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Is this the best they could do? C'mon folks help them out.
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Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-12-24 22:46:30 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Far to many people are exploiting the safety and ease that the NPC corps offer, while reaping the same benefits as everyone else that actually takes part in the wider game,...


What do you mean when you say "wider game"?

Active social interaction.

Playing within a group and contributing to something.

Joining a militia and doing faction warfare.

Im not saying do all these thing, I'm saying do something other then sit in the NPC corp, ignoring the fact it's a multiplayer game that revolves heavily around interacting with other. I know not everyone in th NPC corps are like that', but a lot are.

CCP wants us to join player corporations and contribute.

Soundwave even addresses the very point in the blog about the tax increase.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#62 - 2012-12-24 22:51:20 UTC
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
They aren't try to force you anywhere. The npc's corp are imbalanced, even when compared to a high sec payer run corp.

You guys that want to play in the npc's corps receiving all the rewards with next to no risk, and then crying about any change that makes it better to be in a player corp should just frigging quit.

EVE isn't about the npc's corps, and the npc's corps don't attract more people to EVE.

What reward?

The npc's corp. if you don't understand you never will. And why are you crying over a 3 year old dev blog.

First: You are not explaining how a NPC corp is imbalanced to a player run corp.

Second: The devblog is 3 years old and the problems still persist.

Where is the reward in a player run corp for the efforts players sink into them? I believe you are better than this... Do you need more coffee or something?


This has got to be a troll.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzz8sYUN3Yg

This is the benefit. Protection, power projection, the ability to tell your enemies to gtfo or die. If you don't understand that numbers are power and that recruiting a talent pool matters, this isn't your game.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#63 - 2012-12-24 22:56:28 UTC
Elrich Kouvo wrote:

Could it be that some cant afford to join a corp? how well does a corp full of random newbs with poor leadership and structure do in this "harsh" game? I don't mind the industry stuff because there is more to EVE than T2 production. CCP must fix Player corpsbefore they make any radical changes to High sec.

Not an excuse. There are lots of bad corps indeed. There are also lots of good ones. Notice very few people ever say, "I just don't want to join a corp", its always how horrible corps are, that they don't want to be forced to do stuff they don't want, that they don't respect industrials. It's always an excuse that blames the corp, never that they just don't want to join one.

You're penalized for leaving the NPC corps because you assume more risk with no gain.
They can't fix anything as long as the NPC corps stay the way they are.

CCP knows they need to come up with incentives. They know that taxing didn't help.
Soundwave has already said they're talking about moving T2 production. They obviously understand that as long as you can play In the NPC corps like a play corp then people aren't going to leave.

There's a corp for everyone and finding one can be like dating. You may have to go threw a bunch of stinkers to find one you don't mind hanging around.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#64 - 2012-12-24 23:03:12 UTC
Funky Lazers wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Funky Lazers wrote:
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Make missions that are not "soloable" and have a group get better than solo rewards.


This sounds the same as "Make casual players leave the game".
You know, I enjoy soloing because I don't have to wait for 10 hrs on players to get into action or do something.
I want to log for 1 hr and have my fun shooting rats, I don't like grouping with people because it's a hassle and takes too much time.


Then why are you playing an MMO instead of any of the single player space ship games?


Does it really matter?!
If it's an MMO it doesn't mean I have to give people free hugs.

I'm paying money for this game: my money - my game.

No sir.

It's your subscription, CCP's game. You're not entitled to anything but to be able log in and play or cancel if you don't like it. Everything I between is entirely up to CCP.

They can kill the game tomorrow if they want. It's not your game.
Elrich Kouvo
Doomheim
#65 - 2012-12-24 23:13:07 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Elrich Kouvo wrote:

Could it be that some cant afford to join a corp? how well does a corp full of random newbs with poor leadership and structure do in this "harsh" game? I don't mind the industry stuff because there is more to EVE than T2 production. CCP must fix Player corpsbefore they make any radical changes to High sec.

Not an excuse. There are lots of bad corps indeed. There are also lots of good ones. Notice very few people ever say, "I just don't want to join a corp", its always how horrible corps are, that they don't want to be forced to do stuff they don't want, that they don't respect industrials. It's always an excuse that blames the corp, never that they just don't want to join one.

You're penalized for leaving the NPC corps because you assume more risk with no gain.
They can't fix anything as long as the NPC corps stay the way they are.

CCP knows they need to come up with incentives. They know that taxing didn't help.
Soundwave has already said they're talking about moving T2 production. They obviously understand that as long as you can play In the NPC corps like a play corp then people aren't going to leave.

There's a corp for everyone and finding one can be like dating. You may have to go threw a bunch of stinkers to find one you don't mind hanging around.

Maybe CCP can quality control corps. Plus it is nothing like dating. Joining a corp can be more like marriage (Ya know some one can leave with half, abuse, crime of passion, etc...). CCP Soundwave is insane. He is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#66 - 2012-12-24 23:14:39 UTC
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Elrich Kouvo wrote:

Could it be that some cant afford to join a corp? how well does a corp full of random newbs with poor leadership and structure do in this "harsh" game? I don't mind the industry stuff because there is more to EVE than T2 production. CCP must fix Player corpsbefore they make any radical changes to High sec.

