These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

One possible solution to an age old problem!

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Midiana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2012-12-21 10:45:24 UTC
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
Your basic assumption that AFK cloaking is at all a problem is wrong, thus your whole thread makes no sense.


You sir are an idiot.

The basic problem is NOT the afk cloakers. They have a reason and a job to do. The problem is that A LOT of people log in their cloaker, cloak it, and go to work. This gives them an 8 or whatever hour period where they gain (by doing what they do and restricting enemy movement) by not actually playing. Which CCP DOES frown upon heavily.

You were never means to use cloaks as a tool while you did not play the game.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#62 - 2012-12-21 10:57:07 UTC
Kingpin Nil wrote:
We’re all aware of CCP’S stance on playing eve while AFK! Botters, warp to zero at the gate exploits all punishable offensives! So why are AFK cloakers getting a free ride?
Because they're not doing anything wrong. What kind of silly question is this?

Now, you mentioned that you wanted to solve an age-old problem. What problem is that?

Midiana wrote:
The basic problem is NOT the afk cloakers. They have a reason and a job to do. The problem is that A LOT of people log in their cloaker, cloak it, and go to work. This gives them an 8 or whatever hour period where they gain
…absolutely nothing. So what's the problem again?
TharOkha
0asis Group
#63 - 2012-12-21 11:00:36 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Can we finaly get rid of null Local so this pointless whine about AFK cloaking could stop ?

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#64 - 2012-12-21 11:04:49 UTC
Midiana wrote:

ing the game or even being home. Gain is'nt ISK gain can be to deny your opponent isk making. Gain can be many things in Eve and we all know it. So far cloaky afkers have been given way too much leeway.



Oh please...

the afk cloacker is not denying anything, is the residents fear of it, unability to accept a risk and unability to deal with it that's negating.

Is the same as "we have a negative docked in our system, he could undock and gank us, so we cannot do anything: CCP, fix it".
Pharaik
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2012-12-21 11:09:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Pharaik
How you you know there "AFK" they might sit there for hours and hours on end discipline them self's not to talk in local??

The problem is not the cloaking ships, its the Fleets all the whiners and running with, take some recons with you, passive align station and when he does show up you have a counter, Just because your too scared to run plex's or a mine a belt cos there's one other person than your corp / alliance in local you all **** your self's and run a hide like a little b*****s.

The chances are that AFK cloaker comes back online and goes to attack a decent sized gang is very unlikely unless they see an opportunity to throw a bomb your way. But there main purpose they are there is disruption and physiological warfare, you too scared of "what" could be at the other end if he has a cyno on there so you sit in station and come on the forums and whine.

Nothing to fix or solve or take away from the game, Adapt or ship spin its your choice and its your game time your running down and your wallet cos your too scared of what might happen.
Midiana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2012-12-21 11:13:57 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Kingpin Nil wrote:
We’re all aware of CCP’S stance on playing eve while AFK! Botters, warp to zero at the gate exploits all punishable offensives! So why are AFK cloakers getting a free ride?
Because they're not doing anything wrong. What kind of silly question is this?

Now, you mentioned that you wanted to solve an age-old problem. What problem is that?

Midiana wrote:
The basic problem is NOT the afk cloakers. They have a reason and a job to do. The problem is that A LOT of people log in their cloaker, cloak it, and go to work. This gives them an 8 or whatever hour period where they gain
…absolutely nothing. So what's the problem again?


The problem is that an afk cloaker behaves exactly like a atk cloaker. They job they do is not affected. If you dock, we can see your docked, we can do something about it if you undock. An afk cloaker cannot be countered. And it does exactly the same job as it would if the person behind it was at the keyboard. You are getting a free ride to do your job while not having to be present to do it.

So either do something about Afk'ers being logged in, auto log them after an hour. At least that way people can see they're at keyboard and log back in. Or they log for hours while they're at work, as it should be. Eve is a game, its not meant to be played or logged into while your at work. Or just allow botting, and AFK mining, so that everyone is equal.

We can go back and forth on this for hours. With most people just being pig headed about it. Quoting harvested tears and other such bullshit. But the fact is, harvested tears is another way to say I stopped someone doing something, I ruined their play time today, and yes it's a valid in game tactic. But not while your not present at your computer it's not!!!
Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#67 - 2012-12-21 11:15:01 UTC
Midiana wrote:
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
Your basic assumption that AFK cloaking is at all a problem is wrong, thus your whole thread makes no sense.


You sir are an idiot.


Thank you.

Midiana wrote:


The basic problem is NOT the afk cloakers. They have a reason and a job to do. The problem is that A LOT of people log in their cloaker, cloak it, and go to work.


Not seeing a problem there.

Midiana wrote:


This gives them an 8 or whatever hour period where they gain (by doing what they do and restricting enemy movement) by not actually playing. Which CCP DOES frown upon heavily.


