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So i took my Venture into lowsec mining and...
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Comey Calla
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-12-23 11:22:17 UTC
...I barely made any more money than if i had saved all my trouble and mined Veldspar instead? Shocked

I am still trying to sell Hedbergite at Jita for a price that makes worth the trouble -long travels, plus evading rats and a lone guy i didn't waited to ask why he was warping into my belt, plus skilling up to use a cloak, and buy that cloak itself with a ten days old character, and then find a sensible GTFO fit. Not too confident, though.

After checking the market a bit, I think that maybe lowsec ores are way underrated for the trouble they cause? But anyway I never tried this before so please, can someone confirm wether is it worth to mine lowsec ores? Would be better (= more bang per buck) to become a hisec uberminer with all the skills and stuff?
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
#2 - 2012-12-23 11:31:15 UTC
ofc its worth it,not with venture tho
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#3 - 2012-12-23 11:44:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
The trick to low sec is that you're not competing so much for the ores, production slots and market sales. So you could be entirely self sufficient and perhaps even start to feed that low sec area with items on the market meaning, if you did you research right, you might actually have an impact on that area as there'll be more people (mostly pirates) doing their shopping there. And, again, if you do it right you might be able to chat a bit with them and get to an agreement that's worthwhile for all parties.

If you just want to mine and be "left alone" then low sec has nothing for you, if you actually want to build something (mostly your own name and reputation) and you show some initiative then it just might.
gfldex
#4 - 2012-12-23 12:49:48 UTC
Comey Calla wrote:
But anyway I never tried this before so please, can someone confirm wether is it worth to mine lowsec ores?



Arkonor: 7505093.66ISK per can
Bistot: 5639021.18ISK per can
Crokite: 5477526.24ISK per can
Dark Ochre: 5065564.45ISK per can
Gneiss: 2297176.61ISK per can

Hedbergite: 7746619.47ISK per can
Hemorphite: 7254717.80ISK per can
Jaspet: 6623762.20ISK per can
Spodumain: 2299944.63ISK per can

Omber: 6517043.50ISK per can
Kernite: 6471850.00ISK per can
Plagioclase: 5576429.00ISK per can
Pyroxeres: 5880331.33ISK per can
Veldspar: 4987987.99ISK per can
Scordite: 5985563.56ISK per can

That's with Jita buy order prices as of yesterday. Prodding stuff in lowsec is idiotic because you will have to import trit, mega and zyd anyway. If you want to have a reasonable income (what means you compare the invested time to a single char running lvl4s in highsec) with prod in lowsec you can't possible mine the mins you need all yourself. You will further have huge problems to get up to a scale where you actually get some decent turnover because lowsec inhabitants import anything from highsec anyway, don't really have the income to pay for a markup. If there would be a market in lowsec you would compete with traders who use their fancy JF to bring anything from Jita and drop your turnover even further. So you might actually end up with lower prices then in highsec.

There is only one advantage for mining in lowsec and that is the size of roids. Since there is virtually no competition (guess why) you will be able to fill an orca up to 6 times from a single belt. What is fairly nice compared to 2 times with your average belt in highsec. Since only complete idiots would bring an orca into a lowsec belts that's ofc just theory crafting.

It's fairly easy to see who has never tried to do industry in lowsec. They suggest it's reasonable to do so.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Comey Calla
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-12-23 13:13:46 UTC
gfldex wrote:
Comey Calla wrote:
But anyway I never tried this before so please, can someone confirm wether is it worth to mine lowsec ores?



Arkonor: 7505093.66ISK per can
Bistot: 5639021.18ISK per can
Crokite: 5477526.24ISK per can
Dark Ochre: 5065564.45ISK per can
Gneiss: 2297176.61ISK per can

Hedbergite: 7746619.47ISK per can
Hemorphite: 7254717.80ISK per can
Jaspet: 6623762.20ISK per can
Spodumain: 2299944.63ISK per can

Omber: 6517043.50ISK per can
Kernite: 6471850.00ISK per can
Plagioclase: 5576429.00ISK per can
Pyroxeres: 5880331.33ISK per can
Veldspar: 4987987.99ISK per can
Scordite: 5985563.56ISK per can

That's with Jita buy order prices as of yesterday. Prodding stuff in lowsec is idiotic because you will have to import trit, mega and zyd anyway. If you want to have a reasonable income (what means you compare the invested time to a single char running lvl4s in highsec) with prod in lowsec you can't possible mine the mins you need all yourself. You will further have huge problems to get up to a scale where you actually get some decent turnover because lowsec inhabitants import anything from highsec anyway, don't really have the income to pay for a markup. If there would be a market in lowsec you would compete with traders who use their fancy JF to bring anything from Jita and drop your turnover even further. So you might actually end up with lower prices then in highsec.

There is only one advantage for mining in lowsec and that is the size of roids. Since there is virtually no competition (guess why) you will be able to fill an orca up to 6 times from a single belt. What is fairly nice compared to 2 times with your average belt in highsec. Since only complete idiots would bring an orca into a lowsec belts that's ofc just theory crafting.

It's fairly easy to see who has never tried to do industry in lowsec. They suggest it's reasonable to do so.


Wow, thanks for the price list... obviously Omber/Kernite are worh much better than lowsec ores as i don't risk losing a fit worth as much as 3 or 4 ore loads (the cloak alone is worth more than the Venture itself, go figure).

How about ratting in lowsec? Is it worth it? What would be the lesser ship (= cheaper in ISK and skills) able to deal with lowsec rats?
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#6 - 2012-12-23 13:22:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
Actually, I'm doing exactly what I stated in my post, on an alt ofcourse. Just for the different play style and to gain some knowledge on it. Is it as profitable as grinding missions? No not at all but I play to be entertained and doing stuff that takes a bit more effort and out of the box thinking is interesting to me. Not that production is my preferred playstyle but changing one's habits once in a while keeps the boredom away.

So, as I (kinda) stated: it's only interesting for people who like the idea of being self sufficient and making a name for yourself (even, as in my case, if it's just on an alt) and if you put in the effort to think before you act it can work fine. I'd not recommend as a standard option ofcourse (I'd not even recommend normal production to newbies) but stating it to be impossible is outright wrong.

- edit -

Ratting in low sec is decently profitable for newer players, if you have some decent dps output and fly a decently fit frigate or so you can make some 5-10 mil/h with that. Don't make the mistake of using big(ger) ships, bigger doesn't mean you'll be safer it just means you're a slower fatter target. It does require a basic understanding of game mechanics and how low sec works so for absolute newbies probably not the best path unless, again, you enjoy putting in the effort to punch above your weight.
gfldex
#7 - 2012-12-23 13:46:27 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Is it as profitable as grinding missions? No not at all but I play to be entertained and doing stuff that takes a bit more effort and out of the box thinking is interesting to me.


I understood your intend to pad yourself on the back very well. However, that was not was not what the OP was asking for. There are better places to not answer question on this forum. Please go there.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
gfldex
#8 - 2012-12-23 13:50:09 UTC
Comey Calla wrote:
How about ratting in lowsec? Is it worth it? What would be the lesser ship (= cheaper in ISK and skills) able to deal with lowsec rats?


It can be if you go lucky with faction spawns. With proper skills a frig will do. You will need to choose your area of operation carefully, as you don't want to be interrupted every few minutes. It is wise to outsource the movements of good to a tradehub to dedicated corps. You can find their offers here on the forum.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#9 - 2012-12-23 14:19:21 UTC
gfldex wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Is it as profitable as grinding missions? No not at all but I play to be entertained and doing stuff that takes a bit more effort and out of the box thinking is interesting to me.


I understood your intend to pad yourself on the back very well. However, that was not was not what the OP was asking for. There are better places to not answer question on this forum. Please go there.



Which part of "If you just want to mine and be "left alone" then low sec has nothing for you, if you actually want to build something (mostly your own name and reputation) and you show some initiative then it just might." is me padding myself on the back. all I did later on was explaining the how and why because it seemed to be needed, no more. if you seem to have issues with that then that's pretty much your own problem.
Dave stark
#10 - 2012-12-23 16:59:19 UTC
lowest security space with the same ores that can be found in practically 100% safe nullsec.

low sec is the worst place to mine, in the game. it offers nothing for miners but mediocre profits, perpetual risk of ship loss, and logistical headaches.

save yourself the trouble; move to null or stay in empire.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-12-23 17:08:49 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
lowest security space with the same ores that can be found in practically 100% safe nullsec.

low sec is the worst place to mine, in the game. it offers nothing for miners but mediocre profits, perpetual risk of ship loss, and logistical headaches.

save yourself the trouble; move to null or stay in empire.


The underlined.