Not an excuse. There are lots of bad corps indeed. There are also lots of good ones. Notice very few people ever say, "I just don't want to join a corp", its always how horrible corps are, that they don't want to be forced to do stuff they don't want, that they don't respect industrials. It's always an excuse that blames the corp, never that they just don't want to join one.

You're penalized for leaving the NPC corps because you assume more risk with no gain.
They can't fix anything as long as the NPC corps stay the way they are.

CCP knows they need to come up with incentives. They know that taxing didn't help.
Soundwave has already said they're talking about moving T2 production. They obviously understand that as long as you can play In the NPC corps like a play corp then people aren't going to leave.

There's a corp for everyone and finding one can be like dating. You may have to go threw a bunch of stinkers to find one you don't mind hanging around.

Maybe CCP can quality control corps. Plus it is nothing like dating. Joining a corp can be more like marriage (Ya know some one can leave with half, abuse, crime of passion, etc...). CCP Soundwave is insane. He is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.


So much quitter talk.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#67 - 2012-12-24 23:20:24 UTC
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Elrich Kouvo wrote:

Could it be that some cant afford to join a corp? how well does a corp full of random newbs with poor leadership and structure do in this "harsh" game? I don't mind the industry stuff because there is more to EVE than T2 production. CCP must fix Player corpsbefore they make any radical changes to High sec.

Not an excuse. There are lots of bad corps indeed. There are also lots of good ones. Notice very few people ever say, "I just don't want to join a corp", its always how horrible corps are, that they don't want to be forced to do stuff they don't want, that they don't respect industrials. It's always an excuse that blames the corp, never that they just don't want to join one.

You're penalized for leaving the NPC corps because you assume more risk with no gain.
They can't fix anything as long as the NPC corps stay the way they are.

CCP knows they need to come up with incentives. They know that taxing didn't help.
Soundwave has already said they're talking about moving T2 production. They obviously understand that as long as you can play In the NPC corps like a play corp then people aren't going to leave.

There's a corp for everyone and finding one can be like dating. You may have to go threw a bunch of stinkers to find one you don't mind hanging around.

Maybe CCP can quality control corps. Plus it is nothing like dating. Joining a corp can be more like marriage (Ya know some one can leave with half, abuse, crime of passion, etc...). CCP Soundwave is insane. He is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Wouldn't know. Never been married and at 36 I can say I have no intentions.

I've only ever been a member of one corp as well.
And even as an industrialist I pretty happy with where I've ended up.

I've gone threw the guild treadmill in other games.

And they don't need to quality control anything. Reputation and action matters here. If someone wants to run a ****** corp they should, and everyone else will eventually know.
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#68 - 2012-12-24 23:33:11 UTC
I have to ask CCP what the 11% goes to? In a player corp I receive a benefit for my taxes. The only benefit of an NPC corp is you can't wardec them. So what are the taxes for?

Like any idea I hope this one is still being refined.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#69 - 2012-12-24 23:35:31 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
I have to ask CCP what the 11% goes to? In a player corp I receive a benefit for my taxes. The only benefit of an NPC corp is you can't wardec them. So what are the taxes for?

Like any idea I hope this one is still being refined.


Its your protection fee to offset the fact you have avoided half of what little risk actually exists in hi sec.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#70 - 2012-12-24 23:35:57 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
I have to ask CCP what the 11% goes to? In a player corp I receive a benefit for my taxes. The only benefit of an NPC corp is you can't wardec them. So what are the taxes for?

Like any idea I hope this one is still being refined.

What benefit are you receiving?

And who should pay for concord?
Elrich Kouvo
Doomheim
#71 - 2012-12-24 23:38:24 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Nexus Day wrote:
I have to ask CCP what the 11% goes to? In a player corp I receive a benefit for my taxes. The only benefit of an NPC corp is you can't wardec them. So what are the taxes for?

Like any idea I hope this one is still being refined.

What benefit are you receiving?

And who should pay for concord?

Lore says the Empires pay for concord.
Etherealclams
#72 - 2012-12-24 23:40:04 UTC
This is why I make solo corps. Pay 1 mil or so and dodge the tax and save a lot more than that. If you get a war dec.. Just leave the corp and make a new one. If they follow you around with that war dec just stick to the npc corp for a bit.

http://aclamthatrants.blogspot.com/ Read up on my adventures.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-12-24 23:54:37 UTC
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Nexus Day wrote:
I have to ask CCP what the 11% goes to? In a player corp I receive a benefit for my taxes. The only benefit of an NPC corp is you can't wardec them. So what are the taxes for?

Like any idea I hope this one is still being refined.

What benefit are you receiving?

And who should pay for concord?

Lore says the Empires pay for concord.

Funny thing.

