These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

A Bittervet's Perspective on Nullsec

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Anndy
The Evocati
#61 - 2012-12-24 01:02:57 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
I think the part of the conversation that is missing is

With lo-sec and Wormholes do we really Need Null or more specifically Sov space

Over the years so much has been put into Null, resources wise, balancing adding, nerfing it that it is now a jumbled mess that needs even more resources to again fix. There is no guarantee that this time they will get it right either.

So why not just get rid of it?

The only real answer I can think of is, "But then those people would have to live near me".

Not really a great reason to keep the resource sucking chest wound Null is.

I am not recommending this course of action but I do feel it should be discussed and not just by the minority that is Null but by the community as a whole, after all it is our subscription fees that fund yet another fix Null drive.


honestly after i first started playing a big part of why i stuck with the game was that players could actually fight to control areas of space and honestly for the most part null news is the story of eve and without it the game would be very dull, kinda like it is now with nothing really happening but it used to be very interesting
Frying Doom
#62 - 2012-12-24 01:10:52 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
I think the part of the conversation that is missing is

With lo-sec and Wormholes do we really Need Null or more specifically Sov space

Over the years so much has been put into Null, resources wise, balancing adding, nerfing it that it is now a jumbled mess that needs even more resources to again fix. There is no guarantee that this time they will get it right either.

So why not just get rid of it?

The only real answer I can think of is, "But then those people would have to live near me".

Not really a great reason to keep the resource sucking chest wound Null is.

I am not recommending this course of action but I do feel it should be discussed and not just by the minority that is Null but by the community as a whole, after all it is our subscription fees that fund yet another fix Null drive.


THE space that most of the trailers are about. THE space where most of the news has been genertated. THE space where a sandbox pvp game lets people both sand box AND pvp.

This is the single stupidest post anyone has ever posted in GD, and that's saying something.

Ohhh sorry there it is actually closely tied with the CSM about main stream news articles in the last 12 months.

As too trailers sorry I did not see any warp core bubbles there, you are just interpreting the trailers as Sov Null space, they may be but they do not have to be about there.

As to sandox and PvP, you mean like lo-sec, Npc Null and Wormhole space.

So as I said being it is a massive resource hog, do we really need it?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2012-12-24 01:19:57 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:


So as I said being it is a massive resource hog, do we really need it?




Tell me what changes nullsec has been getting that have been hogging up resources.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2012-12-24 01:44:50 UTC
nullsec has better PI than lowsec and highsec !
Anndy
The Evocati
#65 - 2012-12-24 01:50:44 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
nullsec has better PI than lowsec and highsec !


null has quite a few things better but it gets ignored a lot since people are swimming in moon goo
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#66 - 2012-12-24 04:30:02 UTC
If it was changed so that super carriers had a hacking module that made sov structures vulnerable after being held 20 minutes, and it then took say 10 racial doomsdays to kill the thing, would that work better?
With the structure other wise invulnerable?
Oh and the same goes for all stations making them destroyable. (I know one of you groups would kill Jita 4-4 on the first day)

Or is it more, that the idea of sov structures is the issue?
Would it work better if it was handled like fw?
Where there are system sites and who ever holds the most sites owns the system.
Or perhaps like station offices.
Everybody gets a map where they can purchase a system and upgrades for it, but the cost per week keeps increasing 5% every down time until you cant afford it and then you try and catch it on the return.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#67 - 2012-12-24 05:21:14 UTC
First off - I have not lived in low sec for any large amount of time. Have primarily just roamed through it on occasion.

From an outside perspective I do agree that power projection does seem to be too effective. I would personally like to see ALL of null sec get its value buffed to a degree and have more smaller pockets of high value territory appearing. While giving Titans a primarily new role or reducing the range in which they can drop blobs on people.

I see so many empty unused systems that are completely unoccupied just sitting there doing nothing. I would like to see small corporations and alliances attempting to take, use and build infrastructure in said systems. Without having to deal with capitals being dropped on them, not because their territory even has value to an alliance, but 'simply because they could'. At the same time things need to become even more active then they are in order to maintain and flourish these territories.

The idea essentially becomes, is it logistically worth it to bigger alliances to stop other systems from being taken when they don't even use them? With the POS changes this would get even better. But at the moment it seems that large amounts of alliances don't even fully use the regions they occupy, nor do they have to station a garrison in regions they plan on holding because they can simply drop death on one lone frigate.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#68 - 2012-12-24 08:08:30 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
If it was changed so that super carriers had a hacking module that made sov structures vulnerable after being held 20 minutes, and it then took say 10 racial doomsdays to kill the thing, would that work better?
With the structure other wise invulnerable?

20 minutes to get together a blob or two and at least 10 titans, if not more, for a supercarrier killmail?

Nice... I think Boat would be very agreeable to this.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#69 - 2012-12-24 09:07:58 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
NEONOVUS wrote:
If it was changed so that super carriers had a hacking module that made sov structures vulnerable after being held 20 minutes, and it then took say 10 racial doomsdays to kill the thing, would that work better?
With the structure other wise invulnerable?

