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Battlestar Galactica

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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#21 - 2012-12-23 07:44:04 UTC
Contrary to some of its naysayer's opinions, DS9 was actually good because it happened mostly on a station (at least earlier on).
They had to focus on character-driven plots at least half of the time, since you couldn't just constantly meet up some fancy-schmancy dangerous space anomaly or ancient powerful doodad or whatever else every other episode.
All in all, DS9 had the most fleshed out characters, with the most detailed backstory, and the most elaborate story arcs of all ST shows combined... which was, IMO, a pretty darn good thing.
Riall
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-12-23 08:11:18 UTC
Akita T wrote:
Contrary to some of its naysayer's opinions, DS9 was actually good because it happened mostly on a station (at least earlier on).
They had to focus on character-driven plots at least half of the time, since you couldn't just constantly meet up some fancy-schmancy dangerous space anomaly or ancient powerful doodad or whatever else every other episode.
All in all, DS9 had the most fleshed out characters, with the most detailed backstory, and the most elaborate story arcs of all ST shows combined... which was, IMO, a pretty darn good thing.

Don't forget that they were also contemporary with Babylon 5, and a few years in B5 actually started to have an impact on DS9 in terms of how they told stories.

"Buy PLEX, don't be a space butt"

Keepin' it... me.

Gogela
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#23 - 2012-12-23 09:37:55 UTC
I liked DS9...

But it pales next to BSG. Never has a better story been told P

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Ion Crux
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2012-12-23 10:41:08 UTC
Best show ever! Watched it twice enjoyed ever second! Love some Starbuck!
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#25 - 2012-12-23 12:54:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Yes. Even though I was unable to see most of the final 2 seasons of BSG, it did shoot to the top of my list of probably the best SF series outside of the Star Trek franchise. They both have different sensibilities and presentation modes, so it would be useless to call one better than the other. I just consider them in the same rarified cloud of 'bests'.

And for once the mainstream critics were agog, the more intelligent ones even calling it the best series ever. It was amazing how much I read that was along those lines.

That reaction hasn't even been closely achieved until "Game of Thrones" came along (which I appreciate all the more having originally read Martin's Sci-Fi stories starting in the late 70's - "Sandkings" in Omni magazine and all that), but I'm not about to start a threadnaught about that show, so I'll just stop right here..........

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-01-31 05:39:43 UTC
Akita T wrote:
Except that we know the whole final season (especially the second half) was a major seat-of-your-pants asspull by the producers and writers. It's only "magical" if you "will it" to be so, while also ignoring anything of what is common knowledge regarding what actually happened in real life with the show.
As far as I am concerned, they totally failed to deliver on any serious expectations, and the finale was somewhat of a letdown (or, if you prefer, cop-out) in artistic terms.

That being said, the first three seasons were quite good. Not the best they could be, but good enough to warrant attention from me.
Anyway, the point is, I disagree with the "best sci-fi show you will ever watch" label.
MAYBE somewhere near the middle of the top 10, if we're being generous.

Babylon 5, Firefly, various Star Treks (my personal fav being ST-DS9), The Outer Limits,Stargate SG-1 (not so much the others), or say, Farscape, even less "pure sci-fi" ones like Eureka, Fringe and Doctor Who are better contenders for the top few spots IMO.

Don't get me wrong, it's a "must watch" show for Sci-Fi fans, but not the first name on my lips if I had to make a list.


I love BSG. But I think there have been better done sci fi shows. I will say this. When BSG was at the top of it's game, there hasnt been a more relevent sci fi series on TV before or since. Hell, at it's best, it was one of the best shows on TV, period.

But it was too inconsistent and had some bad filler episodes and the "Lets give up all technology and live like cavemen" ending was really a What the Frak! moment if there ever was one.

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB

Juno Valerii
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-01-31 11:46:48 UTC
I'm a huge BSg fan...both the original and the remake (BSG 1980 does not exist). I have to say if it's not the best sci-fi show of the last 15 years it is damn close. Firefly and B5 are up there as well. They all have flaws mind you but acceptable ones IMO.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#28 - 2013-01-31 13:06:52 UTC
Wow, talk about Necro-Thread !

I never even Unsubscribed from it as it had just vanished utterly for a month.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#29 - 2013-01-31 18:42:11 UTC
Interesting comments so far, oddly enough, the religious aspect was something I was expecting since day one and actually felt overjoyed at how the series turned up.

I am a hardcore fan of New BSG, having bought in a materialistic urge several of its based games, shirts and odds and ends.