NPC corps ARE empire corporations.
Therefore NPC corp members are members of the empires and should be paying for concord.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#74 - 2012-12-24 23:59:17 UTC
Etherealclams wrote:
This is why I make solo corps. Pay 1 mil or so and dodge the tax and save a lot more than that. If you get a war dec.. Just leave the corp and make a new one. If they follow you around with that war dec just stick to the npc corp for a bit.

And more of the problem.

Frankly, they should either prevent you from disbanding with a war dec or let the war dec follow you to the NPC corp.

You're just exploiting the NPC corp mechanics because you're to risk averse to deal with a frigging war dec.

Obviously the NPC corps are fine when this guy can't handle a war dec and exploits the system to "save himself".
I'm sure this isn't what CCP had in mind for either the NPC or player run corps.

Stop being such a pussy.
Shaalira D'arc
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2012-12-24 23:59:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Shaalira D'arc
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Lore says the Empires pay for concord.


[Lore Nitpick]

That's not strictly true. The Empires did pay for CONCORD at the start of things. But part of the development of CONCORD over recent years is its growing independence, partly because it's starting to fund itself via interstellar trade. It does so via fees, contraband confiscations, security contracts, etc. So while it started out wholly dependent on the Empires, it's growing into a fully autonomous entity.

[/Lore Nitpick]


Anyways, I wouldn't rely too much on lore-based arguments. CCP is author of its own lore; if it wished for mechanics to act a certain way, I'm sure they can come up with the lore to justify it.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#76 - 2012-12-25 00:06:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Taxing NPC corporations was a rather lame attempt a trying to get players to join player run corporations. I'd like to know how many folks joined player corps because the unbearable 11% NPC corp tax rate. If war declarations and a low tax rate are the only thing player corps have going for t, then its no wonder player run corps are still alive and well.

The mining alts, booster alts, scout alts, freighter alts, market alts and remote rep alts don't worry about the 11% tax rate, I'm sure.

Being wardeccable is not considered an advantage in most circumstances. You know, perhaps more nerfs to gankers would solve the problem.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Elrich Kouvo
Doomheim
#77 - 2012-12-25 00:07:50 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Etherealclams wrote:
This is why I make solo corps. Pay 1 mil or so and dodge the tax and save a lot more than that. If you get a war dec.. Just leave the corp and make a new one. If they follow you around with that war dec just stick to the npc corp for a bit.

And more of the problem.

Frankly, they should either prevent you from disbanding with a war dec or let the war dec follow you to the NPC corp.

You're just exploiting the NPC corp mechanics because you're to risk averse to deal with a frigging war dec.

Obviously the NPC corps are fine when this guy can't handle a war dec and exploits the system to "save himself".
I'm sure this isn't what CCP had in mind for either the NPC or player run corps.

Stop being such a *****.

Nope. Griefers would over do it.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#78 - 2012-12-25 00:08:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Etherealclams wrote:
This is why I make solo corps. Pay 1 mil or so and dodge the tax and save a lot more than that. If you get a war dec.. Just leave the corp and make a new one. If they follow you around with that war dec just stick to the npc corp for a bit.

You're just exploiting the NPC corp mechanics because you're to risk averse to deal with a frigging war dec.

Obviously the NPC corps are fine when this guy can't handle a war dec and exploits the system to "save himself".
I'm sure this isn't what CCP had in mind for either the NPC or player run corps.

Well he's just in the npc corp for a bit, then he remakes his one man alt corp.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#79 - 2012-12-25 00:08:47 UTC
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Etherealclams wrote:
This is why I make solo corps. Pay 1 mil or so and dodge the tax and save a lot more than that. If you get a war dec.. Just leave the corp and make a new one. If they follow you around with that war dec just stick to the npc corp for a bit.

And more of the problem.

Frankly, they should either prevent you from disbanding with a war dec or let the war dec follow you to the NPC corp.

You're just exploiting the NPC corp mechanics because you're to risk averse to deal with a frigging war dec.

Obviously the NPC corps are fine when this guy can't handle a war dec and exploits the system to "save himself".
I'm sure this isn't what CCP had in mind for either the NPC or player run corps.

Stop being such a *****.

Nope. Griefers would over do it.

"Griefers" as in "highsec pvpers that aren't gankers or bumpers" right?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Elrich Kouvo
Doomheim
#80 - 2012-12-25 00:09:07 UTC
Shaalira D'arc wrote:
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Lore says the Empires pay for concord.


[Lore Nitpick]

That's not strictly true. The Empires did pay for CONCORD at the start of things. But part of the development of CONCORD over recent years is its growing independence, partly because it's starting to fund itself via interstellar trade. It does so via fees, contraband confiscations, security contracts, etc. So while it started out wholly dependent on the Empires, it's growing into a fully autonomous entity.

[/Lore Nitpick]


Anyways, I wouldn't rely too much on lore-based arguments. CCP is author of its own lore; if it wished for mechanics to act a certain way, I'm sure they can come up with the lore to justify it.

Man I need to brush up on my lore. Thanks for the correction.