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The real reason behind the HORRIBLE new NPC AI increase
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Knownasthatguy
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-12-21 19:27:17 UTC
Quote:


You are comparing EvE with SWG? That is hilarious.

Secondly, GTC is a good barometer of how ISK is moving through the game relative to those buying them on the online market. Because of this, your logic is flawed. People can only sell the PLEX for as much as willing to pay for it, and if you pay attention to CCP reports, about 3/4 of PLEX is being withheld due to speculation. If people get poorer on a wide enough scale, you will see PLEX prices go down. CCP is slicing the non-risk Isk faucets to the game. When Incursions took the hit, missions were soon to follow. Before that, anomalies took the hit. Now Moon Goo is being looked at.

By the end of the day, I fully expect ratting, DED sites, anomalies, and WH space to be the best Isk/hr ration of isk in the game (in ascending order) and I think that is acceptable given the risk/reward scheme. I know all the Hisec'ers want to be space rich like everyone else, but your lifestyle lacks the risk to do so. You can be space rich, but you can't be allowed to accumulate the wealth as fast as someone who lacks local (put that one in for you nullbears too!).


If the game is engineered in an isk to risk ratio I would agree, but its not. There is nothing about the price of ships to mission payout that says things are equatable, given the factor of risk due to a new AI. Right now, one cannot "grind" to earn; to grind better, to earn better. The only recourse is to spend "legal tender" because: 1) it's far easier to earn 1.1B in isk in the amount of time it takes to buy/sale it; 2) the mission difficulty to market affordability slope is far too steep; and 3) It's far easier to pay to play than play.

This game can be compared to SWG in terms of broad sweeping changes without over the horizon insight on consequences of such adjustments. Look at the recent patches released, they clearly show CCP coming out with new ideas, then walking them back because they lack the forward thinking required to keep the game from spiraling out of control. The Jita revolt is a prime example of such poor decisions.

I only point these things out because i have 7 years experience playing this game, as such, my observations are exactly what they are; view points from a consumer buying a product that is turning into something different than what I originally purchased.
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#22 - 2012-12-21 19:36:20 UTC
I came up with an explanation for things like this....

"9 out of 10 conspiracies are actually incompetence".
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#23 - 2012-12-21 19:49:50 UTC
Buy bpo, buy or mine for materials, cost=time, problem solved as you build as many as you need.
Knownasthatguy
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-12-21 20:47:34 UTC
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:
I came up with an explanation for things like this....

"9 out of 10 conspiracies are actually incompetence".



Sarcasim is the lowest form of debate
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2012-12-21 21:09:57 UTC
Mother Ducks
Quack LLC
#26 - 2012-12-21 21:36:44 UTC
Knownasthatguy wrote:
Quote:


You are comparing EvE with SWG? That is hilarious.

Secondly, GTC is a good barometer of how ISK is moving through the game relative to those buying them on the online market. Because of this, your logic is flawed. People can only sell the PLEX for as much as willing to pay for it, and if you pay attention to CCP reports, about 3/4 of PLEX is being withheld due to speculation. If people get poorer on a wide enough scale, you will see PLEX prices go down. CCP is slicing the non-risk Isk faucets to the game. When Incursions took the hit, missions were soon to follow. Before that, anomalies took the hit. Now Moon Goo is being looked at.

By the end of the day, I fully expect ratting, DED sites, anomalies, and WH space to be the best Isk/hr ration of isk in the game (in ascending order) and I think that is acceptable given the risk/reward scheme. I know all the Hisec'ers want to be space rich like everyone else, but your lifestyle lacks the risk to do so. You can be space rich, but you can't be allowed to accumulate the wealth as fast as someone who lacks local (put that one in for you nullbears too!).


If the game is engineered in an isk to risk ratio I would agree, but its not. There is nothing about the price of ships to mission payout that says things are equatable, given the factor of risk due to a new AI. Right now, one cannot "grind" to earn; to grind better, to earn better. The only recourse is to spend "legal tender" because: 1) it's far easier to earn 1.1B in isk in the amount of time it takes to buy/sale it; 2) the mission difficulty to market affordability slope is far too steep; and 3) It's far easier to pay to play than play.