SOV null-sec is actually the safest place to mine or do other carebear stuff (hence there a a lot of carebears in null-sec).

Most SOV entities are surrounded by other entities that are set blue both ways, so won't shoot you.
Most SOV entities have a intel channel that if someone farts in VFK it shows up in less then 1 minute in SOLAR space.

So as long as you watch those intel channels and be at the keyboard, nothing is more safe then null.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Dave stark
#12 - 2012-12-23 17:36:29 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
lowest security space with the same ores that can be found in practically 100% safe nullsec.

low sec is the worst place to mine, in the game. it offers nothing for miners but mediocre profits, perpetual risk of ship loss, and logistical headaches.

save yourself the trouble; move to null or stay in empire.


The underlined.

SOV null-sec is actually the safest place to mine or do other carebear stuff (hence there a a lot of carebears in null-sec).

Most SOV entities are surrounded by other entities that are set blue both ways, so won't shoot you.
Most SOV entities have a intel channel that if someone farts in VFK it shows up in less then 1 minute in SOLAR space.

So as long as you watch those intel channels and be at the keyboard, nothing is more safe then null.


not to mention most industry upgraded systems are at (or very near) the end of a pipe, providing additional safety that you know exactly which gate an enemy will come from. in addition this gate is quite often bubbled and miners get in and out using jump beacon things (forgot their proper name). on top of this, if any neuts do jump in to your system they then have to probe down the grav site you're in, or probe down your ship. either way, it involves probes, which will pop up on your dscan.

the only drawback is then having to move your spoils back to jita. however any alliance worth their salt has jf pilots who regularly do runs between null and jita using out of corp alts etc, which really does make nullsec the place to mine if you're willing to endure the slightly more complex logistics.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#13 - 2012-12-23 17:43:53 UTC
You might look into exploration. Gravimetric exploration sites in lowsec spawn 0.0 ores. It'll take some time to find one, but you'll earn many times what you would in hisec. As a bonus it's less likely (though still very possible) for player pirates to come after you.
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#14 - 2012-12-23 17:46:26 UTC
You mined in low sec and not only survived but turned a profit? Get a bigger barge...may i suggest a coveter with a cloak and bookmarks? I don't know crap about mining to make money but doing it in low sec effectively may lead to fun for you that's worth more than isk/hr.
Dave stark
#15 - 2012-12-23 17:48:08 UTC
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
that's worth more than isk/hr.

if that were true, people wouldn't be mining to begin with.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-12-23 19:35:00 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
lowest security space with the same ores that can be found in practically 100% safe nullsec.

low sec is the worst place to mine, in the game. it offers nothing for miners but mediocre profits, perpetual risk of ship loss, and logistical headaches.

save yourself the trouble; move to null or stay in empire.


The underlined.

SOV null-sec is actually the safest place to mine or do other carebear stuff (hence there a a lot of carebears in null-sec).

Most SOV entities are surrounded by other entities that are set blue both ways, so won't shoot you.
Most SOV entities have a intel channel that if someone farts in VFK it shows up in less then 1 minute in SOLAR space.

So as long as you watch those intel channels and be at the keyboard, nothing is more safe then null.


not to mention most industry upgraded systems are at (or very near) the end of a pipe, providing additional safety that you know exactly which gate an enemy will come from. in addition this gate is quite often bubbled and miners get in and out using jump beacon things (forgot their proper name). on top of this, if any neuts do jump in to your system they then have to probe down the grav site you're in, or probe down your ship. either way, it involves probes, which will pop up on your dscan.

the only drawback is then having to move your spoils back to jita. however any alliance worth their salt has jf pilots who regularly do runs between null and jita using out of corp alts etc, which really does make nullsec the place to mine if you're willing to endure the slightly more complex logistics.


jump beacon things (forgot their proper name) = Jump bridge

the only drawback is then having to move your spoils back to jita. = guess why CCP invented jumpfreighters for.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Brony Robbins
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-12-23 19:47:33 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
gfldex wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Is it as profitable as grinding missions? No not at all but I play to be entertained and doing stuff that takes a bit more effort and out of the box thinking is interesting to me.


I understood your intend to pad yourself on the back very well. However, that was not was not what the OP was asking for. There are better places to not answer question on this forum. Please go there.



