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So is it safe to say that Amarr ships right now are kinda suck?

Author
Entrepreuna
Crimson Dawn Enterprises
#41 - 2012-12-21 14:23:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Entrepreuna
FYI:

Test has doctrines for:

Apocs

Guardians

Oracles

Navy Apocs

Damnation

Zealot

Curse

Archons

Revs

Super caps

That's a lot of Amarr ships.... The 4 conventional ships that we fly every day I have put in bold. If you think Amarr suck then you are clueless. They are a standard for large scale alliance PvP.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#42 - 2012-12-21 14:46:17 UTC
Otto Weston wrote:
I must disagree with most of your points.

Punisher - Solid PVP Frigate
Tormentor - Wild Card PVP frigate

Legion - Ok I agree here. It's sub-par.

Yes lasers use cap, but you gain so much. With T1 ammo you never have to reload.. range dicatation is easy with multiple ammo types and you have instant switching. Some ships are hard to fit with low amounts of mid slots, but that's what you pay for great tanks etc. Also most Amarr ships have in built cap reduction usage for lasers, and have larger capacitor pools anyway.

Some great ships -
Purifier (Best Bomber Imo)
Vengeance (Very Tough AF)
Maller (Gr8 Bait)
Pilgrim (Gr8 solo ship)
Curse (Gr8 gang ship)
Harbinger (High Dps, High Buffer, has enough mids)
Oracle (Nice Range, High Dps)
Absolution (High Dps, Ridiculous Active Tank)
Damnation (Ridiculous Buffer)

Battleships are ok apart from the poor Apoc. With the Oracle in existence, the only reason you'd pick an Apoc over an Oracle is for extra health.

Yes some ships are slow, but that's the playstyle, slow, tanky with good dps. If you didn't like the playstyle, you shouldn't have gone Amarr. Either way, I still love Amarr, and would choose it over the rest.


Apocs are our go-to heavy fleet doctrine ship. (T2 range rig, 2 TCs, Megapulse II). They're pretty damb good.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-12-21 14:49:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Entrepreuna wrote:
FYI:

Test has doctrines for:

Apocs

Guardians

Oracles

Navy Apocs

Damnation

Zealot

Curse

Archons

Revs

Super caps

That's a lot of Amarr ships.... The 4 conventional ships that we fly every day I have put in bold. If you think Amarr suck then you are clueless. They are a standard for large scale alliance PvP.


I like how only Five of those ships are sub-BS, out of like 40+ sub-BS ships.

Like I said, amarr subcap just sucks compared to the other races.

You never hear anybody going "Guys, we GOTTA do a harbinger roam!" Roll (inb4 hordes of nubs claiming they do harbinger roams daily and how their legion can solo 10 man fleets.)
Torothin
Crimson Dawn Enterprises
#44 - 2012-12-21 14:57:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Torothin
More like 7 are constantly used on a regular basis. That's a lot for one race. Name me an alliance that uses more ... Do you know what you are talking about?
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-12-21 15:14:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Torothin wrote:
More like 7 are constantly used on a regular basis. That's a lot for one race. ... Do you know what you are talking about?



Nope not at all.



Here are some examples.

Incursus - One of, if not the best T1 frigate atm.
Taranis - Still a beast.

Thorax - Shield or armor tank, great ship. Perfect balance of utility/tank/dps.
Vexor - Also a great ship for PvP and PvE.

Arazu - Great ship.
Proteus - THE best cloaky T3, rather fly this than a legion any day.

Myrm - Amazing tank, can fit full tackle and cap boosters (Amarr can't do that Twisted). Works great for solo/small gang.
Brutix - Disgusting DPS.
Talos - One of the best solo ships out there. Very fast and good damage projection.

Megathron - Great ship.
Dominix - Great utility ship.

Thanatos - Great
Nyx - Amazing
Erebus - Great
Moros - Great


Then the pirate faction ships:
Daredevil - Amazing.
Vigilant - Amazing.
Vindicator - Amazing.


So not only do they have great BS and cap ships, they also have a ton of ships that can be used in anywhere from solo to fleet warfare to great effect. Also pirate ships that don't blow. The ships are so versatile they can adapt to many situations.

Can Amarr even compete? The same generic make up for each ship. Slow and big buffer, no versatility, glaring weaknesses for solo/small gang work, literally the same ship over and over besides a few that are worth flying.

In my eyes if somebody trains gallente atm, they would be getting alot more for the SP invested.
Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#46 - 2012-12-21 15:15:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Ares Desideratus
Diesel47 wrote:
Entrepreuna wrote:
FYI:

Test has doctrines for:

Apocs

Guardians

Oracles

Navy Apocs

Damnation

Zealot

Curse

Archons

Revs

Super caps

That's a lot of Amarr ships.... The 4 conventional ships that we fly every day I have put in bold. If you think Amarr suck then you are clueless. They are a standard for large scale alliance PvP.


I like how only Five of those ships are sub-BS, out of like 40+ sub-BS ships.

Like I said, amarr subcap just sucks compared to the other races.

You never hear anybody going "Guys, we GOTTA do a harbinger roam!" Roll (inb4 hordes of nubs claiming they do harbinger roams daily and how their legion can solo 10 man fleets.)

What's wrong with the Harbinger?

Edit: ^^ Oh my goodness dude, get Gallente's balls out of your mouth, the Taranis hasn't been worth it's price in months and months.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-12-21 15:20:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Ares Desideratus wrote:

What's wrong with the Harbinger?

Edit: ^^ Oh my goodness dude, get Gallente's balls out of your mouth, the Taranis hasn't been worth it's price in months and months.


Get Amarrs **** out of your mouth. Just because you think the taranis is bad doesn't make the entire post invalid.

Amarr blows face it. Harbinger isn't worth flying because it doesn't do anything better than any other bc out there. Mediocre ship.
Torothin
Crimson Dawn Enterprises
#48 - 2012-12-21 15:24:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Torothin
Diesel47 wrote:
Torothin wrote:
More like 7 are constantly used on a regular basis. That's a lot for one race. ... Do you know what you are talking about?



Nope not at all.



Here are some examples.

Incursus - One of, if not the best T1 frigate atm.
Taranis - Still a beast.

Thorax - Shield or armor tank, great ship. Perfect balance of utility/tank/dps.
Vexor - Also a great ship for PvP and PvE.

Arazu - Great ship.
Proteus - THE best cloaky T3, rather fly this than a legion any day.

Myrm - Amazing tank, can fit full tackle and cap boosters (Amarr can't do that Twisted). Works great for solo/small gang.
Brutix - Disgusting DPS.
Talos - One of the best solo ships out there. Very fast and good damage projection.

Megathron - Great ship.
Dominix - Great utility ship.

Thanatos - Great
Nyx - Amazing
Erebus - Great
Moros - Great


Then the pirate faction ships:
Daredevil - Amazing.
Vigilant - Amazing.
Vindicator - Amazing.


So not only do they have great BS and cap ships, they also have a ton of ships that can be used in anywhere from solo to fleet warfare to great effect. Also pirate ships that don't blow. The ships are so versatile they can adapt to many situations.

Can Amarr even compete? The same generic make up for each ship. Slow and big buffer, no versatility, glaring weaknesses for solo/small gang work, literally the same ship over and over besides a few that are worth flying.

In my eyes if somebody trains gallente atm, they would be getting alot more for the SP invested.



First off, you have proven my point. Amarr carriers and super caps are superior in every way when comapred to gallente or any other race. They have the Moros which is the best dread. That's it. Myrm, brutix, talos are not feasible for large scale PvP. Small scale yes. But not large.

Mega and Domi are hardly ever used. The Domi is here and there but not much. Mega is not used at all. Same with the vindicator. Vexor is ok thorax you hardly ever see.

Curse is like the best ship for small scale PvP in game. Do I even need to talk about the Bhallgorn as well? Let's also not forget that the vengeance is superior to the other gallente afs. When push comes to shove and you compare what is used more for PvP. Amarr will win. Does gallente have an advantage at small scale PvP? Yes.

But are gallente feasible in large scale PvP? Absolutely not. Aside from caps you have:

Onieros

Arazu

Lachesis

and that is pretty much all she wrote. Some use the domi but not many. Either way you look at it. You are wrong. Amarr offers a wide variety of ships that are used on a consistent basis. You can say no all you want but you are flat out wrong.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-12-21 15:30:14 UTC
Torothin wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Torothin wrote:
More like 7 are constantly used on a regular basis. That's a lot for one race. ... Do you know what you are talking about?



Nope not at all.



Here are some examples.

Incursus - One of, if not the best T1 frigate atm.
Taranis - Still a beast.

Thorax - Shield or armor tank, great ship. Perfect balance of utility/tank/dps.
Vexor - Also a great ship for PvP and PvE.

Arazu - Great ship.
Proteus - THE best cloaky T3, rather fly this than a legion any day.

Myrm - Amazing tank, can fit full tackle and cap boosters (Amarr can't do that Twisted). Works great for solo/small gang.
Brutix - Disgusting DPS.
Talos - One of the best solo ships out there. Very fast and good damage projection.

Megathron - Great ship.
Dominix - Great utility ship.

Thanatos - Great
Nyx - Amazing
Erebus - Great
Moros - Great


Then the pirate faction ships:
Daredevil - Amazing.
Vigilant - Amazing.
Vindicator - Amazing.


So not only do they have great BS and cap ships, they also have a ton of ships that can be used in anywhere from solo to fleet warfare to great effect. Also pirate ships that don't blow. The ships are so versatile they can adapt to many situations.

Can Amarr even compete? The same generic make up for each ship. Slow and big buffer, no versatility, glaring weaknesses for solo/small gang work, literally the same ship over and over besides a few that are worth flying.

In my eyes if somebody trains gallente atm, they would be getting alot more for the SP invested.



First off, you have proven my point. Amarr carriers and super caps are superior in every way when comapred to gallente or any other race. They have the Moros which is the best dread. That's it. Myrm, brutix, talos are not feasible for large scale PvP. Small scale yes. But not large.

Mega and Domi are hardly ever used. The Domi is here and there but not much. Mega is not used at all. Same with the vindicator. Vexor is ok thorax you hardly ever see.

Curse is like the best ship for small scale PvP in game. Do I even need to talk about the Bhallgorn as well? Let's also not forget that the vengeance is superior to the other gallente afs. When push comes to shove and you compare what is used more for PvP. Amarr will win. Does gallente have an advantage at small scale PvP? Yes.

But are gallente feasible in large scale PvP? Absolutely not. Aside from caps you have:

Onieros

Arazu

Lachesis

and that is pretty much all she wrote. Some use the domi but not many.


Explain to me how the Erebus and Nyx are bad. They might be marginally weaker in some areas than the Amarr ships, but Amarr sub-bs compared to gallente sub-bs just gets completely slaughtered.

You see vexors and thorax alot more than you see any amarr cruisers out there.

You act as if the entire game is about large blob warfare to prove your point that amarr ships are fine. Because that is the only thing they can do.
Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#50 - 2012-12-21 15:34:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Ares Desideratus
Diesel47 wrote:
Ares Desideratus wrote:

What's wrong with the Harbinger?

Edit: ^^ Oh my goodness dude, get Gallente's balls out of your mouth, the Taranis hasn't been worth it's price in months and months.


Get Amarrs **** out of your mouth. Just because you think the taranis is bad doesn't make the entire post invalid.

Amarr blows face it. Harbinger isn't worth flying because it doesn't do anything better than any other bc out there. Mediocre ship.

I used to be the guy defending the Gallente from haters like you till I took an arrow.. nah jk

But who actually flies Tier 2 BC any more any ways? All I see is Nados and Taloses, with a dash of Naga and Oracle (can't remember the last time I saw a group of Drakes in low-sec)... the whole Tech I lineup is being rebalanced so you have nothing to complain about other than the Harbi being "slightly inferior" to the Hurricane (even tho it does better damage / projection but whatevs)

And even so, the Battlecruiser lineup is the only place you have a CHANCE of making the Amarr seem weak, go down or up in ship class and you have no argument.

So perhaps it is you who should latch on a better grip to the Amarr's big ol' nut sack.
Entrepreuna
Crimson Dawn Enterprises
#51 - 2012-12-21 15:34:38 UTC
More tank from the super cap side. The moros is the only cap that the gallente have that is better. Like I stated before. If Gallente ships are so beast as you claim. Large entities which consist of thousands of pvpers would use them more. it's as simple as that. I am assuming we should follow your claims and all ditch our Amarr doctrines due to Gallente apparently owning everything like you claim right? I assume the thousands of PvPers within these alliance are wrong? Right?
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-12-21 15:39:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Entrepreuna wrote:
More tank from the super cap side. The moros is the only cap that the gallente have that is better. Like I stated before. If Gallente ships are so beast as you claim. Large entities which consist of thousands of pvpers would use them more. it's as simple as that. I am assuming we should follow your claims and all ditch our Amarr doctrines due to Gallente apparently owning everything like you claim right? I assume the thousands of PvPers within these alliance are wrong? Right?


nope you don't get it. I'll try to make it as simple as possible.

theres more to the game than blob warfare.

cap ships
Amarr - 10/10
Gall - 9/10

non-cap ships
Amarr - 2/10
Gall - 10/10

Ares Desideratus wrote:

I used to be the guy defending the Gallente from haters like you till I took an arrow.. nah jk

But who actually flies Tier 2 BC any more any ways? All I see is Nados and Taloses, with a dash of Naga and Oracle (can't remember the last time I saw a group of Drakes in low-sec)... the whole Tech I lineup is being rebalanced so you have nothing to complain about other than the Harbi being "slightly inferior" to the Hurricane (even tho it does better damage / projection but whatevs)

And even so, the Battlecruiser lineup is the only place you have a CHANCE of making the Amarr seem weak, go down or up in ship class and you have no argument.

So perhaps it is you who should get a better grip on the **** of Amarr.


Lol. Just because you kill T1 fitted RVB frigs and destroyers in your executioner doesn't mean that Amarr is balanced.

The harb is "very inferior" to a ship like the hurricane. Who flies tier2 BC? Idk man. Have you ever ventured into something that isn't hi-sec?

Amarr cruisers suck gallente ****. Idk what you are talking about.

The only thing keeping amarr alive is scorch and you know it.
Entrepreuna
Crimson Dawn Enterprises
#53 - 2012-12-21 15:49:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Entrepreuna
Diesel47 wrote:
Entrepreuna wrote:
More tank from the super cap side. The moros is the only cap that the gallente have that is better. Like I stated before. If Gallente ships are so beast as you claim. Large entities which consist of thousands of pvpers would use them more. it's as simple as that. I am assuming we should follow your claims and all ditch our Amarr doctrines due to Gallente apparently owning everything like you claim right? I assume the thousands of PvPers within these alliance are wrong? Right?


nope you don't get it. I'll try to make it as simple as possible.

theres more to the game than blob warfare.

cap ships
Amarr - 10/10
Gall - 9/10

non-cap ships
Amarr - 2/10
Gall - 10/10

Ares Desideratus wrote:

I used to be the guy defending the Gallente from haters like you till I took an arrow.. nah jk

But who actually flies Tier 2 BC any more any ways? All I see is Nados and Taloses, with a dash of Naga and Oracle (can't remember the last time I saw a group of Drakes in low-sec)... the whole Tech I lineup is being rebalanced so you have nothing to complain about other than the Harbi being "slightly inferior" to the Hurricane (even tho it does better damage / projection but whatevs)

And even so, the Battlecruiser lineup is the only place you have a CHANCE of making the Amarr seem weak, go down or up in ship class and you have no argument.

So perhaps it is you who should get a better grip on the **** of Amarr.


Lol. Just because you kill T1 fitted RVB frigs and destroyers in your executioner doesn't mean that Amarr is balanced.

The harb is "very inferior" to a ship like the hurricane. Who flies tier2 BC? Idk man. Have you ever ventured into something that isn't hi-sec?

Amarr cruisers suck gallente ****. Idk what you are talking about.

The only thing keeping amarr alive is scorch and you know it.


I do get it. You are the one who doesn't. it's like trying to explain fleet concepts to someone with down syndrome. Gallente ships have a small niche and that is it,. How many triage thannys do you see, how many domi fleets do you see? How many fleets of myrms are there? What about fleets of megathrons or diemoses?

Now ask yourself the same question about triage archons, apocs, Oracles, and zealots? My point exactly. Your statements are false. There is not a single ship in the game that Gallente have that can kill a Curse 1 on 1. How is that for small scale PvP?
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-12-21 15:51:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Entrepreuna wrote:


I do get it. You are the one who doesn't. it's like trying to explain fleet concepts to someone with down syndrome. Gallente ships have a small niche and that is it,. How many triage thannys do you see, how many domi fleets do you see? How many fleets of myrms are there? What about fleets of megathrons or diemoses?

Now ask yourself the same question about triage archons, apocs, Oracles, and zealots? My point exactly/


You know you lost when you start resorting to insults rofl.

Whats wrong? Big smile Can't form arguments without getting frustrated?