What exactly do they gain? ISK? LP? More SP? Loot?
They are not restricting enemy movement. Think of them like of a "slippery road" sign - it's there and people have been notified about it, they do not pose any real threat for players that know what they are doing and can only scare off inexperienced and mentally weak ones (by producing mild paranoia).

Midiana wrote:
You were never means to use cloaks as a tool while you did not play the game.

Said who and why not?
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#68 - 2012-12-21 11:19:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Kingpin Nil
Midiana wrote:
There's a point here that is being totally overlooked.

AFK miner. He mines away while he's at work or goes out with his mates, And he makes Isk. That's illegal right? He's making a gain by not playing the game.

Botting Ratter. He shoots rats all day long while not at his keyboard, he's gone out with his mates and he's making some isk. Illegal yes? He's again making a gain by not playing.

AFK Cloaker. This guys aim is not to make isk. It's to stop other people making isk through fear of reprisal or hot drop. Fair play, if that's what he want's to do noone can stop him doing that. However then he goes to the pub. Or he goes shopping. He watches a movie. He's till performing his task, which is giving him a gain. That gain is to deprive his enemy of money through the threat that he actually is going to hot drop or tackle that rorqual you have in that belt. He's getting his gain (gain being the objective of competing what he set out to do), while not actually playing the game. That is illegal right?

The three above situations ALL give the pilot doing them a gain. One gives ore, one gives isk, one deprives their enemy of isk. Why one should be absolutely fine and the other two can lead to a ban is beyond me.

There are two completely simple fixes to the Cloaky camper problem :

1) Log off after a period of one hour inactivity. This means you have to be at your keyboard to stay logged in. Or you have to bot, which will get you banned. For being the cripple that you actually are.

2) Cloaks require some form of fuel or have a recharge timer on them. You either are forced to go and refuel to continue your cov ops reign of terror, or after one hour your cloak completely dissengages needing 30 mins recharge time before it can be activated again. Giving the defenders some time to find you if you remain AFK in one spot. And again, if your at work and leave your pc on, you can't recloak or refuel, leaving you time to die in the way you deserve.


This is'nt about denying the ability to AFK cloak, its about denying the ability to perform your job in hand, whether that's ratting, mining, or striking terror into carebear hearts while not actually playing the game or even being home. Gain is'nt ISK gain can be to deny your opponent isk making. Gain can be many things in Eve and we all know it. So far cloaky afkers have been given way too much leeway.



yes at last a decent comment to work with , thank you very much good explanation and suggestion.
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#69 - 2012-12-21 11:25:28 UTC
Midiana wrote:
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
Your basic assumption that AFK cloaking is at all a problem is wrong, thus your whole thread makes no sense.


You sir are an idiot.

The basic problem is NOT the afk cloakers. They have a reason and a job to do. The problem is that A LOT of people log in their cloaker, cloak it, and go to work. This gives them an 8 or whatever hour period where they gain (by doing what they do and restricting enemy movement) by not actually playing. Which CCP DOES frown upon heavily.

You were never means to use cloaks as a tool while you did not play the game.


I've been trying to make this point by getting others to either answer my questions or by getting them to answer theirs! but they seem to either stop make an insult, get upset or plain refuse and answer!

just to recap guys! its still a very much hot topic I'm just trying to add some fresh perceptive and get others talking about it! it does not means I have personal invested interest!
Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#70 - 2012-12-21 11:35:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik
The point is that all those who cry about AFK cloakers should really try to play Factional Warfare lowsec missions for a while, although I know that they are too scared to do so. After the changes, which are pretty good actually, it looks like this:
- Your mission is located exclusively in the opposing militia's lowsec regions, which are usually 2-15 jumps away from your agent;
- The moment you click "Warp to" in order to go to your mission, a publicly viewable beacon pops out in the overview that is visible throughout the whole system;
- If the occupancy of the system is held by the opposing militia, you are denied docking rights to any station in that system;
- You do not have AFK cloakers, you have an active bunch of opposing militia members who gain Loyalty Points and Millitia standings when they blast your ship;
- When I played in the FW, it was not important how many of reds are in local, but how many of them are actively hunting me. Although, my rule was that I should be extra careful when there are more than 7 reds in local (statistically speaking, the percentage of those who are hunting in combination with 7+ reds makes it dangerous to proceed)

Yet, hundreds of players do these missions every day (until recently including me) without any problems.

And you are complaining about a single afk cloaker deep inside your own territory where you can dock or run to a POS at any time while not having a big shiny beacon that say "RATTER IS HERE" in the overview? Seriously?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#71 - 2012-12-21 11:39:16 UTC
Midiana wrote:
The problem is that an afk cloaker behaves exactly like a atk cloaker.
Actually, no, he doesn't. Even if he did, he can easily be countered in the exact same way: by bringing protection. Most notably, AFKers are very easily identified by the fact that they won't follow you around, so that's another layer of countering and protection available to you.