20 minutes to get together a blob or two and at least 10 titans, if not more, for a supercarrier killmail?

Nice... I think Boat would be very agreeable to this.


We should nerf cyno's then you couldn't drop 10 titans on a super.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#70 - 2012-12-24 09:12:34 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
nullsec has better PI than lowsec and highsec !

Wormhole PI is better.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Anndy
The Evocati
#71 - 2012-12-24 20:55:36 UTC
Sean Parisi wrote:
First off - I have not lived in low sec for any large amount of time. Have primarily just roamed through it on occasion.

From an outside perspective I do agree that power projection does seem to be too effective. I would personally like to see ALL of null sec get its value buffed to a degree and have more smaller pockets of high value territory appearing. While giving Titans a primarily new role or reducing the range in which they can drop blobs on people.

I see so many empty unused systems that are completely unoccupied just sitting there doing nothing. I would like to see small corporations and alliances attempting to take, use and build infrastructure in said systems. Without having to deal with capitals being dropped on them, not because their territory even has value to an alliance, but 'simply because they could'. At the same time things need to become even more active then they are in order to maintain and flourish these territories.

The idea essentially becomes, is it logistically worth it to bigger alliances to stop other systems from being taken when they don't even use them? With the POS changes this would get even better. But at the moment it seems that large amounts of alliances don't even fully use the regions they occupy, nor do they have to station a garrison in regions they plan on holding because they can simply drop death on one lone frigate.


better way of dealing with sov would be a good start but its only part of the problem, honestly almost everything to do with null is broke and needs to be rebuilt from the ground up
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2012-12-24 23:22:35 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
nullsec has better PI than lowsec and highsec !

Wormhole PI is better.



risk vs reward, working as intended (one of the few cases)

pocos however are way to expensive and the gameplay is to boring

but it scales good from Highsec to wh space
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-12-24 23:30:51 UTC
Anndy wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
nullsec has better PI than lowsec and highsec !


null has quite a few things better but it gets ignored a lot since people are swimming in moon goo



this is not true

exploration and PI are the only things that scale well, everything else is
either

- actually worse in most cases (mining, industry)
- the same if you factor in downtime due to neuts in local (incursions, grinding rats, ...)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#74 - 2012-12-24 23:35:06 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
- the same if you factor in downtime due to neuts in local (incursions, grinding rats, ...)

So, if we nerfed local...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2012-12-25 02:05:32 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
- the same if you factor in downtime due to neuts in local (incursions, grinding rats, ...)

So, if we nerfed local...


not really sure, definitely not without changes to the directional scanner
Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#76 - 2012-12-25 02:10:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Karrl Tian
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
- the same if you factor in downtime due to neuts in local (incursions, grinding rats, ...)

So, if we nerfed local...


Or we could replace it.
Anndy
The Evocati
#77 - 2012-12-25 02:31:42 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
Anndy wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
nullsec has better PI than lowsec and highsec !


null has quite a few things better but it gets ignored a lot since people are swimming in moon goo



this is not true

exploration and PI are the only things that scale well, everything else is
either

- actually worse in most cases (mining, industry)
- the same if you factor in downtime due to neuts in local (incursions, grinding rats, ...)


i'll give you industry due to slot limits but mining is better on paper, roaming gangs will really only slow you down for a few min, afk cloakers however pretty much ruin a system and that seriously needs fixed

anoms and belt ratting is about equal to high sec incursions and actually higher if you consider faction/officer spawns but again a single cloaky in local can ruin a system

the single biggest thing they can do to help the average player in null is to do something to limit afk cloaking
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2012-12-25 02:47:46 UTC
mining is (much) worse

do not forget that you also 'have to' mine stuff like gneiss and spodumain, picking the raisins does not work for anything that involves a group of players. it is also a major pain in the ass and very very expensive (a minmatar outpost and several amarr outposts, several towers, rorquals, and at least one JF if you actually want to mine and/or produce on a corporation or alliance basis)
Anndy
The Evocati
#79 - 2012-12-25 03:30:20 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
mining is (much) worse

do not forget that you also 'have to' mine stuff like gneiss and spodumain, picking the raisins does not work for anything that involves a group of players. it is also a major pain in the ass and very very expensive (a minmatar outpost and several amarr outposts, several towers, rorquals, and at least one JF if you actually want to mine and/or produce on a corporation or alliance basis)


i was thinking more for small groups like 10 or so but ya if you want to look at it from a corp or alliance level its kinda pointless to mine at all in null
Ginger Barbarella
#80 - 2012-12-25 03:33:38 UTC
Xtek Hemah wrote:
What if: instead of paying to hold sovereignty, you GOT PAID to have sov. A specific amount per system. Good money, like really really good money. Wouldn't all of nullsec erupt into war as the ~elite pvp~ dudes who dont care about sov in its current incarnation because its useless want to take some?

Hell even the little guys could get in and snatch up all the unclaimed systems. Base payouts upon truesec.


The elite peeveepee guys are busy ganking miners and sitting around waiting for freighter in Niarja and Uaedama... The emorage against highsec is fail poasting by people who make their living in high but can't be seen shaking it twice when done.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac