end up in same situation we face today of having a bunch of gypsy farmers rotating battle fronts.

As long as easy ISK/LP is in FW then we will have a farming problem. My idea simply pushes them back to running missions so they don't affect the Sov War. If we are going to have a Sov War then it should be about PVP and not about farmers. People farm everything in EVE, they farm asteroid belts, anoms, missions, invention, tags ect..ect.. Farming is just a way of EVE, so instead of thinking we can get rid of it, we should just try to place it in an area that doesn't affect the PVP aspects of FW.
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#44 - 2012-12-28 15:00:28 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
There is no point to try to fix FW anymore, CCP has done all they will done and thats it.

Better to look something else to do.


The problem with factional warfare is the players and that one side can "win" factional warfare v0v

I've said this multiple times in the past. You might as well turn it into a complete arena like RVB with so many rules that its not REAL PVP.

I've always found people who cont. to go on about factional warfare and fixing it a joke.

To reiterate!

The dudes suggesting fixes are the problem. Corps or alliances working together to "win" is the problem. Making factional warfare just what it was and what its worth is. A big ******* war dec is the solution.

Which means. Allowing relatively easy and profitable factional warfare missioning. Removing everything to do with system control and loving each helps.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#45 - 2012-12-28 16:01:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Major Killz wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
There is no point to try to fix FW anymore, CCP has done all they will done and thats it.

Better to look something else to do.


The problem with factional warfare is the players and that one side can "win" factional warfare v0v

I've said this multiple times in the past. You might as well turn it into a complete arena like RVB with so many rules that its not REAL PVP.

I've always found people who cont. to go on about factional warfare and fixing it a joke.

To reiterate!

The dudes suggesting fixes are the problem. Corps or alliances working together to "win" is the problem. Making factional warfare just what it was and what its worth is. A big ******* war dec is the solution.

Which means. Allowing relatively easy and profitable factional warfare missioning. Removing everything to do with system control and loving each helps.


I can't say that I disagree with what you have said about the giant war dec. I personally like FW more when it wasn't about the Sov war. It was nice when you just logged in and the focus was trying to get a fight rather than trying to get guys to go defend some system.

It's why I liked the old system TBH. If I needed to make ISK I did a mission run when ever I wanted and cashed out my LP's at my convenience. I then undocked and just had random PVP, be it in a gang or solo. Almost no one cared about who held the most systems out side forum trolling and the focus was about PVP.

It was never really about Sov War until CCP decided to use FW as their null sec test bed, the sov war was just a optional thing that was mostly done by the guys that wasted to RP for their faction.

I personally just try to offer some sort of solution because I miss the way FW used to be and hope we can get it back.
JaneBudden
Spiritus Draconis
#46 - 2012-12-28 16:56:52 UTC  |  Edited by: JaneBudden
Mutnin wrote:



I've never under stood why you guys always complain about ECM rats specially now that there are skills to negate a lot of that. Let me give you a tip.. When you run Caldari FW missions solo in a bomber, you normally fit your ship with 2x sensor boosters with range scripts. This is because Gal NPC have damps and they make it so you can't target.

Lets just think for one moment .. Stealth Bombers have naturally high sensor strength.. So instead of adding those 2x sensor boosters you simply add 2x ECCM. I can't remember the exact fit but you can do quite a few of the Gal LVL 4's solo in a stealth bomber. Yes there are 2 or 3 that are too hard but that's due to the missile spam not the ECM.

With the new skills you could likely get away with 1 ECM & a sensor booster that would allow you to do all the missions.. However I bet you guys never actually tried and just complained about it instead. Blink

You could of course always do the easy out and just take aggro with an alt in a ceptor and dps with the bomber. That's the most efficient way anyway.


that 2 pilot solution would meen caldari > gallente again so solo is the way:-)
i allways did missions in a Myrm when i was solo (to bad missile skills^^/dont laugh at me)
but : wouldnt caldari rats missiles murder you when you use the slots for eccm insteat of tank on you stealthbomber :-)
well whatever i was joking that if you do all the changes we still wont have it fair, because farmers will choose the easy side even if its just the jita access

lol dit you edit your post or am i too drunk you wrote that stuff about the missiles^^
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#47 - 2012-12-28 17:21:35 UTC
JaneBudden wrote:
Mutnin wrote:



I've never under stood why you guys always complain about ECM rats specially now that there are skills to negate a lot of that. Let me give you a tip.. When you run Caldari FW missions solo in a bomber, you normally fit your ship with 2x sensor boosters with range scripts. This is because Gal NPC have damps and they make it so you can't target.

Lets just think for one moment .. Stealth Bombers have naturally high sensor strength.. So instead of adding those 2x sensor boosters you simply add 2x ECCM. I can't remember the exact fit but you can do quite a few of the Gal LVL 4's solo in a stealth bomber. Yes there are 2 or 3 that are too hard but that's due to the missile spam not the ECM.

With the new skills you could likely get away with 1 ECM & a sensor booster that would allow you to do all the missions.. However I bet you guys never actually tried and just complained about it instead. Blink

You could of course always do the easy out and just take aggro with an alt in a ceptor and dps with the bomber. That's the most efficient way anyway.


that 2 pilot solution would meen caldari > gallente again so solo is the way:-)
i allways did missions in a Myrm when i was solo (to bad missile skills^^/dont laugh at me)
but : wouldnt caldari rats missiles murder you when you use the slots for eccm insteat of tank on you stealthbomber :-)
well whatever i was joking that if you do all the changes we still wont have it fair, because farmers will choose the easy side even if its just the jita access

lol dit you edit your post or am i too drunk you wrote that stuff about the missiles^^


You need t2 torps, a faction AB for speed & missile range rigs when doing them solo. It's not as easy as doing Minmatar or Caldari but it's doable. As far as using 2 alts I personally saw no difference between any of the factions. With exception when you run Amarr LVL 4's you needed to get in close to the NPC's and web the Minmatar BS's which can cause issues when you get new spawns and try to cloak.
ground ctrl
Goose Swarm Coalition
#48 - 2012-12-28 20:55:54 UTC  |  Edited by: ground ctrl
Mutnin wrote:
Major Killz wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
There is no point to try to fix FW anymore, CCP has done all they will done and thats it.

Better to look something else to do.


The problem with factional warfare is the players and that one side can "win" factional warfare v0v

I've said this multiple times in the past. You might as well turn it into a complete arena like RVB with so many rules that its not REAL PVP.

I've always found people who cont. to go on about factional warfare and fixing it a joke.

To reiterate!

The dudes suggesting fixes are the problem. Corps or alliances working together to "win" is the problem. Making factional warfare just what it was and what its worth is. A big ******* war dec is the solution.

Which means. Allowing relatively easy and profitable factional warfare missioning. Removing everything to do with system control and loving each helps.


I can't say that I disagree with what you have said about the giant war dec. I personally like FW more when it wasn't about the Sov war. It was nice when you just logged in and the focus was trying to get a fight rather than trying to get guys to go defend some system.

It's why I liked the old system TBH. If I needed to make ISK I did a mission run when ever I wanted and cashed out my LP's at my convenience. I then undocked and just had random PVP, be it in a gang or solo. Almost no one cared about who held the most systems out side forum trolling and the focus was about PVP.

It was never really about Sov War until CCP decided to use FW as their null sec test bed, the sov war was just a optional thing that was mostly done by the guys that wasted to RP for their faction.

I personally just try to offer some sort of solution because I miss the way FW used to be and hope we can get it back.


RvB is too far removed from any context to hold most peoples interest for long. Faction war had the same problem before inferno.

The consequences can be done in an smart way which would make faction war occupancy war, a great, fun game. Sadly those who worked on it put very little thought into what they were doing and instead just gave knee jerk reactions. Hence even after 2 expansions worth of work it is still not very attrative to many beyond thos who like grinding isk.

-Cearain's alt
Dan Carter Murray
#49 - 2012-12-28 20:57:58 UTC
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
my 2 isk:

  1. system upgrades need to be changed.
  2. tier needs to be changed.
  3. tier benefits need to be changed.


tier should be based solely on % of systems owned.
in other words there are 70 systems in amarr/minmatar FW.
amarr owns 21 and minmatar owns 49.
amarr have have 30% control so tier 2 and minmatar have 70% control so tier 4.

tier benefits
tier 1: 0% increased LP
tier 2: 5% increased LP
tier 3: 10% increased LP
tier 4: 15% increased LP, 0 LP for defensive plexing
tier 5: 20% increased LP, 0 LP for defensive plexing

change the system upgrade **** though.
level 0: nothing
level 1: 5% cheaper clones, 5% cheaper market orders, 5% plex rat dmg, 5% plex rat armor/shield repair, 5% plex rat armor/shield/structure
level 2: 10% cheaper clones, 10% cheaper market orders, 10% plex rat dmg, 10% plex rat armor/shield repair, 10% plex rat armor/shield/structure
level 3: 15% cheaper clones, 15% cheaper market orders, 15% plex rat dmg, 15% plex rat armor/shield repair, 15% plex rat armor/shield/structure
level 4: 20% cheaper clones, 20% cheaper market orders, 20% plex rat dmg, 20% plex rat armor/shield repair, 20% plex rat armor/shield/structure
level 5: 25% cheaper clones, 25% cheaper market orders, 25% plex rat dmg, 25% plex rat armor/shield repair, 25% plex rat armor/shield/structure

buffer: plexes time down when no enemies are inside (only times down back to original 0 time), plex NPCs scram and web in addition to their increased dmg, repping, and total armor/shield/structure hitpoints

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
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