DS9 was a letdown for me, but I , unlike a lot of people around, enjoyed greatly TNG.

Firefly was good, Babylon 5 was unparalleled in history, background and that strange sense of alien cultures, but for me Babylon 5 is like the standard to measure Sci-Fi in terms of depth.

Farscape was still for me, a strange taste in the mouth, being more of a Andromeda fan (snicker).

Back to BSG what I really enjoyed out of it was the drama. And the first time I saw it, I saw the whole 4 seasons in like a week of 9am to midnight marathons straight. So hooked I was on it, only series that grabbed me like that.

I enjoy the human aspect of series, thats why I enjoyed the feeling of imminent doom in the MILLENIUM tv series, with the best chapter being "Somehow Satan got behind me" . To this day no other series has burned a chapter so deep in my mind as this one. It even derails a bit from the show premise of Frank Black to show something else happening in the world indirectly related to him. Those 4 demons talking about how to ruin humanity into sin was just ... flawless.

BSG, specially the Pianist scene, the Blind Lawyer´s cat, Starbuck´s angst against the uncaring universe, and woa, so much more. I really enjoy that, pew pew and psychotic religious robots are just a bonus.

But then again, thats the good thing and the bad thing about tastes and personal preferences. We all can relate somehow to a thing, be it a tv series, or a book, or practically anything else despite everything else we don´t share in common with each other.

Love the comments here, specially those that explain viewpoints.

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco

Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#30 - 2013-01-31 18:48:20 UTC
Montevius Williams wrote:


But it was too inconsistent and had some bad filler episodes and the "Lets give up all technology and live like cavemen" ending was really a What the Frak! moment if there ever was one.


It was more something about cycles, the endless cycles of creation/destruction than anything else, either by choice or not. And well, you do know BSG has a healthy dosage of Mormonism dont you? The New series tried to veer a bit away from it, but maintaned a good chunk.

Same as Middle Earth is heavily influenced by Christianism, a fact disclosed several times by the author himself publicly.

The religious overtones are well, just that. You can still see them as matter of fact tv shows, but lose some of the intended meaning.

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#31 - 2013-01-31 18:51:01 UTC
Brujo Loco wrote:
you do know BSG has a healthy dosage of Mormonism dont you? The New series tried to veer a bit away from it, but maintaned a good chunk.


First time I've heard that and I'm not seeing it. Care to elaborate ?

Brujo Loco wrote:
Same as Middle Earth is heavily influenced by Christianism, a fact disclosed several times by the author himself publicly.


Let's be clear that it is specifically Catholicism, as stated by the author.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Gogela
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#32 - 2013-01-31 19:51:26 UTC
Sometime into season 2 of BSG I went back and watched an episode from the 1978 BSG called "War of the Gods Part II". In it the crew of the old BSG finds an even older wrecked Galactica on a planet, presumably from an earlier iteration of BSG. It was kind of neat. The implication was that the "Gods" are essentially cylon/humans trying to maintain some kind of balance. ...at least that was how I read it.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Juno Valerii
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-02-01 00:58:32 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Sometime into season 2 of BSG I went back and watched an episode from the 1978 BSG called "War of the Gods Part II". In it the crew of the old BSG finds an even older wrecked Galactica on a planet, presumably from an earlier iteration of BSG. It was kind of neat. The implication was that the "Gods" are essentially cylon/humans trying to maintain some kind of balance. ...at least that was how I read it.


That's the episode where Starbuck dies and comes back to life, resurrected by the lights chasing Count Iblis if I remember correctly.

Love that one. All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again.
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-02-01 02:09:28 UTC
Brujo Loco wrote:
Montevius Williams wrote:


But it was too inconsistent and had some bad filler episodes and the "Lets give up all technology and live like cavemen" ending was really a What the Frak! moment if there ever was one.


It was more something about cycles, the endless cycles of creation/destruction than anything else, either by choice or not. And well, you do know BSG has a healthy dosage of Mormonism dont you? The New series tried to veer a bit away from it, but maintaned a good chunk.

Same as Middle Earth is heavily influenced by Christianism, a fact disclosed several times by the author himself publicly.

The religious overtones are well, just that. You can still see them as matter of fact tv shows, but lose some of the intended meaning.


Yea, I get it and I didnt mind the religious overtones at all. I mean, Caprica 6 pretty much said she was an angel from day 1 and was pretty much talkign about her God throughout the entire series.