This game can be compared to SWG in terms of broad sweeping changes without over the horizon insight on consequences of such adjustments. Look at the recent patches released, they clearly show CCP coming out with new ideas, then walking them back because they lack the forward thinking required to keep the game from spiraling out of control. The Jita revolt is a prime example of such poor decisions.

I only point these things out because i have 7 years experience playing this game, as such, my observations are exactly what they are; view points from a consumer buying a product that is turning into something different than what I originally purchased.


The Jita Riot was a response to the notion of "Pay to Win" entering the arena, not "Pay to Play." Missions are still an infinite resource of isk within the safety of highsec. The idea is that as you accrue isk, you invest it into your mission boat in order to make the missions less painful as well as go by faster. Now, the same can be said about ratting/missioning/anomalies within Low/NullSec, but those have a significantly higher risk factor. So the argument that "Missions are hard and don't pay enough" is invalid in this conversation. There is no labeled payout line that makes missions worth it, but there should be a definite ceiling to where Low/Null become more profitable than high.

In short, it's not time v money making alone. You have to add in risk v reward. THAT is what justifies these High Sec changes.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#27 - 2012-12-21 23:41:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
make mission rewards zero. remove npc bounty. you'll still see me undock just to float around in shinies.

you know what, why waste my time. I'll just play on singularity from now on. I won't even have to plex

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#28 - 2012-12-22 00:08:09 UTC
The level 4 missions mite have gotten alittle harder.

But that just raises the skill req. of level 4's.

I still make just as much isk from level 4's today as before the patch.

As more and more people stop doing them I will probly end up making more then before.

1.) Alot of salvage comes from level 4 missions.

2.) BS loot drops will be worth more with less people generating drops and looting them.

So as I see it.

This is a bounes to my mission running.

I still complet missions just as fast as before.

With only a few were I have to though on that full tank for full argo but that's not much of a problem as it's only a few missions like that.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#29 - 2012-12-22 00:17:45 UTC
risk vs reward is a dumb argument. by its logic, the only way to make high sec fair is make the reward zero (because the risk is zero).

risk vs reward. you can't be serious.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-12-22 00:23:18 UTC
plex costs more than a subscribtion
yes i know plex costs ISK which means £0 real money
but in realworld terms the cost to buy plex with £ is more than the cost to pay for 30days

but get plex with isk i have to focus on isk/hr
focusing on isk/hr makes eve more like a job

i do not play eve to work
i play eve to have fun
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2012-12-22 00:26:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
I'm with you. I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner, but ... did you know stuff costs just 100 isk on buckingham?

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Knownasthatguy
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-12-22 00:32:42 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
no, judge judy is the lowest form of debait


this is very true
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2012-12-22 00:35:11 UTC
Knownasthatguy
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-12-22 00:36:56 UTC
Mother Ducks wrote:
Knownasthatguy wrote:
Quote:


You are comparing EvE with SWG? That is hilarious.

Secondly, GTC is a good barometer of how ISK is moving through the game relative to those buying them on the online market. Because of this, your logic is flawed. People can only sell the PLEX for as much as willing to pay for it, and if you pay attention to CCP reports, about 3/4 of PLEX is being withheld due to speculation. If people get poorer on a wide enough scale, you will see PLEX prices go down. CCP is slicing the non-risk Isk faucets to the game. When Incursions took the hit, missions were soon to follow. Before that, anomalies took the hit. Now Moon Goo is being looked at.

By the end of the day, I fully expect ratting, DED sites, anomalies, and WH space to be the best Isk/hr ration of isk in the game (in ascending order) and I think that is acceptable given the risk/reward scheme. I know all the Hisec'ers want to be space rich like everyone else, but your lifestyle lacks the risk to do so. You can be space rich, but you can't be allowed to accumulate the wealth as fast as someone who lacks local (put that one in for you nullbears too!).


If the game is engineered in an isk to risk ratio I would agree, but its not. There is nothing about the price of ships to mission payout that says things are equatable, given the factor of risk due to a new AI. Right now, one cannot "grind" to earn; to grind better, to earn better. The only recourse is to spend "legal tender" because: 1) it's far easier to earn 1.1B in isk in the amount of time it takes to buy/sale it; 2) the mission difficulty to market affordability slope is far too steep; and 3) It's far easier to pay to play than play.