Also "You act as if the entire game is about large blob warfare to prove your point that amarr ships are fine. Because that is the only thing they can do."
Entrepreuna
Crimson Dawn Enterprises
#55 - 2012-12-21 15:53:31 UTC
Hello I just did. Ask yourself the above questions. Because there are none!
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#56 - 2012-12-21 16:01:22 UTC
Laser suck batteries. Active armor tanks sucks even more batteries. What do you need to keep batteries charged? Cap boosters. Where do cap boosters go? Mid slots. What do Amarr ships universally lack? Bingo!

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#57 - 2012-12-21 16:16:19 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Lol. Just because you kill T1 fitted RVB frigs and destroyers in your executioner doesn't mean that Amarr is balanced.

Actually, it means that the Amarr frigates are balanced.

Diesel47 wrote:
The harb is "very inferior" to a ship like the hurricane. Who flies tier2 BC? Idk man. Have you ever ventured into something that isn't hi-sec?

Actually I was just talking about low-sec and the lack of Tier 2 BC compared to Tier 3 these days. It's probably got something to do with Tier 3 BC obsoleting your precious Canes.

Diesel47 wrote:
Amarr cruisers suck gallente ****. Idk what you are talking about.

You don't know what you're talking about yourself either. Isn't any Omen not doing 500 DPS at Vagabond range? Isn't any Maller without 100k EHP?

Diesel47 wrote:
The only thing keeping amarr alive is scorch and you know it.

And the only thing keeping Minmatar alive is Barrage.

And if Caldari weren't so good they wouldn't be as good.

And if I wasn't better than you I'd lose in a fight.
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2012-12-21 16:26:23 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
I feel like Subcap Amarr ships are really underpowered atm..

Amarr frigates aren't so good.
Legion really sucks.
Guns use cap and 95% of ships have less than 3 mid slots so using cap boosters = no utility.
Most ships slower than molasses.
Everything else sucks.
EVERYTHING SUCKS D:

Stuff that doesn't suck:
Battleship+
Omen and friends.




So it seems like flying anything that isn't a Cap/Battleship will make you 2nd rate to everything else.

Alot of their ships specialize in just being tanky, painfully slow, and mediocre DPS.

The only subcap ships worth flying seem to be anything "omen" and maybe the sac.


damnation is awesome.
oracle is great
zealot is great
guardian is great
curse is awesome

you need to think on this some more son
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#59 - 2012-12-21 16:38:22 UTC
Ares Desideratus wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Lol. Just because you kill T1 fitted RVB frigs and destroyers in your executioner doesn't mean that Amarr is balanced.

Actually, it means that the Amarr frigates are balanced.

Diesel47 wrote:
The harb is "very inferior" to a ship like the hurricane. Who flies tier2 BC? Idk man. Have you ever ventured into something that isn't hi-sec?

Actually I was just talking about low-sec and the lack of Tier 2 BC compared to Tier 3 these days. It's probably got something to do with Tier 3 BC obsoleting your precious Canes.

Diesel47 wrote:
Amarr cruisers suck gallente ****. Idk what you are talking about.

You don't know what you're talking about yourself either. Isn't any Omen not doing 500 DPS at Vagabond range? Isn't any Maller without 100k EHP?

Diesel47 wrote:
The only thing keeping amarr alive is scorch and you know it.

And the only thing keeping Minmatar alive is Barrage.

And if Caldari weren't so good they wouldn't be as good.

And if I wasn't better than you I'd lose in a fight.


Tanking isn't a valid role. This isn't a wow raid. 100k EHP? What good is it? Just ignore it until the rest of his gang is dead.
500 dps omen only if you shield tank it. And thats only for a minute before your cap runs out Twisted.

You are killing half fitted t1 frigates in RVB in your T2 fitted executioner, I could do the same in a venture. Venture is good pvp ship now huh?

Canes still have a role, so do cyclones, myrms, brutix, and drakes. All the Tier 3 BC are good because CCP made them overpowered. But having one ship (oracle) doesn't make up for the glaring weaknesses the other line of ships have. The only reason the Oracle is any good is because people shield tank it and it uses the BS guns. (amarr medium and small guns need work) It doesn't follow the amarr ship doctrine of being slow and tanky = bad.

deepos
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2012-12-21 16:57:57 UTC
This is a nice thread to promote old and new Amarr ships actually !

Now if we could just disregard the OP entirely, it will definitely be better. I don't think he really wants to understand,

Looking forward for new Amarr BCs!