And the finale as a whole was great. The Adama/Roslin story arch was perfect and they ended it perfectly. I just didnt like the decision to forgo all tech. Just didnt seem right to me.

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB

Juno Valerii
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-02-01 11:24:16 UTC
Montevius Williams wrote:


Yea, I get it and I didnt mind the religious overtones at all. I mean, Caprica 6 pretty much said she was an angel from day 1 and was pretty much talkign about her God throughout the entire series.

And the finale as a whole was great. The Adama/Roslin story arch was perfect and they ended it perfectly. I just didnt like the decision to forgo all tech. Just didnt seem right to me.


I don't think they simply abandoned all tech. I saw it as a the last remnants of a species who had grown weary. They chose to disassociate themselves from all aspects of their past. They chose to start over. It was a terribly fitting decision.
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#36 - 2013-02-01 12:57:59 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Brujo Loco wrote:
you do know BSG has a healthy dosage of Mormonism dont you? The New series tried to veer a bit away from it, but maintaned a good chunk.


First time I've heard that and I'm not seeing it. Care to elaborate ?


Sure, first of all Glen A. Larson was a devout Mormon, the original show creator.

Quote:

Originally, the series was intended to be called Adama's Ark, and the show incorporated many themes from Mormon theology, such as marriage for "time and eternity" and a "council of twelve." Larson, a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in real life,[1][2] had been working on the concept since 1968, and Gene L. Coon had been providing guidance and mentoring to him through the writing of its earliest incarnations. Larson is credited with coining the word "battlestar," a contraction of the phrase "line-of-battle starship", after being convinced to rename Adama's Ark to include the word "star" in the title in some way, in order to capitalize on the popularity of the then recently-released mega-hit, Star Wars. He is also credited with creating the faux curse word "frak."


Now, as I said before, the NEW BSG tried to skim most of this, yet some of the original ideas remain

Now to avoid some issues I will capitalize some here thanks to the work of some people

Observations on the correlation between Battlestar Galactica and the LDS Church.

Note: Glen A. Larson was a member of the Mormon Church and certainly was
more than aware that he was creating a parallel between the show and the church.


1. Organization:
BSG: The colonies were based on a president and a council or quorum of twelve. The two words "council" and "quorum" are used synonymously.

LDS: The LDS church is headed by a president and a council or quorum of twelve. The two words "council" and "quorum" are used synonymously.

2. Origin:
BSG: The colonies originated on the planet Kobol, were all life began. The "Lords" lived there. It was called "The Lost Planet of Ancient Gods".

LDS: The LDS church believes that the Lord lives on the planet Kolob (see The Book of Abraham, Ch. 3, found in The Pearl of Great Price.)


3. Tribes:
BSG: The colonies were started by the 13 tribes which left Kobol and formed the 12 colonies. The thirteenth tribe was lost and is believed to have gone to the Earth. In "Saga of a Star World," Commander Adama delivered the following speech about their origins: "Our recorded history tells us we descended from a mother colony, a race that went out into space to establish colonies. Those of us assembled here now represent the only known surviving Colonists, save one. A sister world, far out in the universe, remembered to us only through ancient writings..." He goes on to assert that the "lost thirteenth tribe" colonized Earth. Something called The Book of The Word described the journey of the tribes of man away from Kobol.

LDS: The LDS church believes that the 13 tribes of Isreal were scattered and colonized the Earth. The 13th tribe was lost, but is believed to be in an undiscovered part of the Earth. Some have concluded that the Book of Mormon describes the 13th tribe and its journey to the Western Hemisphere. This is incorrect. The l3th tribe is still considered lost.


4. Egyptians:
BSG: The ancient records and the culture of the colonies is based on hieroglyphics and pyramids. The fighter helmet worn in a viper strongly resembles an Egyptian Sphinx.

LDS: The LDS information about Kolob and similar topics is supported by a document called the Pearl of Great Price which contains hieroglyphics written in ancient Egypt, and translated by a modern day president.


5. Marriage:
BSG: The colonists use the word "seal" in preference to marriage, and a couple is sealed "not only for now but for all the eternities." (Adama in Lost Planet of Ancient Gods.)

LDS: In the LDS church, marriage refers to a secular joining and "sealing" referes to a bond sanctified by God and "not only for time, but for all eternity."


6. Younger Wives:
BSG: In "Living Legend", Apollo tells Starbuck to re-read the Book of the Word, some of the ancient leaders of the tribes "were married to some very young wives."

LDS: In the LDS church, older leaders of the church frequently have young wives.