This game can be compared to SWG in terms of broad sweeping changes without over the horizon insight on consequences of such adjustments. Look at the recent patches released, they clearly show CCP coming out with new ideas, then walking them back because they lack the forward thinking required to keep the game from spiraling out of control. The Jita revolt is a prime example of such poor decisions.

I only point these things out because i have 7 years experience playing this game, as such, my observations are exactly what they are; view points from a consumer buying a product that is turning into something different than what I originally purchased.


The Jita Riot was a response to the notion of "Pay to Win" entering the arena, not "Pay to Play." Missions are still an infinite resource of isk within the safety of highsec. The idea is that as you accrue isk, you invest it into your mission boat in order to make the missions less painful as well as go by faster. Now, the same can be said about ratting/missioning/anomalies within Low/NullSec, but those have a significantly higher risk factor. So the argument that "Missions are hard and don't pay enough" is invalid in this conversation. There is no labeled payout line that makes missions worth it, but there should be a definite ceiling to where Low/Null become more profitable than high.

In short, it's not time v money making alone. You have to add in risk v reward. THAT is what justifies these High Sec changes.




That is just my point, the new AI has skewed that paradigm unevenly. And you are also wrong about hisec being "safe". You have to fight ninja ratters, WDs, and people ganking your shinny ship. I dont know where you spend your time, but hisec is not some safe hideout, especially with the new bounty system.
Knownasthatguy
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-12-22 00:44:31 UTC
Rip Minner wrote:
The level 4 missions mite have gotten alittle harder.

But that just raises the skill req. of level 4's.

I still make just as much isk from level 4's today as before the patch.

As more and more people stop doing them I will probly end up making more then before.

1.) Alot of salvage comes from level 4 missions.

2.) BS loot drops will be worth more with less people generating drops and looting them.

So as I see it.

This is a bounes to my mission running.

I still complet missions just as fast as before.

With only a few were I have to though on that full tank for full argo but that's not much of a problem as it's only a few missions like that.


This is certainly true if your doctrine is not drones or you are a noob player. I have 77M SP, so i can kill these missions with whatever i want, but drones gave me the opportunity to multitask. I could pop rats then loot and salvage, all before some AHOLE ninja salvages my stuff. But since GTCs can go for 1.1B, people are just flooding the game with isk, making you (the mission runner) spend more time to earn a living in order to keep up with the rise in product.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#36 - 2012-12-22 00:47:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
DUDE. train on tranquility, undock on buckingham. it's not worth fighting over, high sec is already crapola.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Julius Priscus
#37 - 2012-12-22 14:38:16 UTC
Jiji Hamin wrote:
Nope! Please try again. If you had a brain you might have come to the conclusion that they want people to get involved in better content like incursions, wormhole space, FW or to leave their parents' house and get into dangerous space via much of the aformentioned content OR just to run anoms in null. OR you could go with the conspiracy theory that they did this because there is too much isk in the economy and they want people to mine.



down with ALL missions and up with MORE incursions.
Julius Priscus
#38 - 2012-12-22 14:39:33 UTC
Knownasthatguy wrote:
Rip Minner wrote:
The level 4 missions mite have gotten alittle harder.

But that just raises the skill req. of level 4's.

I still make just as much isk from level 4's today as before the patch.

As more and more people stop doing them I will probly end up making more then before.

1.) Alot of salvage comes from level 4 missions.

2.) BS loot drops will be worth more with less people generating drops and looting them.

So as I see it.

This is a bounes to my mission running.

I still complet missions just as fast as before.

With only a few were I have to though on that full tank for full argo but that's not much of a problem as it's only a few missions like that.


This is certainly true if your doctrine is not drones or you are a noob player. I have 77M SP, so i can kill these missions with whatever i want, but drones gave me the opportunity to multitask. I could pop rats then loot and salvage, all before some AHOLE ninja salvages my stuff. But since GTCs can go for 1.1B, people are just flooding the game with isk, making you (the mission runner) spend more time to earn a living in order to keep up with the rise in product.



how is selling plex's flooding the game???

DO SHARE PLEASE!
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-12-22 17:14:31 UTC
So because you don't like something, IT MUST BE A CONSPIRACY FOR THEM TO MAKE MORE MONEY! Umm... no.
Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2012-12-22 19:03:50 UTC
So, umm, what's actually broken that CCP needs to fix?

You might want to lay out your foundation before making claims that they don't want to "fix" it.

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