Which part of "If you just want to mine and be "left alone" then low sec has nothing for you, if you actually want to build something (mostly your own name and reputation) and you show some initiative then it just might." is me padding myself on the back. all I did later on was explaining the how and why because it seemed to be needed, no more. if you seem to have issues with that then that's pretty much your own problem.

This is slightly off topic, but what's the point in having a Latin phrase in your signature, if you are just going to put the English translation right next to it?

Also, to answer your question, the second part.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-12-23 19:51:29 UTC
Brony Robbins wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
gfldex wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Is it as profitable as grinding missions? No not at all but I play to be entertained and doing stuff that takes a bit more effort and out of the box thinking is interesting to me.


I understood your intend to pad yourself on the back very well. However, that was not was not what the OP was asking for. There are better places to not answer question on this forum. Please go there.



Which part of "If you just want to mine and be "left alone" then low sec has nothing for you, if you actually want to build something (mostly your own name and reputation) and you show some initiative then it just might." is me padding myself on the back. all I did later on was explaining the how and why because it seemed to be needed, no more. if you seem to have issues with that then that's pretty much your own problem.

This is slightly off topic, but what's the point in having a Latin phrase in your signature, if you are just going to put the English translation right next to it?

Also, to answer your question, the second part.


Cough...Vilnius Latin phrase isn't translated behind it in English...

“Amat victoria curam” literally means “Victory loves the care”, that is “Victory likes careful preparation” or more loosely “Victory favours those who take pains”, since victory falls to those who prepare it carefully.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Dave stark
#19 - 2012-12-23 19:56:38 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
lowest security space with the same ores that can be found in practically 100% safe nullsec.

low sec is the worst place to mine, in the game. it offers nothing for miners but mediocre profits, perpetual risk of ship loss, and logistical headaches.

save yourself the trouble; move to null or stay in empire.


The underlined.

SOV null-sec is actually the safest place to mine or do other carebear stuff (hence there a a lot of carebears in null-sec).

Most SOV entities are surrounded by other entities that are set blue both ways, so won't shoot you.
Most SOV entities have a intel channel that if someone farts in VFK it shows up in less then 1 minute in SOLAR space.

So as long as you watch those intel channels and be at the keyboard, nothing is more safe then null.


not to mention most industry upgraded systems are at (or very near) the end of a pipe, providing additional safety that you know exactly which gate an enemy will come from. in addition this gate is quite often bubbled and miners get in and out using jump beacon things (forgot their proper name). on top of this, if any neuts do jump in to your system they then have to probe down the grav site you're in, or probe down your ship. either way, it involves probes, which will pop up on your dscan.

the only drawback is then having to move your spoils back to jita. however any alliance worth their salt has jf pilots who regularly do runs between null and jita using out of corp alts etc, which really does make nullsec the place to mine if you're willing to endure the slightly more complex logistics.


jump beacon things (forgot their proper name) = Jump bridge

the only drawback is then having to move your spoils back to jita. = guess why CCP invented jumpfreighters for.


thanks.

and yes, that's what jfs are for, as i said directly after the bit you underlined... still, i doubt people are going to haul your **** to jita for you out of the goodness of their heart unless you're going out of your way to do something for them, which is just a different cost you have to assess rather than "moving your **** to jita".

the very real situation is that unless you've got access to a good logistics link between your nullsec area and jita mining in 0.0 is far more hassle than that extra 1-2million isk/jetcan is worth.
Brony Robbins
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-12-23 20:09:59 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Brony Robbins wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
gfldex wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Is it as profitable as grinding missions? No not at all but I play to be entertained and doing stuff that takes a bit more effort and out of the box thinking is interesting to me.


I understood your intend to pad yourself on the back very well. However, that was not was not what the OP was asking for. There are better places to not answer question on this forum. Please go there.



Which part of "If you just want to mine and be "left alone" then low sec has nothing for you, if you actually want to build something (mostly your own name and reputation) and you show some initiative then it just might." is me padding myself on the back. all I did later on was explaining the how and why because it seemed to be needed, no more. if you seem to have issues with that then that's pretty much your own problem.

This is slightly off topic, but what's the point in having a Latin phrase in your signature, if you are just going to put the English translation right next to it?

Also, to answer your question, the second part.


Cough...Vilnius Latin phrase isn't translated behind it in English...

“Amat victoria curam” literally means “Victory loves the care”, that is “Victory likes careful preparation” or more loosely “Victory favours those who take pains”, since victory falls to those who prepare it carefully.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3rhQc666Sg
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