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Is this the best they could do? C'mon folks help them out.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#161 - 2012-12-28 22:06:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
masternerdguy wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Luanda Heartbreaker wrote:

Tyberius Franklin wrote:
It did not end...

yes it did, at least for most of the players. there are many specialised on it, but they are minority of the highsec pilots

A good sign of a balanced activity for groups is that everyone is not doing it but some do and of those some enough to specialize in it. It isn't as populous, but it isn't dead.


So that would mean that level 4 missions and mining are out of balance.

Population wise it won't scale in due to the low effort and cooperation requirements for other activities. Incursions should be less populous that lvl 4's and shouldn't even compare for mining considering the barriers for entry involved.

Not to say that all is balanced, but using the criteria argued, it doesn't work well to your point.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#162 - 2012-12-28 22:30:14 UTC
Luanda Heartbreaker wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

Right, and NPC corps heavily incentivize players playing solo, and force those who don't to accept serious competitive disadvantages to those that do. This is why CCP has been advertising groups like EVE-UNI and RvB as a part of improving the NPE, which means joing player-run corps increases player retention, which means NPC corps hurt player retention.


actually how many times did u leave EVE? this is a nearly 3 years old alt with the SP of a half year old. every time they drop some new stuff I come back to try if i will like it, but they always fail to attract me. And I was part of eve-uni (which is one of the biggest fail of eve, maybe second after goon) if somebody, then I know why i leave eve always, and i know why all my mates have left with the time eve. we are not geeks, we are casual players. nc corps doesnt hurt us, and player run corps dont have any retention (and im in a player run corp, but i will just leave again, as nothing happens in eve which has any retention) the corps u mentioned can have an impact only on 12 yo little guys who dont know what to do alone, but not they are the highsec playerbase, they are exactly as many as many in eve-uni.
Hmmm, who to believe? CCP's marketing statistics analyzing which category of players stay after the trial period or your analogic evidence...

Luanda Heartbreaker wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

This is backwards. The reason 'casual solo players' struggle to make ends meet is because they must compete economically with serious PvE alts nestled in NPC corps, who face no losses or risk and can reinvest their gains into generating even more ISK and commodities, devaluing the true worth and purchasing power of a 'casual solo player''s efforts.

ohhh. tell me how an industrial alt on npc station can make my missionrunning worthless and boring? cos it is

Without loss or competition, the newbie/casual is forced to undercut hardcore PvE alts who constantly reinvest their profits into higher isk-generating items and PLEXing yet more accounts to multibox with. Since risk of losing expensive ships ships due to things like wardecs is not an issue for NPC corps, actual casual players and newbies fall far behind the rmfHorus 60-man L4 Tengu fleet and have no means of closing the gap. The multiboxed pimp boats, devaluing the newbie's paltry sum of ISK, drive up the price of PLEXes and every other commodity thanks to the ISK injection into the player generated economy.
Luanda Heartbreaker
#163 - 2012-12-28 23:05:21 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

Hmmm, who to believe? CCP's marketing statistics analyzing which category of players stay after the trial period or your analogic evidence...


you like to use big words, but actually they mean nothing. do u know how they analyze? I can tell you, i filled their questionnaires every time when i didnt pay my sub for a few months :) i click on random bullets (cos the questionnaires dont contain any acceptable answers) to dont get it more times. it works better than spamfilters

Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

Without loss or competition, the newbie/casual is forced to undercut hardcore PvE alts who constantly reinvest their profits into higher isk-generating items and PLEXing yet more accounts to multibox with. Since risk of losing expensive ships ships due to things like wardecs is not an issue for NPC corps, actual casual players and newbies fall far behind the rmfHorus 60-man L4 Tengu fleet and have no means of closing the gap. The multiboxed pimp boats, devaluing the newbie's paltry sum of ISK, drive up the price of PLEXes and every other commodity thanks to the ISK injection into the player generated economy.


ahhh, so you say they ruin my gameplay, cos they hide in npc corps and with devaluing isk they make my plex more expensive?
Thats a big fail then. the plex prices succesfully went up now to annoying level thats true, but if was quite still for at least 4 years. and to grind in highsec as casual player was the same boring 4 years ago when the plex cost like 280mill. unfortuantely if u want to harm those alts this way, you will also kick the casual players.

also, one of you arguing for nerfing highsec said, he is forced in 0.0 to have a highsec industry alt. now you want to nerf highsec cos ur own highsec alts? i think you miss every common sense
Kendra Chang
State War Academy
Caldari State
#164 - 2012-12-29 09:35:57 UTC
I am in agreement that NPC Corps add little long term value to the game from both a new player perspective and a veteran player. I do believe the "Safety" (as safe as EVE gets) mechanic has purpose and value, but it should diminish over time - allowing those who have suffered a substantial loss to quit the Player-Corp and flee to the "Safety" of the NPC corp -but this should be a short term fix, not a permanent solution.



However, before CCP starts messing further with the NPC Corps mechanic, some serious love is needed for Player-run Corp mechanics in terms of management, wages, stock, all of that good stuff and I'm sure we can find more tweaks to make running a successful Player-Corp more like fun and less like using a cheese grater for genital cleaning (aka our regular day jobs).


e.g:

  • Auto-Payment for Mining/Salvage that doesn't doesnt require me to log in three times a day just to tweak prices.
  • Daily, Weekly and Monthly Incentives and contests with either cash, plex, or item rewards for productivity and willingness to advance the corporate goals. Including: Asteroid type mined, Salvage type found, War Dec targets destroyed / engaged/ damaged, Faction standing increases... etc. etc.
  • A Stock option program that rewards participation in events that result in long term corporate health. (i.e. a previous employee could own Stock in multiple corporations that they have worked for, an helped build... that eventually could go a long way to paying off a monthly sub for an alt. While we're at it - A stock program that is far more meaningful and much less likely to be abused than the current one.


Finally, a cost structure that needs a monthly expenditure that gets (hopefully) offset by the corps members contribution to making the corp successful.


Then for the NPC side

Part of the revamp could be a tiered risk vs reward NPC corps structure.

Tier 1. The newbie NPC Corp we all get stuck in when we first join. Start off for the first 2 or 3 weeks in a 10% Tax corp while you learn the ropes. That tax rate should also come from market sales, not just bounties and missions.


After the starter period, you get to choose which NPC Corp you move to. One with the same low 10% Tax rate but requires you to get involved in Factional Warfare - either as a target - Like working for a corp that advances your faction - perhaps requiring you to mine a certain amount each month for Minedrill, or as an active fighter defending with...say... Home Guard for the Caldari side.

Alternatively you could join a "safe" one with a 15-18% tax rate that allows you to play the same game we have now, just without the few perks of being in a Player run Corp. Again - a tax rate that also effects market transactions. (for example - at 1.5% if the tax rate is 15%) but gives you the safety of not having to worry about PvP.

Having said that, I'd love the option of picking which NPC Corp I want to hang out in for a while... not forced into.


There are lots of ways that "encouraging" players to interract with other players will improve not only the experience but the retention of players, but also you can encourage without forcing if you create better tools for the sandbox.


We should be looking much more towards creating a match-making social environment, as opposed to a multiplayer game where you play as a single player, just tolerating other players.