7. Nature of God:
BSG: The colonists believe that gods are progressed and more perfect and knowledgeable humans. At the end of War of the Gods, Part 2, the superior life form ("angel") uses the words "As you are now, we once were; as we are now, you may become" to explain the relationship between them and man.

LDS: The LDS church believes identically. Lorenzo Snow, an early Mormon President and Prophet, said, "As man is now, God once was; as God now is, man may become."

Etc Etc ... easy to link up, google it, look around, etc, etc.

Even the second show which had him removed still nominally had him I think as a "Consultant".

It´s pretty washed up in the new BSG, but the core still remains.

Nothing wrong with that in my eyes, and please just as a warning let´s not derail this into you know what haha Big smile

Keep the Sci Fi thread alive!

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#37 - 2013-02-01 14:56:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
BS:G never really got me. My first disappointment with its shoddy story-telling was with the "cylon detector" and how nobody ever cared to use it, and I was pretty much lost after the bullshit about how the cylons had only one resurrection ship and once lost they would not be able to ressurrect... That was so much against common sense that i pretty much watched a few episodes more, saw Starbuck die but not die and then I scrapped the whole thing from my HD.

Babylon 5 stills is the best story ever told on TV SF (minus the unnecessary, out-of-arch last season) and probably had more matureness in a single episode than whole seasons of garbage like Lost and other pseudo-SF.

(Poor SF looks like a rule these days... i recall some series that managed to lose me straight from the trailer, was a series with some plot bullshit about "electricity disappearing forever"... can't recall the name but my stupid-o-meter goes out of scale each time I recall such a shoddy unscientific plot twist)

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#38 - 2013-02-01 15:28:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Micheal Dietrich
Brujo Loco wrote:
Comparison stuff



Well I think that answers the question of why my friends mother enjoyed the series so much. I'm going to have to point this out to him when I get home.

I just finished up rewatching the series again. My 2 favorite scenes from the whole series consists of the battle scene on New Caprica when they combat jump Galactica right into atmo, and the scene where Galactica makes its final jump and finally buckles.

As for the cylon detector, it was never guaranteed to work right or else it would have caught Chief, the XO, and his wife, and because Baltar lied about Boomer it was deemed inconsistent and unreliable, hence why it wasn't used much.

However I do agree that the Kara Thrace death, rebirth, and eventual disappearing act was a crap story arch and didn't care for that at all.

It also bugs me that that so many people watched Gaius be batshit crazy day after day, what with ramming himself into walls, twisting his own arms, choking himself with his tie, jerking off in a room full of blood samples, and generally having rather revealing conversations with himself, and through all that nobody thought once to maybe locked him up in a padded room or perhaps remove him from such sensitive departments. Instead they opted to make him a president and then a cult leader.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **

Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-02-01 17:30:11 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Brujo Loco wrote:
Comparison stuff



Well I think that answers the question of why my friends mother enjoyed the series so much. I'm going to have to point this out to him when I get home.

I just finished up rewatching the series again. My 2 favorite scenes from the whole series consists of the battle scene on New Caprica when they combat jump Galactica right into atmo, and the scene where Galactica makes its final jump and finally buckles.

As for the cylon detector, it was never guaranteed to work right or else it would have caught Chief, the XO, and his wife, and because Baltar lied about Boomer it was deemed inconsistent and unreliable, hence why it wasn't used much.

However I do agree that the Kara Thrace death, rebirth, and eventual disappearing act was a crap story arch and didn't care for that at all.

It also bugs me that that so many people watched Gaius be batshit crazy day after day, what with ramming himself into walls, twisting his own arms, choking himself with his tie, jerking off in a room full of blood samples, and generally having rather revealing conversations with himself, and through all that nobody thought once to maybe locked him up in a padded room or perhaps remove him from such sensitive departments. Instead they opted to make him a president and then a cult leader.


Yea the Galactica atmosphere drop was a jaw drop moment for me.

I liked Kara Thrace pre death. She was bad ass. After her death, she didnt have the same impact as a character since she was something other than human.

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#40 - 2013-02-01 18:30:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


(Poor SF looks like a rule these days... i recall some series that managed to lose me straight from the trailer, was a series with some plot bullshit about "electricity disappearing forever"... can't recall the name but my stupid-o-meter goes out of scale each time I recall such a shoddy unscientific plot twist)


Yes Indeed.

Most of the newer 'sci-fi' shows are just near-future based twists on our current reality.

Hard SF seems to have completely vanished.
EDIT: (from TV)

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

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