If you wanted to hard-code a difference into it, then removing them from local is the better way to go and it actually goes after the real problem here: local, and the free intel it provides about targets that people should otherwise be unaware of and when they now instead obsess over for no good reason.

Quote:
Eve is a game, its not meant to be played or logged into while your at work.
As luck would have it, AFKers aren't playing the game, and they don't gain anything from being AFK. Well… nothing other than what people around them give to them out of their own volition, but that' kind of charity isn't really something CCP can (or should) do anything about and it has nothing to do with their being AFK anyway.

Kingpin Nil wrote:
just to recap guys! its still a very much hot topic
…and that still doesn't make it an actual problem. So again, what's the problem?
Taria Katelo
Doomheim
#72 - 2012-12-21 11:41:02 UTC
i like the idea of cloaked ships not appearing in local (unless they talk there) because after all, why would they. It doesnt make sense to broadcast any signal throughout the whole system when you are cloaked and want to hide.....
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#73 - 2012-12-21 11:42:06 UTC
A simple solution would be to give cloaks a cycle timer, and maybe even a "cooldown" depending on which cloak it is. This is ofc if there actually is a need for a change.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#74 - 2012-12-21 11:45:44 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
A simple solution would be to give cloaks a cycle timer, and maybe even a "cooldown" depending on which cloak it is. This is ofc if there actually is a need for a change.
How would that change anything without breaking cloaking?
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#75 - 2012-12-21 11:52:02 UTC
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
The point is that all those who cry about AFK cloakers should really try to play Factional Warfare lowsec missions for a while, although I know that they are too scared to do so. After the changes, which are pretty good actually, it looks like this:
- Your mission is located exclusively in the opposing militia's lowsec regions, which are usually 2-15 jumps away from your agent;
- The moment you click "Warp to" in order to go to your mission, a publicly viewable beacon pops out in the overview that is visible throughout the whole system;
- If the occupancy of the system is held by the opposing militia, you are denied docking rights to any station in that system;
- You do not have AFK cloakers, you have an active bunch of opposing militia members who gain Loyalty Points and Millitia standings when they blast your ship;
- When I played in the FW, it was not important how many of reds are in local, but how many of them are actively hunting me. Although, my rule was that I should be extra careful when there are more than 7 reds in local (statistically speaking, the percentage of those who are hunting in combination with 7+ reds makes it dangerous to proceed)

Yet, hundreds of players do these missions every day (until recently including me) without any problems.

And you are complaining about a single afk cloaker deep inside your own territory where you can dock or run to a POS at any time while not having a big shiny beacon that say "RATTER IS HERE" in the overview? Seriously?


You and a lot of others seem to be missing the point entirely! its not about the old argument of not being able to mine or rat because a red is in local! its about being able to affect the game while you are not even behind your keyboard.

so many people are so eager to direct this conversation away from the simple point I'm trying to make! why are you logging into eve just to remain afk? I made a number of suggestions and workable solutions and I will be enquiring to ccp directly over this matter and passing on this threat for further review.

i will also post their in game response to some question relating to this topic stay tuned.
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#76 - 2012-12-21 11:52:41 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
A simple solution would be to give cloaks a cycle timer, and maybe even a "cooldown" depending on which cloak it is. This is ofc if there actually is a need for a change.
How would that change anything without breaking cloaking?


you should read the first post!
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#77 - 2012-12-21 11:53:20 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
A simple solution would be to give cloaks a cycle timer, and maybe even a "cooldown" depending on which cloak it is. This is ofc if there actually is a need for a change.


another good idea.
Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#78 - 2012-12-21 11:56:40 UTC
Kingpin Nil wrote:


You and a lot of others seem to be missing the point entirely! its not about the old argument of not being able to mine or rat because a red is in local! its about being able to affect the game while you are not even behind your keyboard.

so many people are so eager to direct this conversation away from the simple point I'm trying to make! why are you logging into eve just to remain afk? I made a number of suggestions and workable solutions and I will be enquiring to ccp directly over this matter and passing on this threat for further review.

i will also post their in game response to some question relating to this topic stay tuned.


But if you are not stopped from doing anything while the cloaked red is in local, how exactly is he affecting the game?
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#79 - 2012-12-21 11:57:28 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
A simple solution would be to give cloaks a cycle timer, and maybe even a "cooldown" depending on which cloak it is. This is ofc if there actually is a need for a change.
How would that change anything without breaking cloaking?


It would make cloaking and going to sleep next to impossible without breaking the EULA. It would also give people a chance to catch cloakers while they are in between timers, and lastly depending on the length of the timers it shouldn't really "break" cloaking.

Once again I have no idea if cloaking even needs fixing or changing, nor do I really care. It was just an idea.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#80 - 2012-12-21 11:59:13 UTC
Kingpin Nil wrote:
Its about being able to affect the game while you are not even behind your keyboard.


Happens all the time, you can not use that as an argument to change cloaking mechanics.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.