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AI rats attack wrong ship
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Kristof Atruin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-12-26 16:33:45 UTC
Why not start acting more like a uboat? Stalk the target in the site until he's about to kill the last rat, then tackle him. You'll have to find a target dumb enough to not pay attention to local, but I think that would be more satisfying. More like hunting than picking up road kill.
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
#22 - 2012-12-26 17:12:43 UTC
Maria - Wasn't aware of that. Tactical change needed and advice from solo wormhole pilots - if such a person exists. Thanks.
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
#23 - 2012-12-26 17:21:29 UTC
Kristof - that is in fact what I will be doing in future. Doesn't help against the harder T3s though , which were just getting 'doable' for me with the extra DPS provided by the Rats... i was just getting ready to follow some toughter ships into their missions but i will put that on hold.! Is buying the best modules outside the game a bad thing? i might be 60 before I can afford the kit i need to kill these ships....!

Thanks for your post.

Zen Dad
David Zahavi
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-12-26 17:43:18 UTC  |  Edited by: David Zahavi
Zen Dad wrote:
Taking 52%rat damage whilst trying to nibble an uber tanked Drake to death just seemed overkill with the new mechanics.
Not a whine. Just a 'wow'. Is that what they meant to happen ?

Zen Dad


I sure hope its what is meant to happen. If you are the easiest to primary target, it makes sense that the rats should primary you EVERY TIME.

If you really want to go into these sites to gank someone, then fly a ship capable of doing the job, not relying on the npcs to do it for you.

If you need npc's to gank someone, you are doing it wrong, and if anything, it was terrible terrible game design. Luckily it's been fixed.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-12-26 18:11:47 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
The new AI is a good idea but its so broken in many ways that there is never a reliable way to know where aggro is going.


It's meant to be less predictable. The fact that it's hard to predict makes it sound to me as if it's working as intended.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Vin Ott
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-12-26 18:30:59 UTC
lol died to ratting drake and rats, elite pvp
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#27 - 2012-12-26 18:42:31 UTC
your stuff. you may contract it to me at any highsec station. thank you.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Judas Lonestar
Stryker Industries
Stryker Group
#28 - 2012-12-26 19:12:29 UTC
Since you cant seem to think out of the box let me help you adapt old man.

Wait till the Drake kills the rats, THEN jump him.

You are welcome.
Mortis Betruger
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-12-26 20:27:29 UTC
Zen Dad wrote:
My petition was directed here by a Dev. Hope its 'on topic'.
I fly the U boat of Eve the Pilgrim
Just after retribution i tackled a Drake ( it can be done!) in a lo sec radar.
The shock of a sudden de-cloak and the rat damage assists me greatly against superior ships.
However my pilgrim just blew up in record time while i was still trying to launch my hornets to break lock.
I took 48% damage from the the Drake and 52% from the Rats that were initially aggressing the drake
The rats switched aggression to the 'weaker' ship attacking the mighty Drake
Why ? And will this always be so.?

I don't want to risk another ship to test the mechanics.
Essentially my entire game style developed over 2 years is at risk

Any helpful comments and suggestions appreciated

And Merry Christmas to all pilots , docked and in space .



This thread was linked in are Alliance chat. Best laugh I have had in a long time. LOL LOL LOL Big smile
Omen Nihilo
Omen Holdings
#30 - 2012-12-26 21:08:31 UTC
Kristof Atruin wrote:
Why not start acting more like a uboat? Stalk the target in the site until he's about to kill the last rat, then tackle him. You'll have to find a target dumb enough to not pay attention to local, but I think that would be more satisfying. More like hunting than picking up road kill.

Except because of local you have 15-30 seconds to catch someone before they warp off.Roll
Chuxup
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#31 - 2012-12-26 21:17:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Chuxup
Solo PVP to me has always been looking for fights - not looking for ganks. Not to say I won't take a gank if it's handed to me, but if you're complaining about specifically ganking being harder because of a change in the mechanics, grow a pair and do some real PVP.

Also, there are plenty of good opportunities for soloers in null-sec. Not every gate is camped by 30 dudes. You just have to know where to go and be smart about how you move, have tacticals and safes set up in the systems prior to roaming. If you're really worried about running into a camp, make an alt on your account and fly it through the area you're going to roam before going through with your main.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2012-12-26 22:18:48 UTC
2 years! 2 years down the drain!!!

thanks for the laugh Big smile and Happy Holidays.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Tommassino Preldent
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-12-26 22:52:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Tommassino Preldent
Check out a legion, it can very well do the same thing as the pilgrim with more tank. I mean cmon man, ppl were ganking ratters in WHs long before the AI change and its not that hard.
Judas Lonestar
Stryker Industries
Stryker Group
#34 - 2012-12-26 23:41:59 UTC
Tommassino Preldent wrote:
Check out a legion, it can very well do the same thing as the pilgrim with more tank. I mean cmon man, ppl were ganking ratters in WHs long before the AI change and its not that hard.


Yeah, and you get extra satisfaction in knowing your intended victim feels even more hopeless and defeated when you show up right next to him in a Legion vs a Pilgrim.
Hench Tenet
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-12-27 02:05:56 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
I will admit... I had completely forgotten about the Pilgrim in the midst all the new changes.

Spugg Galdon wrote:
I am confused as to why you think your T2 cruiser is weaker than a T1 BC.

Because the only advantages a HAC has over a battlecruiser is speed and size. Battlecruisers simply possess more tank, fitting options, and firepower for a quarter of the price.
Hell... some Tech 1 cruisers are almost, if not just, AS GOOD as their Tech 2 variants (e.g. Thorax and Deimos, Vexor and Ishtar, Moa and Eagle, Caracal and Cerberus).




You serious?
Omen Nihilo
Omen Holdings
#36 - 2012-12-27 03:34:34 UTC
Chuxup wrote:
Solo PVP to me has always been looking for fights - not looking for ganks. Not to say I won't take a gank if it's handed to me, but if you're complaining about specifically ganking being harder because of a change in the mechanics, grow a pair and do some real PVP.

Also, there are plenty of good opportunities for soloers in null-sec. Not every gate is camped by 30 dudes. You just have to know where to go and be smart about how you move, have tacticals and safes set up in the systems prior to roaming. If you're really worried about running into a camp, make an alt on your account and fly it through the area you're going to roam before going through with your main.

You make some good points, but I can't count how many times I got fights because someone came to rescue their tackled buddy... or the carebear I just popped comes back to fight.

Why give more outs to carebears who already have a nearly risk-free environment?
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2012-12-27 04:57:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Crimeo Khamsi
Meditril wrote:
For what reason do you think that rats should not attack you when you uncloak next to them?


Why the hell would the rats blow up a ship that is:
A) Much less of a threat than the drake, and
B) currently HELPING them
??

That's the stupidest possible thing they could do. Thus, they should never do it. Rats exist to serve the goals of rats. Not to encourage combat on a level playing field between third party capsuleers...
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
#38 - 2012-12-27 07:51:18 UTC
Thanks for the comments. Will look at other ships but the training time and ISK are getting beyond me

What is ganking ? Several ppl suggest Im a 'ganker' and Im getting my just punishment
I thought ganking involved overwhelming numbers ? Its always suggested quantity over quality to me?

chuckle and shake your heads but i consider a solo covert kill without backup on a T3 a magnificent job well done , even if there are a few rats on the guy . It can and does go wrong. Its far from easy and not a gank. I had a whine because it appeared that CCP were eroding MY part of eve. I trained and bought a Hulk for solo income and its now a pile of **** . I developed a technique for attacking better players in better ships ( yes. I consider all of you posters better than me ) and CCP appear to have screwed me again.

What also is this emotion that i should "get out there " and have a clean fight. Do armies still march at each other in Red Coats with shiny hats ? Ive jumped a ROFL in his legion who gets away and then challenges me to a " fair fight " - after refitting and making sure he has a mate in the room next door in case it goes pear shaped.

This is changing the thread , but id like to know why SOME of you think its almost immoral to jump a guy my way instead of an open 'clean' fight, if such a thing exists.

So two questions. 1. What is a gank and am i a ganker if i have no back up?
2 Is solo covert somehow dishonourable compared to shredding solo ships in gates , or using bait ships
And 3. :). Is solo really solo if you are interacting with other players?

Solo in Eve still means Sex. - its not masturbation.

Please ameliorate the rat hatred of specific ships such as the pilgrim in lo sec. What happens in a wormhole should stay in the wormhole

Zen Dad
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#39 - 2012-12-27 08:31:24 UTC
Judas Lonestar wrote:
Since you cant seem to think out of the box let me help you adapt old man.

Wait till the Drake kills the rats, THEN jump him.

You are welcome.


I think the point was that he was accustomed to using the rats dps to his advantage when hunting: Pop in on the Ratter while he's engaged and taking damage, point and web him so he can't get away, Neut his cap and watch him die. It doesn't work for him anymore, so now he has a problem with the new AI.

I'm not sure if that's a reasonable argument or not, but it is an argument. Personally, I don't have much sympathy for the OPs POV, but I do understand the purpose of the tactic. It's legit enough as it is.


Drakes are usually passive and buffer tanked, so it's unlikely they'll often have more than 7 active modules on average and that works to the disadvantage of the hunter in this scenario if the assumption of active modules playing a part in the AIs behaviour is correct.

Personally, I'm not arguing if it is or not, so much as acknowledging the possibility. I never paid much attention to it as it wasn't ever that important to me. Something you might want to do if you plan on using these sort of tactics though.
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Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-12-27 10:05:44 UTC
Quote:
I think the point was that he was accustomed to using the rats dps to his advantage when hunting: Pop in on the Ratter while he's engaged and taking damage, point and web him so he can't get away, Neut his cap and watch him die. It doesn't work for him anymore, so now he has a problem with the new AI.


That's just it. It's supposed to be a new AI. Artificial INTELLIGENCE.

Not artificial suicidal stupidity engine.

Attacking the pilgrim in that case is flat out, straight up the absolute wrong decision for a pirate. The thread is aptly titled, and this is indeed a problem with the new NPC coding. Whether it be minor or a side effect or whatever, it is a problem *shrug*